Said species is genetically inclined to be violent and seek carnage against other races out of their own sense of racism. Every time you give them a chance, they throw it back in your face.
That's not my reasoning. That's the straw man you made up.
My reasoning is said in the post above.
Your reasoning is that you claim to know a certain genetic "destiny" of an entire species of living organisms, and use it to call for a complete and total genocide against the species itself. Hereby totally ignoring the differences between different specimens of sais species. I don't see how this is in any way, shape or form morally justifiable.
This is so wrong that I couldnt ignore it. It is a 180. Mordin justified his work on the Genophage modification all the way to the very end until you call him on it at the Shroud Tower. Just because he recognized the moral and ethical dilemmas involved in his work, doesnt mean that he'd stop justifying it.
Mordin does support ending the genophage already before the Shroud Tower. The fact that he still believes he did the right thing before by modifying the genophage doesn't exclude the fact that he believes the time is right to end it in ME3. Already on the Normandy in ME3 he is clearly intending to cure the genophage. It's not as if he suddenly changes opinions at the Shroud Tower.
Every time they've been given a chance? How many chances have there been?
Exactly. The krogan have been given only one chance by the galactic community, and they did fail there indeed. Does this mean they should be doomed for all eternity because of it? I don't think so. Especially if you consider it was the salarians who messed up in the first place, by abusing their "lifting" of the krogan for military means and giving them highly destructive weaponry and training long before the species was ready for it again.
I seem to remember that while on the Normandy, Mordin has a very practical POV regarding the genophage cure. He talks along the lines of it being necessary because of the reapers. Without it there is no alliance between the krogan and turians. On the other hand, he is Wrex's mole on Sur'Kesh, and he says there that he encouraged political pressure to free the females.
I seem to remember that while on the Normandy, Mordin has a very practical POV regarding the genophage cure. He talks along the lines of it being necessary because of the reapers. Without it there is no alliance between the krogan and turians. On the other hand, he is Wrex's mole on Sur'Kesh, and he says there that he encouraged political pressure to free the females.
That's why I think he isn't doing it because of the alliance -- he set things into motion before the idea even existed. Which meant that in the course of less than 6 months he apparently had this epiphany, independent of whether or not he saw the events on Tuchunka, or whether or not Shepard reaffirmed his beliefs.
A lot of things in the series are like that. Really, that's how it is in pretty much any game with choices.
That's why I think he isn't doing it because of the alliance -- he set things into motion before the idea even existed. Which meant that in the course of less than 6 months he apparently had this epiphany, independent of whether or not he saw the events on Tuchunka, or whether or not Shepard reaffirmed his beliefs.
In ME2 I remember him saying as well that he processed all the emotional impact of his LM very quickly because that's how salarians work, and that Maelon had trouble doing that, which is why he was helping the krogan now. Anyway, he put it all aside until after the collectors were dealt with because they were the immediate problem.
His practicality on the Normandy could have been a similar thing, he just wanted everyone to shut up arguing about the genophage, and everyone's role in it. The reapers had to be dealt with, hence the krogan-turian alliance had to be forged. Everything else was beside the point, from his POV.
Mordin does support ending the genophage already before the Shroud Tower. The fact that he still believes he did the right thing before by modifying the genophage doesn't exclude the fact that he believes the time is right to end it in ME3. Already on the Normandy in ME3 he is clearly intending to cure the genophage. It's not as if he suddenly changes opinions at the Shroud Tower.
Wrong again. Mordin's reasons for curing the Genophage are based on the same logical rationality that he has ALWAYS used. His support for the cure is completely irrelevant for that reason alone. Nothing from the conversations on the Normandy ever insinuates he now believes he made a mistake in taking part in the modification project. In fact, he still continues to justify his role in the project as something that was right for the circumstances at that time. That is the exact justification he uses for working on the cure, its right for the circumstances at that time. His admission that he did make a mistake is a 180 and one that comes completely out of left field with its timing.
I seem to remember that while on the Normandy, Mordin has a very practical POV regarding the genophage cure. He talks along the lines of it being necessary because of the reapers. Without it there is no alliance between the krogan and turians. On the other hand, he is Wrex's mole on Sur'Kesh, and he says there that he encouraged political pressure to free the females.
