216 réponses à ce sujet

[Excella Gionne]

Genophage is their biggest concern...you either cure it or don't, but Wrex will always have a mole within STG. EDI was probably high when she was talking about Female Krogan's clutches of eggs...I headcanon it as if it doesn't exist since it makes no sense anyways. Wrex says they would eventually go extinct if it isn't cured due to the war and other losses. What I want to know is how long is a year within the MEU, every planet must have different hour cycles?

[KaiserShep]

Which is why I would have liked a neutral option where the Genophage isn't cured but the Krogan by themselves triumph over it -- which is where I was expecting it to end ever since hearing Wrex's opinion on the matter. I think it would have made for a better conclusion for the Krogan; unfortunately, it does take away Mordin's moment.

 

The problem is that the reaper war prevents the krogan from being able to overcome the effects of the genophage. In ME2, it would be relatively simple enough to manage the clans and the females to reform the krogan and maintain stability to prevent their own demise, but all of that flies out of the window when they're being shipped off to Palaven by the thousands.

[SporkFu]

Genophage is their biggest concern...you either cure it or don't, but Wrex will always have a mole within STG. EDI was probably high when she was talking about Female Krogan's clutches of eggs...I headcanon it as if it doesn't exist since it makes no sense anyways. Wrex says they would eventually go extinct if it isn't cured due to the war and other losses. What I want to know is how long is a year within the MEU, every planet must have different hour cycles?

Something similar to how the Volus invented a galaxy-wide financial sytem with credits.... like Citadel Mean Time, although that wouldn't account for everyone living outside of council space. Of course maybe they all just go along with it, like using thermal clips.

 

The problem is that the reaper war prevents the krogan from being able to overcome the effects of the genophage. In ME2, it would be relatively simple enough to manage the clans and the females to reform the krogan and maintain stability to prevent their own demise, but all of that flies out of the window when they're being shipped off to Palaven by the thousands.

There's that too. Mordin and his team modified the original genophage strain because the krogan were evolving past it, so between that and attrition from the reaper war, would the krogan population base be large enough to evolve past the genophage again? I dunno. 

[Excella Gionne]

Something similar to how the Volus invented a galaxy-wide financial sytem with credits.... like Citadel Mean Time, although that wouldn't account for everyone living outside of council space. Of course maybe they all just go along with it, like using thermal clips.

Well, every planet's distance from their sun is different thus making hours, days, and year cycles different. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Something similar to how the Volus invented a galaxy-wide financial sytem with credits.... like Citadel Mean Time, although that wouldn't account for everyone living outside of council space. Of course maybe they all just go along with it, like using thermal clips.

 

I always assumed that the translators everyone has automatically adjusted the times for everyone else.

[SporkFu]

I always assumed that the translators everyone has automatically adjusted the times for everyone else.

That works for me. 

[Bardox9]

The Genophage isn't something to be triumphed over. The Genophage is not the reason the Krogan race is dwindling in number. The leading cause of death on Tuchanka is death by gunshot. Their own violent nature is what's driving them to extinction. The Genophage only reduces the viable birth rate to a sustainable level. The average krogan can live for a thousand years. The average female can produce up to a thousand eggs in a year. There are over 3 billion Krogan on Tuchanka in ME3. You cure the Genophage and that number jumps into the trillions inside of a year. How does that end well?

 

I can't bring myself to view the Krogan as victims. The Genophage was created and used in response to the Krogan rebellion. When you refuse to control your population and instead ravage the worlds of other races, you don't get to call foul when you lose the fight you started. The Genophage was a horrible punishment, but it is one they earned by slaughtering their way across the galaxy. Which is why, unless I am playing a pure paragon, Mordin's crisis of conscience doesn't move me to cure the genophage.

[SporkFu]

There weren't trillions of krogan before the genophage either. Just because the genophage is cured, they're not all going to become peace-loving hippies... let me pause for a moment to get that visual out of my head.....

 

There. Phew. 

 

There might be a population explosion for awhile, but despite my wishes to the contrary, a lot of the krogan probably aren't going to change their ways. In other words, krogan gonna krogan. Curing the genophage just means that every krogan death no longer brings them one step closer to extinction. 

