94 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So Hespith made it all up?

No, she just sang in vague enough terms that she could mean a number of things. 

[KaiserShep]

The other races indeed serve as a host for the darkspawn. They can only replenish their numbers by abducting the females of other races. That fits the definition of parasite perfectly.

Hespith's chant was not that vague at all, unless "in her mouth they spew" means that the darkspawn served their victims tea. Describing someone eating the face of another is kinda clear. As a sodding bell.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Their isolated state would become unlivable. That's the point. The darkspawn, by their very existence, are walking, talking biological weapons. They can't be anything other than that.

 

Not to mention that, again, the idea of a darkspawn state requires them to be pacifist to such a level that it would be comically utopian. They'd need to have a society that's completely violence free. Not just in terms of foreign wars, but murder. If the darkspawn have murders, their numbers go down. And that's ignoring accidents.

Which, again, leads them to require finding women to rape and mutate into broodmothers.

And? So they live in a nuclear wasteland-like environment. As long as they don't spread it, I don't care. We change the environment to suit our needs. They do the same. 

 

The only time we ever saw violence against themselves was a civil war led by an insane Broodmother who wanted to hear the Old Gods. No Old Gods, no longing.

And again, no clear evidence they rape. 

 

 

I'm not saying the dwarves are right. I'm saying that the dwarves won't just let things go because the darkspawn promise to play nice. IRL we have a lot of serious cycles of violence we can break because of these historical hatreds. Since dwarves are going to kill darkspawn, the darkspawn have a problem: slowly allow their numbers to decline over generation on a slow grind to extiction or reproduce. And their reproduction is just plan vile.

 

The other problem, like I said, is that darkspawn have shown to have large groups that aren't moral. So what's the response going to be when horrible rape abominations burn villages to kidnap women to mutate? Even if they were a sovereign state, their method of reproduction requires a declaration of war.

If the Dwarves break the peace treaty, they'll suffer the consequences of their actions. Just like in any other situation. 

As long as their numbers decrease at a slower or equal rate as their current Broodmothers produce them, there is no need for more of them. 

 

 

The bold and underlined definition. The darkspawn need the use of a foreign species that they mutate and kill to reproduce. It's like a wasp that has to lay its eggs inside a living host, except in our case the darkspawn need to physically abuse and alter that host to even get to the egg-laying stage.

By that broad definition, all races of Thedas are parasites. They need and use different organisms without benefiting said organisms. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The other races indeed serve as a host for the darkspawn. They can only replenish their numbers by abducting the females of other races. That fits the definition of parasite perfectly.

Hespith's chant was not that vague at all, unless "in her mouth they spew" means that the darkspawn served their victims tea. Describing someone eating the face of another is kinda clear. As a sodding bell.

I'm talking about the "Darkspawn rape women" part is the vague part, just to clarify. 

 

And as I said to Exile, if needing another organism without benefiting that organism is considered parasitic, then Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Qunari are also parasites. 

[KaiserShep]

No, that's not the same. Members of another race are forced to reproduce more of a foreign "species". Cowbirds and cuckoos are defined as "parasitic brooders" because they invade the nests of other bird species, tricking the host into caring for an animal that doesn't carry its genes.

The logic that the other races of Thedas are also parasites on each other in this interpretation is terribly flawed. None of these races are at all dependent on the other to propagate. Elves can mate among themselves, same for everyone else. The darkspawn cannot. They rely solely on other species to continue their existence should their numbers begin to shrink. This is pretty much an established fact in the lore.

As for rape, the darkspawn force-feed their victims the flesh of other darkspawn as well as those of their own kind until they do it willingly. Whether one cares to define it as such doesn't really matter at that point, because they're still horribly molested.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, that's not the same. Members of another race are forced to reproduce more of a foreign "species". Cowbirds and cuckoos are defined as "parasitic brooders" because they invade the nests of other bird species, tricking the host into caring for an animal that doesn't carry its genes.

The logic that the other races of Thedas are also parasites on each other is terribly flawed. None of these races are entirely dependent on the other to propagate. Elves can mate among themselves, same for everyone else. The darkspawn cannot. They rely solely on other species to continue their existence should their numbers begin to shrink.

No, a parasite is a creature that is sustained by another creature without the creature sustaining them getting any benefit from the relationship. 

 

So the races of Thedas need food to survive. They get this food from plants and animals. They are being parasitic to these plants and animals. 

