43 réponses à ce sujet

[Lunaxys]

Assuming we are playing a Martyr canon (which is the default canon according to BioWare), Leliana, at the end of DA II should not claim that she is searching for the Warden-Commander of Amaranthine. But people indicate that she does, so let's play with that.

 

We can assume that with the events of the Awakening, this title would be given to the Orlesian Grey Warden that has crossed borders in the wake of Origin Warden's death, to rebuild Vigil's Keep.

 

However,

"The Divine desperately seeks to put an end to the conflict, and assigned those Seekers remaining loyal to her to track down the only two people in all Thedas who may have the power and influence to put an end to the conflict. One of her agents, Leliana, was sent to track down one of them, the Warden-Commander of Ferelden.

Cassandra Pentaghast was also sent to find Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall." - Mage-Templar War, Dragon Age Wiki

 

I do not see how the Orlesian Warden would have ANY influence over any mages or templars for the War to sway and come to an end. Hawke, I understand, being the poster boy for either the mages' freedom or oppression, but the Awakening storyboard does not elicit any magnanimous activity through which the Orlesian Warden can even become remotely famous, let alone influence the entirety of Thedas (I mean, most normal people do not even know the Architect and/or the Mother even exist). Most parallel the Orlesian to Duncan (as in someone who isn't famed for Blight, but still rebuilding the Wardens in Ferelden), and outside the "leaders" of Ferelden, no single individual knows who Duncan is and only carries the weight of a "Grey Warden" as a title and not a person.

 

Moreover, "If the Warden-Commander is from Orlais, the Warden can serve as Warden Commander at Vigil's Keep for a time before finally being called by the Order to the Grey Warden headquarters at Weisshaupt. Rumor has it that there is a new Blight there. The Warden never returns to Vigil's Keep again." - Epilogue (Awakening), Dragon Age Wiki.

 

That is the finale of the Orlesian Commander. Are we claiming his fame came from that Blight? But there are no records of the sixth blight, so this doesn't compute.

 

I do not see how searching for the Orlesian Warden makes sense in this case; as he has no relevance to the mage-templar war (if that is the case, we might as well get input from ALL Grey Wardens, but they don't.)

 

Even a Origin Warden's influence is a bit sketchy; though the links are generally more sturdy - has mages/templars in party through his adventure through the Fifth Blight, he knows both sides, and is the epitome of heroism.

(More brownie points if he was a mage; heck an elf mage makes even more sense as this kinda brings two under-appreciated clusters and gives them hope - planting the seeds for the rebellion of Elves and Mages. In effect, his heroism to save the Blight brought him into the spotlight and actually caused more political wars, though the reasons for these start much latter)

 

In effect, the only story that can bridge it all is the Hero of Ferelden lives after slaying the Archdemon (making him technically NOT the true hero since someone else sacrificed themselves and/or he let the old God live through a baby) and then disappears at the end of Awakening for whatever reason (and if you want to marry in Witch Hunt, which supposedly takes after Awakening, then THE ONLY disappearance that makes sense is either romance with Morrigan or vanishes for no reason (either by serving the crown, marriage to Anora, or just poof --- no other romance ending makes sense).

 

Addendum: Taking the last point I made, there are two ways he could've disappeared wrt Witch Hunt: moving through the Eluvian or following up on the "gift of great interest" from Morrigan. I would assume the latter makes more sense since Morrigan reappears 9:37 but the Warden does not. One can make a claim that he is with his child, but... bleh. All other endings for Witch Hunt makes zero sense, even the "betrayal" part (in that why would you stab her for just leaving you on the final battle when she has been there with you for EVERYTHING ELSE; the stabbing is excessive).

 

The gift of great interest could undoubtedly be the reason why the Warden has vanished --- Flemeth, taint, w.e it is.

I am going to take a stab at it and assume its Flemeth (because Morrigan enforces it is she who is the evil, not her) --- and this kinda helps out DA:II Hawke's disappearance as well.

 

Does that make sense or am I missing some key story point here?

I don't understand how the canon makes sense with DA2 finale.

 

I just want to make a story arc from DA:O - DA:II that makes complete sense and sets itself up for DA:I.