[Vigilant111]

I wouldn't call it an 180, first of all, the Genophage was a political decision made by the Council, second of all it is pretty clear Mordin recognized the moral dilemmas very early on, but at the time of krogan rebellion, these moral standards were satisfied as the situation was growing desperate

 

The decision to cure the Genophage is also political, the sole purpose of such an undertaking is to gain krogan support, altruism is supplementary

[Excella Gionne]

The Genophage isn't something to be triumphed over. The Genophage is not the reason the Krogan race is dwindling in number. The leading cause of death on Tuchanka is death by gunshot. Their own violent nature is what's driving them to extinction. The Genophage only reduces the viable birth rate to a sustainable level. The average krogan can live for a thousand years. The average female can produce up to a thousand eggs in a year. There are over 3 billion Krogan on Tuchanka in ME3. You cure the Genophage and that number jumps into the trillions inside of a year. How does that end well?

 

I can't bring myself to view the Krogan as victims. The Genophage was created and used in response to the Krogan rebellion. When you refuse to control your population and instead ravage the worlds of other races, you don't get to call foul when you lose the fight you started. The Genophage was a horrible punishment, but it is one they earned by slaughtering their way across the galaxy. Which is why, unless I am playing a pure paragon, Mordin's crisis of conscience doesn't move me to cure the genophage.

It's entirely the Salarians fault for uplifting them from the Stone age. Desperate or not at the time, they paid the price with the Krogan Rebellions. Krogans are warriors with pride and honor, and it's in their nature, and due to Krogans living long lives evolution is slow for them in terms of logic(I don't know how to actually word it). The Genophage may have been justified, but the modified Genophage is completely unethical--but the Genophage itself is unethical in its own standards. After the Genophage and the demilitarization of Aralakh, Krogans went to war with one another but this time with Nuclear weapons and not with conventional blades. Tuchanka doesn't have the resources to actually produce a cure, and because of their nature, they want to fight, therefore, Nuclear War was inevitable. Even if they did find a cure, Salarians will just come back to undo it. Before their uplifting, they managed to keep their numbers decent without the severe overpopulation...

 

I don't really care what Mordin says when he's trying to not show his emotions of guilt within his Loyalty mission, 'cause he is wrong to an extent. Every child that was meant to be born, but killed by a synthetic disease is still considered killing....

[Excella Gionne]

There weren't trillions of krogan before the genophage either. Just because the genophage is cured, they're not all going to become peace-loving hippies... let me pause for a moment to get that visual out of my head.....

 

There. Phew. 

 

There might be a population explosion for awhile, but despite my wishes to the contrary, a lot of the krogan probably aren't going to change their ways. In other words, krogan gonna krogan. Curing the genophage just means that every krogan death no longer brings them one step closer to extinction. 

Krogans value status, and with Wrex being the Leader of Urdnot and one of the heroes that put an end to the Genophage, he's practically hero to them. Females of their clans do separate themselves from the men, and because Wrex made the Female clans into one as suggested by the Female Clan leaders themselves, Wrex is basically who they all want which is why he's like "Everyone on Tuchanka wants a piece of me!". 

[SporkFu]

Krogans value status, and with Wrex being the Leader of Urdnot and one of the heroes that put an end to the Genophage, he's practically hero to them. Females of their clans do separate themselves from the men, and because Wrex made the Female clans into one as suggested by the Female Clan leaders themselves, Wrex is basically who they all want which is why he's like "Everyone on Tuchanka wants a piece of me!". 

I've posted on this in other threads too. I do agree, Wrex is a hero, a legend now, at least among the krogan, and for Eve's part in the cure, she is also a legend. I like to think that her status will almost become religious in nature. She knows her people, their nature, and how to speak to them and inspire them ...  of course this is all speculation... but it's what I would like to see happen. She will gain converts by the thousands. And Wrex too, and he will keep the krogan in line. And why? Because Grunt is in his clan. 

 

I know this sounds like I'm contradicting myself, but that's why I added "despite my wishes" to my last post. I think back to what Wrex said in ME1 about being given a choice, a krogan will choose fighting and "it's just who we are, Shepard." Wrex knows his people too. The krogan are what they are, and they've always been that way. I do think Wrex and Eve can change things, but I don't think it will be very easy, and I don't think it will happen very quickly. 