[KaiserShep]

Sweet tap dancing Christ, that's not the same thing at all.

Brood parasites are a *real* thing in nature. There's a significant difference.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Sweet tap dancing Christ, that's not the same thing at all.

Yes it is. 

 

par·a·site

ˈparəˌsīt/

noun

 

1. an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

 

How is this not what we do to animals? We live off them by depriving nutrients at their expense.

 

[In Exile]

And? So they live in a nuclear wasteland-like environment. As long as they don't spread it, I don't care. We change the environment to suit our needs. They do the same. 

 

Except for the fact that they turn the environment into something unlivable for us by merely existing on it, and we can't turn it back. That's a serious threat. Sure, we "do it", but we don't have to contend with other sentient species that could wage an effective war on us because we do it. If we did, we'd have a perpetual state of war on our hands.

 

Edit: I'm always the pro-co-existence person. The darkspawn are the first fantasy race that I think co-existence is just off the table with, because of what they are - the anathema of life. That's why helping the Architect make more Awakened darkpawn is worse - because now you have sentients to condent with that you still can't co-exist with, not to mention that you're making the darkspawn infinetly more dangerous.

 

The only time we ever saw violence against themselves was a civil war led by an insane Broodmother who wanted to hear the Old Gods. No Old Gods, no longing.

And we're back to the utopian society where darkspawn are all pacifists. That's ignoring, again, what the darkspawn (the Architect's darkspawn, mind you) did to Velana, where they basically arranged a racial killings for shits and giggles. They massacred an elven settlement and pinned it on the humans.

 

Beyond that, there's no reason to think other darkspawn won't be driven equally insane by the lack of old gods. Or a few will decide that the darkspawn are the superior race and it's time to conquer Thedas. For them not to do that, they'd have to be pacificsts to such a level that they're barely recognizable as people. It's utopian.

 

 

 

And again, no clear evidence they rape.

Let's pretend you're right, and ignore "in their mouth they spew" and "violated" from Hespith's poem, which (IMO) is clear evidence pointing to rape. Let's even say we ignore the beatings, the imprisonment, and the canibalism that are confirmed as happening based on that poem, and assume the transformation is more sanitized.

 

Are you saying that the forced kidnapping and the mutation is... OK? Not so bad? That a few women should volunteer as tribute to be mutated?

 

Let's think this through: how does the brood mother get pregnant? Are you positing immaculate conception through the taint?

 

If the Dwarves break the peace treaty, they'll suffer the consequences of their actions. Just like in any other situation. 

The consequence is dead darkspawn, numbers that need to be made up. 

 

 

 

As long as their numbers decrease at a slower or equal rate as their current Broodmothers produce them, there is no need for more of them. 

 

Broodmothers are ghouls - we have no evidence that they're immortal. But let's assume even Broodmothers are immortal. What happens if their war losses exceed the amount those things can produce?

 

 

 

By that broad definition, all races of Thedas are parasites. They need and use different organisms without benefiting said organisms.

 

Well, that's not true. Because the definition isn't "need and use", it's "grow, feed and shelter". My phrasing was meant to illustrate, not define. A fetus is a kind of parasite definitionally, but we handwave that one away (because there is a benefit: propogation of your genes through time to your descendants). The darkspawn are parasites on those women.

 

Edit: I realize the example isn't clear: it's not the adult wasp that's the parasite, it's the larvae. The wasp race is also parasytic, because the parasite stage is a part of their life cycle.

[In Exile]

 

Yes it is. 

 

par·a·site

ˈparəˌsīt/

noun

 

1. an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

 

How is this not what we do to animals? We live off them by depriving nutrients at their expense.

 

 

 

We don't live in or on other organisms. The darkspawn a broodmother is birthing do, and the brodmother is not a darkspawn. It's an impregnated organism.

[Vortex13]

From the sounds of things, Darkspawn are ageless which means they don't die by natural means. So they just have to be careful and avoid causing accidents or war and they should be fine. Kinda like the Geth in ME. 

 

 

The Taint not only sustains the Darkspawn with a functionally immortal lifespan, as well as eliminating the need to eat or drink but it also will regrow lost limbs and repair damage (to an extent; remember the Ogres), furthermore it is the foundation of a more powerful/refined version of Blood Magic (Avernus' research in the Warden's Keep DLC). Really if not for the whole infect and mutate/kill non Darkspawn aspect the Taint would be a pretty awesome ability to have.