I played the games before, but never cared about story - want to make sure I can roleplay a good setup in.

 

[The Night Haunter]

I'm pretty sure that's just a bug. If the Hero of Ferelden died then I'm sure that Leliana wasn't searching for him/her.

 

That's why Bio is implementing DA Keep, to make this whole import mess a lot easier and more reliable.

[Chibi Elemental]

I'm pretty sure that's just a bug. If the Hero of Ferelden died then I'm sure that Leliana wasn't searching for him/her.

 

That's why Bio is implementing DA Keep, to make this whole import mess a lot easier and more reliable.

 

And if they can't get keep imports to work making you rebuild your save via cool movies! 

[Wolfen09]

the warden from orlais didnt gain his fame from another blight, he gained it by being able to stop the remaining darkspawn...  not as famous as a blight, but enough to garner attention...  plus being somewhat known and famous will give other factions pause, the warden of orlais may not have had anything to do with mages or templars, but is well known enough to possibly be a go between for peace....

[Devtek]

Why would they be a go between for peace? You can wipe out Amaranthine and have the whole region pissed and suspicious of Wardens. You can suppress hungry protesters with brutality. You can kill your own recruits.

 

In which case they would be Infamous instead of famous...and would presumably be wanted to stay our of any conflict because the influence they could bring towards the conflict on behalf of the wardens could be counter productive. Still a good reason to look for him/her ?

[Wolfen09]

if someone who was that bad said sit down shut up and get along, i think they would listen.....  its more of who could possibly beat both sides down if all hell breaks loose

[Wolfen09]

not really, in reality the wardens are no stronger than your average soldier....  however, the hero of ferelden and the warden commander are special cause they are not normal and can beat back the horde themselves pretty much.

[DontWakeTheBear]

Why would they be a go between for peace? You can wipe out Amaranthine and have the whole region pissed and suspicious of Wardens. You can suppress hungry protesters with brutality. You can kill your own recruits.

It's called aggressive negotiations, people are more likely to sit down, shut up, and listen to what you have to say if you have a reputation for getting things done.

 

As far as leaders go the Hero would have the biggest pull (especially if he's both the Hero and Warden Commander) since he's a living legend and most people would probably turn and run at the prospect of fight him, Hawk would have the next best with pull as both a Champion and directly involved in the Mage/Templar conflict, and the Orlesian Commander would be third up: while lacking the legends of the other two, he (or she) will have proven themself as an effective leader who knows how to both run an organization and kill things that need killing during the Mother/Architect crisis so while people might not run in fear of him (or her) at least they'd have a competent leader whose proven themself.

[Exaltation]

It's possible that the Divine needed a military support,because she no longer had influence over the Magi Circles/Templars,that's why she sought the Warden-Commander,as Wardens would presumably be "neutral".

[Al Foley]

It's called aggressive negotiations, people are more likely to sit down, shut up, and listen to what you have to say if you have a reputation for getting things done.

 

As far as leaders go the Hero would have the biggest pull (especially if he's both the Hero and Warden Commander) since he's a living legend and most people would probably turn and run at the prospect of fight him, Hawk would have the next best with pull as both a Champion and directly involved in the Mage/Templar conflict, and the Orlesian Commander would be third up: while lacking the legends of the other two, he (or she) will have proven themself as an effective leader who knows how to both run an organization and kill things that need killing during the Mother/Architect crisis so while people might not run in fear of him (or her) at least they'd have a competent leader whose proven themself.

I don't know, can we say with certainty that Hawke would have 'pull'.  Yes, Cassandra was looking for the dear old Champion but she also seemed to be on more of a fact finding mission then anything else.  Gaining perspective on how the events began in Kirkwall and how the catalyst for the current conflict began.  Maybe they believe Hawke can stop it?  I doubt it though personally considering Hawke may not have that much pull beyond the Free Marches.  One of the negatives of having the game take place in one city. 