[Excella Gionne]

I've posted on this in other threads too. I do agree, Wrex is a hero, a legend now, at least among the krogan, and for Eve's part in the cure, she is also a legend. I like to think that her status will almost become religious in nature. She knows her people, their nature, and how to speak to them and inspire them ...  of course this is all speculation... but it's what I would like to see happen. She will gain converts by the thousands. And Wrex too, and he will keep the krogan in line. And why? Because Grunt is in his clan. 

 

I know this sounds like I'm contradicting myself, but that's why I added "despite my wishes" to my last post. I think back to what Wrex said in ME1 about being given a choice, a krogan will choose fighting and "it's just who we are, Shepard." Wrex knows his people too. The krogan are what they are, and they've always been that way. I do think Wrex and Eve can change things, but I don't think it will be very easy, and I don't think it will happen very quickly. 

It's one of those decisions where you must live with the consequences too. I do have my doubts, but I'm willing to chance it if the Krogans are ready for it. Wrex does state his concern on what other kind of disease can be inflicted upon them that is more worse than the Genophage should his people go to war with the galaxy, even if you cure the Genophage, the Krogans are still lacking in warships and such material to build anything war-like 'cause of their strained resources and their demilitarized nebula. You could say that the council will be keeping a very close eye on the Krogans after the war....Wreav's plan is flawed too since he can't do anything with a cured genophage if he can't even go off planet.

[SporkFu]

It's one of those decisions where you must live with the consequences too. I do have my doubts, but I'm willing to chance it if the Krogans are ready for it. Wrex does state his concern on what other kind of disease can be inflicted upon them that is more worse than the Genophage should his people go to war with the galaxy, even if you cure the Genophage, the Krogans are still lacking in warships and such material to build anything war-like 'cause of their strained resources and their demilitarized nebula. You could say that the council will be keeping a very close eye on the Krogans after the war....Wreav's plan is flawed too since he can't do anything with a cured genophage if he can't even go off planet.

Exactly. The galaxy will have to live with the consequences of a genophage cure, but like shep says to the dalatrass, the krogan have to be given that chance. Wrex and Eve will do their best to make sure the krogan are ready for it. My main concern is more about what the krogan will do amongst themselves than what they will do to the rest of the galaxy, especially once the post-cure goodwill wears off. I think there will always be some who hold on to old grudges, and won't stop fighting. 

 

Thing about it is, too... if the krogan did want to start some crap out there beyond their own planet, they're gonna have allies now. They saved the elcor, and the turians even. Getting their hands on some warships or at least hitching a ride somewhere may be easier than anyone thinks. I could see a clever krogan, like Wreav, getting his hands on a few warships somehow, raiding other planets, gaining resources, and the krogan 'government'  under Wrex and Eve, would have to deny any association with it, to avoid any reprisals from the council. These krogan would be like pirates. Then Grunt would have to go kick their asses, heh. 

[Excella Gionne]

Exactly. The galaxy will have to live with the consequences of a genophage cure, but like shep says to the dalatrass, the krogan have to be given that chance. Wrex and Eve will do their best to make sure the krogan are ready for it. My main concern is more about what the krogan will do amongst themselves than what they will do to the rest of the galaxy, especially once the post-cure goodwill wears off. I think there will always be some who hold on to old grudges, and won't stop fighting. 

 

Thing about it is, too... if the krogan did want to start some crap out there beyond their own planet, they're gonna have allies now. They saved the elcor, and the turians even. Getting their hands on some warships or at least hitching a ride somewhere may be easier than anyone thinks. I could see a clever krogan, like Wreav, getting his hands on a few warships somehow, raiding other planets, gaining resources, and the krogan 'government'  under Wrex and Eve, would have to deny any association with it, to avoid any reprisals from the council. These krogan would be like pirates. Then Grunt would have to go kick their asses, heh. 

Well, Volus, Elcor, and Turians, but especially Volus and Elcor do not want to hurt their chances of being inducted into the council by making brash decisions that could endanger the galaxy. Wrex is technically Tuchanka's only hope for anything beyond the planet itself. 

[SporkFu]

Well, Volus, Elcor, and Turians, but especially Volus and Elcor do not want to hurt their chances of being inducted into the council by making brash decisions that could endanger the galaxy. Wrex is technically Tuchanka's only hope for anything beyond the planet itself. 