 

 

If we take all of the advantages that the Taint grants an Awakened Darkspawn; not even counting the abilities that one could unlock if given enough time and knowhow; then maintaining a stable population; at least as far as accidents and injuries sustained in combat are concerned; is only slightly more difficult then for a group of Golems to survive. Now deaths, and the want to increase numbers would open up the door for more BroodMothers being created its true.

 

However, I would say that a small tribe of Awakened similar to the Messenger in temperament and personality; or just the Messenger himself; would most likely (given what information we have on the character) not go out and try making more Darkspawn even if their numbers got low. I mean the Messenger was perfectly willing to let the Warden kill him after delivering the message from the Architect; or even after helping the Warden defend Amaranthie from the Darkspawn; offering no defense or pleading for his life; an Awakened like that is not going to intentionally go out and make more BroodMothers.

 

Women being infected with the Taint as collateral damage is unfortunate, but the ending slides are vague on the severity and nature of the Taint infections.

 

• Did the Messenger unwittingly infect an entire woman's chapel to Andraste?   

 

• Did the Taint get into the local wildlife?

 

• Was it only the marauders and brigands that the Messenger attacked to defend travelers that were infected?

 

 

The ending slide doesn't say one way or the other. Now don't misunderstand me, the Taint is an issue, but if we compare the Messenger's assumed accidental infections/death by the Taint to say Conner's actual, accidental injuries/deaths caused by demon possession, I think that the danger posed by Mages and demons is higher then the Taint; from this particular Awakened anyway.

 

 

 

And we're back to the utopian society where darkspawn are all pacifists. That's ignoring, again, what the darkspawn (the Architect's darkspawn, mind you) did to Velana, where they basically arranged a racial killings for shits and giggles. They massacred an elven settlement and pinned it on the humans.

 

 

I would attribute those actions as:

 

• Individuals being evil (Primary reason) - Yes those Awakened took pleasure in killing the innocent elven settlement, but Arle Howe took pleasure in killing and torturing innocent people as well, that doesn't make all humans evil sadistic monsters though. There are only a handful of Awakened working with the Architect in DA:A, so the sample size is a drop in the ocean compared to the sample size of Arle Howe vs. the rest of the human population. If you had only a sample size of around ten humans and five of them were evil monsters, you wouldn't think that all humans were evil monsters.

 

• The Architect being a horrible supervisor/instructor/father, whatever you want to call him, to the Awakened he created - Until they were separated from the song of the Old Gods, these Darkspawn have only ever know how to conduct themselves as Darkspawn; they can talk and walk, but they are severely limited when it comes to trying to interact with non-Darkspawn or interpret the other races' morals. Nowhere is it indicated that the Architect even attempts to show the newly Awakened how they should deal with the other people of Thedas; he preforms the ritual and then sends them out to do a task or just lets them run free. There is no teaching structure in place, no overview of the most basic human/dwarf/elf social and moral institutes. The Architect doesn't tell his Disciples to try and talk to Wardens at Vigil's Keep; as humans tend to react badly to abduction and violence. Maybe Velana's settlement would have still been attacked, but I would submit that there would have been a lot fewer issues if the Architect had instructed the Awakened on how to act around non-Darkspawn.

[In Exile]

I would attribute those actions as:

 

• Individuals being evil (Primary reason) - Yes those Awakened took pleasure in killing the innocent elven settlement, but Arle Howe took pleasure in killing and torturing innocent people as well, that doesn't make all humans evil sadistic monsters though. There are only a handful of Awakened working with the Architect in DA:A, so the sample size is a drop in the ocean compared to the sample size of Arle Howe vs. the rest of the human population. If you had only a sample size of around ten humans and five of them were evil monsters, you wouldn't think that all humans were evil monsters.

 

• The Architect being a horrible supervisor/instructor/father, whatever you want to call him, to the Awakened he created - Until they were separated from the song of the Old Gods, these Darkspawn have only ever know how to conduct themselves as Darkspawn; they can talk and walk, but they are severely limited when it comes to trying to interact with non-Darkspawn or interpret the other races' morals. Nowhere is it indicated that the Architect even attempts to show the newly Awakened how they should deal with the other people of Thedas; he preforms the ritual and then sends them out to do a task or just lets them run free. There is no teaching structure in place, no overview of the most basic human/dwarf/elf social and moral institutes. The Architect doesn't tell his Disciples to try and talk to Wardens at Vigil's Keep; as humans tend to react badly to abduction and violence. Maybe Velana's settlement would have still been attacked, but I would submit that there would have been a lot fewer issues if the Architect had instructed the Awakened on how to act around non-Darkspawn.