That pretty much is the stance he takes while on the Normandy, and his hand in revealing the lab on Sur'kesh probably came from the fact that he knew the Krogan were needed for the Reaper War.
Wrong again. Mordin's reasons for curing the Genophage are based on the same logical rationality that he has ALWAYS used. His support for the cure is completely irrelevant for that reason alone. Nothing from the conversations on the Normandy ever insinuates he now believes he made a mistake in taking part in the modification project. In fact, he still continues to justify his role in the project as something that was right for the circumstances at that time. That is the exact justification he uses for working on the cure, its right for the circumstances at that time. His admission that he did make a mistake is a 180 and one that comes completely out of left field with its timing.
That pretty much is the stance he takes while on the Normandy, and his hand in revealing the lab on Sur'kesh probably came from the fact that he knew the Krogan were needed for the Reaper War.
Yeah, could be. Wrex/Wreav probably wouldn't have demanded a cure if he didn't know there was a way to make it happen. Of course, if Wrex's plan to demand a cure was in motion before the reaper invasion began, then that would suggest Mordin had other motivations for telling him about the females. Remember that when you first arrive on Sur'Kesh Wrex still believes all the females are alive.
Your reasoning is that you claim to know a certain genetic "destiny" of an entire species of living organisms, and use it to call for a complete and total genocide against the species itself. Hereby totally ignoring the differences between different specimens of sais species. I don't see how this is in any way, shape or form morally justifiable.
For starters, I don't bother justifying things 'morally' in a conventional sense, since morals are subjective and not universal. What I consider to be moral is a lot different from what you consider to be moral. If I'm acting, it's because I consider it moral to act.
Looking for said individuals is more or less counterproductive. The genophage itself is a chance the Krogan blew. They had the ability to maintain a viable population with it active in their genealogy, and they let their darker nature get the better of them. Practically, they aren't worth keeping around due to their genetic propensity for insanity, psychopathy, psychosis, and carnage. To be frank, I *do* know what traits are desirable in Krogan. Their history has dictated that the most violent survive. While understandable, it comes into conflict with a more civilized galaxy. They're barbarians. They won't change. Wiping them out saves us a lot of trouble. I'm not going to take a chance that they might play fair based on goodwill. As Shepard said to the Dalatrass "You can't condemn an entire species to extinction based on what might happen". To that, I say that you can't award existence to an entire species (that have routinely proven otherwise) to a species based on what might happen.
It must be very troubling for you, knowing how laughably ineffective an explanation of 'I don't bother to justify myself morally" would be in any real life situation.
For starters, I don't bother justifying things 'morally' in a conventional sense, since morals are subjective and not universal. What I consider to be moral is a lot different from what you consider to be moral. If I'm acting, it's because I consider it moral to act.
Looking for said individuals is more or less counterproductive. The genophage itself is a chance the Krogan blew. They had the ability to maintain a viable population with it active in their genealogy, and they let their darker nature get the better of them. Practically, they aren't worth keeping around due to their genetic propensity for insanity, psychopathy, psychosis, and carnage. To be frank, I *do* know what traits are desirable in Krogan. Their history has dictated that the most violent survive. While understandable, it comes into conflict with a more civilized galaxy. They're barbarians. They won't change. Wiping them out saves us a lot of trouble. I'm not going to take a chance that they might play fair based on goodwill. As Shepard said to the Dalatrass "You can't condemn an entire species to extinction based on what might happen". To that, I say that you can't award existence to an entire species (that have routinely proven otherwise) to a species based on what might happen.
And as I said, given the current military capabilities of the krogan, interdicting them to the world(s) of your own choosing is quite simple. They have no fleets of their own. And if they tried to build one, there's no less than four Council races willing and able to squash them.