Yep, you could be right. Personally I don't think anyone will want to entertain any ideas of endangering the galaxy for quite awhile after coming so close to losing everything. But there's always crazies out there, and post-reaper war will be a perfect time for them to rise. God, I'm looking forward to ME4. 

[Excella Gionne]

Yep, you could be right. Personally I don't think anyone will want to entertain any ideas of endangering the galaxy for quite awhile after coming so close to losing everything. But there's always crazies out there, and post-reaper war will be a perfect time for them to rise. God, I'm looking forward to ME4.

I just hope the new ME will not be as messy...

[Daemul]

What a wonderful case of generalization. Replace "krogan" with "jews", "blacks", "latino's", ... It's really not more advanced than other racist rantings.

 

 

This is why we can't have nice things. 

[Daemul]

Which is why I would have liked a neutral option where the Genophage isn't cured but the Krogan by themselves triumph over it -- which is where I was expecting it to end ever since hearing Wrex's opinion on the matter. I think it would have made for a better conclusion for the Krogan; unfortunately, it does take away Mordin's moment.

Something like this is actually possible to achieve in game and is something that I sometimes do. I sabotage the genophage, kill shoot Mordin, shoot Wrex, lose Clan Urdnot, then Eve rallies the rest of the Krogan(without Urdnot of course) to keep helping in the war, then at the decision chamber pick synthesis, and the slides and EDI's voice over imply that the Krogan eventually managed to find their way around the Genophage and started rebuilding their civilization(the wiki says Synthesis cures the genophage but this is wrong, the Krogan eventually conquer it themselves).

 

I have no idea why the Krogan only manage to conquer the genophage in Synthesis though, you'd think that the same thing would be possible in Control with the Reapers still around to help, but nope, they die out. 

[Comrade Wakizashi]

That's a strawman argument.

 

By your theory, humanity would also have no right to exist. Just a brief glance on human history and our general impact on the planet would be enough to nconclude that the human species should be annihilated, by your reasoning.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

 

This is why we can't have nice things. 

Why is racism bad in one case and acceptable in the other, in your view? Seriously, I wonder what rational arguments one can give for calling for the annihilation of an entire species.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Why is racism bad in one case and acceptable in the other, in your view? Seriously, I wonder what rational arguments one can give for calling for the annihilation of an entire species.

 

Said species is genetically inclined to be violent and seek carnage against other races out of their own sense of racism. Every time you give them a chance, they throw it back in your face.

 

Seems pretty rational to me. Then again, it also comes down to how you define it: I do believe in such a thing as rational racism.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

By your theory, humanity would also have no right to exist. Just a brief glance on human history and our general impact on the planet would be enough to nconclude that the human species should be annihilated, by your reasoning.

 

That's not my reasoning. That's the straw man you made up.

 

My reasoning is said in the post above.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I wouldn't call it an 180, first of all, the Genophage was a political decision made by the Council, second of all it is pretty clear Mordin recognized the moral dilemmas very early on, but at the time of krogan rebellion, these moral standards were satisfied as the situation was growing desperate

 

The decision to cure the Genophage is also political, the sole purpose of such an undertaking is to gain krogan support, altruism is supplementary

 

This is so wrong that I couldnt ignore it. It is a 180. Mordin justified his work on the Genophage modification all the way to the very end until you call him on it at the Shroud Tower. Just because he recognized the moral and ethical dilemmas involved in his work, doesnt mean that he'd stop justifying it.

[AlanC9]

Something like this is actually possible to achieve in game and is something that I sometimes do. I sabotage the genophage, kill shoot Mordin, shoot Wrex, lose Clan Urdnot, then Eve rallies the rest of the Krogan(without Urdnot of course) to keep helping in the war, then at the decision chamber pick synthesis, and the slides and EDI's voice over imply that the Krogan eventually managed to find their way around the Genophage and started rebuilding their civilization(the wiki says Synthesis cures the genophage but this is wrong, the Krogan eventually conquer it themselves).
 
I have no idea why the Krogan only manage to conquer the genophage in Synthesis though, you'd think that the same thing would be possible in Control with the Reapers still around to help, but nope, they die out.

Wow. I had no idea that's how sabotaging the cure played out in Synthesis. Someone should probably put this on the wiki, which is pretty weak on EC consequences.