[Wolfen09]

if your warden survived, maybe they are looking for him/her for their perspective on the mage tower issue that happened in origins, but most likely not because the cannon doesnt have them alive

[Wolfen09]

true, but the fact still remains that the chantry is looking for a hammer, and the inquisition was the last solution

[DontWakeTheBear]

I don't know, can we say with certainty that Hawke would have 'pull'.  Yes, Cassandra was looking for the dear old Champion but she also seemed to be on more of a fact finding mission then anything else.  Gaining perspective on how the events began in Kirkwall and how the catalyst for the current conflict began.  Maybe they believe Hawke can stop it?  I doubt it though personally considering Hawke may not have that much pull beyond the Free Marches.  One of the negatives of having the game take place in one city. 

Actually we can. If Hawk sided with the mages then he was responsible for saving the Kirkwall mages there from being completely destroyed which would go a long way towards making other mages willing to hear him out. If he sided with the Templar's then he earned the loyalty of the Kirkwall Templar's and would likely be someone the Templar's would be willing to listen to. This is the point that Cassandra brings up at the end of the game.  Of course you have the problem of only having the support of one side and the animosity of the other, but it's a starting point which is better than our Inquisitor will get.

[Todd23]

I'm pretty sure that's just a bug. If the Hero of Ferelden died then I'm sure that Leliana wasn't searching for him/her.

That's why Bio is implementing DA Keep, to make this whole import mess a lot easier and more reliable.

She never explicitly says she's looking for the warden. Cassandra says Hawke is gone just like the warden and Leliana says that it's not a coincidence. Whether or not your warden lives, dies, gos through the eluvian, or anything.

[The Night Haunter]

That's probably the saddest thing to me. I was growing to like Hawke (more than the Warden) and looking forward to seeing his/her role in future negotiations or conflicts. That the Chantry has resorted to it's "last solution" is not good news.

 

As it is, Hawke seems pretty minor now. The strength of DA2's story is more personal.. the family stuff. And the loss related to that. Hawke doesn't mean anything politically. Even in Asunder, it's Anders that gets talked about. Not Hawke.

Well, in a book they can't talk about a PC because that would seem like enforcing a 'canon' scenario, which Bio wishes to avoid. Whereas Anders is always a douche and always murders a bunch of chanters to get back at the Templars (makes sense, huh?), so his role is always at least moderately well defined, no matter your personal playthrough.

[Al Foley]

That's probably the saddest thing to me. I was growing to like Hawke (more than the Warden) and looking forward to seeing his/her role in future negotiations or conflicts. That the Chantry has resorted to it's "last solution" is not good news.

 

As it is, Hawke seems pretty minor now. The strength of DA2's story is more personal.. the family stuff. And the loss related to that. Hawke doesn't mean anything politically. Even in Asunder, it's Anders that gets talked about. Not Hawke.

I agree about the family stuff, which I liked.  But I do think Hawke does have some importance.  Maybe not in the way that they can effect the negotiations, but clearly they were an eye witness to the starting event. 

Actually we can. If Hawk sided with the mages then he was responsible for saving the Kirkwall mages there from being completely destroyed which would go a long way towards making other mages willing to hear him out. If he sided with the Templar's then he earned the loyalty of the Kirkwall Templar's and would likely be someone the Templar's would be willing to listen to. This is the point that Cassandra brings up at the end of the game.  Of course you have the problem of only having the support of one side and the animosity of the other, but it's a starting point which is better than our Inquisitor will get.

But to me that would be even worse because Hawke is a compromised non neutral party.  Which is not exactly the best place to have a negotiation at.  The Warden is, at least in this case, a neutral party in the whole mess and is a widly regarded hero. 

 

Unless the Chantry suspects there are other powers behind these events and they just want Hawke/ The Warden to try and piece together what is causing the chaos, and are not interested in either ones negotiating prowess.  Which could also explain the interest in the 'Orlesian Warden'.

[Wolfen09]

Good catch. That's what I'd like to know more about. I wonder if her request is both professional and personal. Would at least add some spice to that origin (because otherwise, the Orlesian doesn't have much backstory like the others). Part of the appeal of the player character in DAO was the origin. This is what players end up talking more about than the Warden title. Be it Cousland, Aeducan, Dalish, CE, etc..

 

see this is why i dont understand why they made the sacrifice the cannon...  the orlesian warden just feels like a filler character cause they realized they screwed up when they made awakening saying oh yeah our character died, well wtf do we do now