Is it so much trouble to quarantine them that extermination is the only option on the table? I agree that they're predisposed to violence, unlikely to play well with others, but also demilitarized and incapable of spreading - i.e. not a viable threat. If they're destined to destroy themselves, let them do it in isolation. If on the off-chance their civilization stabilizes, leave the door open for gradual integration into galactic society.For starters, I don't bother justifying things 'morally' in a conventional sense, since morals are subjective and not universal. What I consider to be moral is a lot different from what you consider to be moral. If I'm acting, it's because I consider it moral to act.
Looking for said individuals is more or less counterproductive. The genophage itself is a chance the Krogan blew. They had the ability to maintain a viable population with it active in their genealogy, and they let their darker nature get the better of them. Practically, they aren't worth keeping around due to their genetic propensity for insanity, psychopathy, psychosis, and carnage. To be frank, I *do* know what traits are desirable in Krogan. Their history has dictated that the most violent survive. While understandable, it comes into conflict with a more civilized galaxy. They're barbarians. They won't change. Wiping them out saves us a lot of trouble. I'm not going to take a chance that they might play fair based on goodwill. As Shepard said to the Dalatrass "You can't condemn an entire species to extinction based on what might happen". To that, I say that you can't award existence to an entire species (that have routinely proven otherwise) to a species based on what might happen.
There's some reason to believe that the krogan are more than simply violent brutes. They have a general violent, expansionist, conquering mentality but it's not completely universal, one-dimensional, and utterly dominant over everything else. Whilst they certainly developed technologically far faster than they did socially, with disastrous consequences, look at a few other hints - the codex says they used to regard blood rage as something posessed only by dangerous lunatics, for example. I've also noticed a few examples of blunt eloquence. They're not mindless brutes, they just prefer using their heads for headbutting rather than thinking most of the time. However, they could change, if their society can manage to enact the change without being completely self-destructive. I think that Mordin saw that, even though his main motivation quite probably was "Needed for immediate problem."
For the record, I abandon the (real) Rachni queen in my canon playthrough. She's been physically bound to Reaper tech pumping out ravagers for them for God knows how long, and by her own admission her telepathy let the Reapers hone in on her location as though she were holding a torch. She's too much of an indoctrination risk and threatens to draw the Reapers anywhere we could relocate her (Hackett, the ******, sends Rachni to the Crucible). That she's the last of her kind does not enter the equation.
I don't shy away from extinction when left with no alternative. I simply question its necessity in the case of the Krogan.
My Paragade splits the difference on this. Save the Queen and still have Grunt and a (head-canon) rebuilt Aralakh Company for maximum gain since Grunt is more than proven as a leader of troops in example and ability, and the offer for aid from the Rachni is still too tempting to pass up. Then again, this only works because of metagaming and knowing that Grunt makes up the bulk of Aralakh's assets in the form of the two upgrades.
Renegon aint even gonna consider the risk the Queen poses after she got caught.
The Krogan have given me no reason to cure them. I don't care what Wrex or Eve have to say. How about hearing what other Krogan have to say?
In the time the genophage has been implemented, the Krogan have shown no signs that they should have a cure. Why couldn't they make the best of it by rebuilding their planet and make life a little easier for themselves? All they care about is being sold as merceneries or killing each other.
If you cure the genophage and confine the Krogan to their own system after the war, they have a population explosion that is beyond belief on a planet that cannot sustain it. Starvation and their own wars will control the population. If you don't cure it, the losses during the war, the slide shows them condemned to extinction. Bioware gave us a broken species. It's a damned if you do. Damned if you don't situation. There is no solution.
The Krogan have given me no reason to cure them. I don't care what Wrex or Eve have to say. How about hearing what other Krogan have to say?
In the time the genophage has been implemented, the Krogan have shown no signs that they should have a cure. Why couldn't they make the best of it by rebuilding their planet and make life a little easier for themselves? All they care about is being sold as merceneries or killing each other.
Did you stop and think that most Krogan thought like that because they never believed they would have a future because of the Genophage?
Did you stop and think that most Krogan thought like that because they never believed they would have a future because of the Genophage?
Which is said by pretty much every Krogan in the game with more than a few lines.
Did you stop and think that most Krogan thought like that because they never believed they would have a future because of the Genophage?
So they just sit around feeling sorry for themselves instead of doing anything about it? Is that what you would do?
Retour en haut