 

 

I'll break up my response in two, because I don't disagree with your explanations per se (I think Awakened darkspawn are a race of all chaotic evil monsters, but there's not enough evidence in-game to support that so I'm open to alternative interpretations). Rather, the problem with your view is that you don't seem to see the significance of them being just the same as people.

 

1) Some people are serial killers. Some people are greedy. Lots of people, as part of a political state, can look at the lands and wealth of another nation and salive over it, and go so far as to start a war over it. The difference is that if the darkspawn start a war with the aim of conquest and they succeed, it'll end in the total eradication of life from the region.

 

Arl Howe was scum. And he succeed not only in almost exterminating the Cousland line, but he almost became the most powerful noble in Ferelden. A darkspawn that ambitious, and that politically succesful, could easily spark a war with the dwarves in Orzammar and Kal-Sharok to exterminate them.

 

2) If the darkspawn are exactly the same morally as humans, elves or dwarves, they are the greatest existential threat in the history of Thedas, and co-existence is impossible. That's my point. If the Architect is a bad dad, that's just proof that all it takes is some child abuse to create a group of pure evil monsters whose only possible end is death and torture.

 

 

However, I would say that a small tribe of Awakened similar to the Messenger in temperament and personality; or just the Messenger himself; would most likely (given what information we have on the character) not go out and try making more Darkspawn even if their numbers got low. I mean the Messenger was perfectly willing to let the Warden kill him after delivering the message from the Architect; or even after helping the Warden defend Amaranthie from the Darkspawn; offering no defense or pleading for his life; an Awakened like that is not going to intentionally go out and make more BroodMothers.

 

But again, this turns the darkspawn into the greatest utopian race in history. They're not just moral equals to humanity, they're a race of moral paragons that makes the US Warden look selfish.

 

This doesn't resolve the co-existence problem at all.

[DontWakeTheBear]

I'll break up my response in two, because I don't disagree with your explanations per se (I think Awakened darkspawn are a race of all chaotic evil monsters, but there's not enough evidence in-game to support that so I'm open to alternative interpretations). Rather, the problem with your view is that you don't seem to see the significance of them being just the same as people.

 

1) Some people are serial killers. Some people are greedy. Lots of people, as part of a political state, can look at the lands and wealth of another nation and salive over it, and go so far as to start a war over it. The difference is that if the darkspawn start a war with the aim of conquest and they succeed, it'll end in the total eradication of life from the region.

 

Arl Howe was scum. And he succeed not only in almost exterminating the Cousland line, but he almost became the most powerful noble in Ferelden. A darkspawn that ambitious, and that politically succesful, could easily spark a war with the dwarves in Orzammar and Kal-Sharok to exterminate them.

 

2) If the darkspawn are exactly the same morally as humans, elves or dwarves, they are the greatest existential threat in the history of Thedas, and co-existence is impossible. That's my point. If the Architect is a bad dad, that's just proof that all it takes is some child abuse to create a group of pure evil monsters whose only possible end is death and torture.

 

 

 

But again, this turns the darkspawn into the greatest utopian race in history. They're not just moral equals to humanity, they're a race of moral paragons that makes the US Warden look selfish.

 

This doesn't resolve the co-existence problem at all.

I think it really means that there is no good answer. Yes, it would be simpler and safer to merely wipe them all out, but is it the right thing to do? My Warden killed the Architect in every playthrough i did, he did it for the greater good of Thedas, and I don't regret it one bit but I was often split on the decision of the Messenger. He came (on the Architect's orders) to aid me, he fought side by side with me, and I was given the choice to kill him or let him live after it was over. He wasn't the same as the Architect, he didn't have grand plans for awakening Darkspawn, he didn't have aspirations for leading his brothers to salvation or conquest, and if you spare him he genuinely tries to go out and do good. I think you take each one as an individual case and weigh the pro's vs the con's and do what you feel is best, we may not agree on what is "the best" but it's all we can do. Fortunately, we each have our own pocket dimension in the Dragon Age. 

[Vortex13]

I'll break up my response in two, because I don't disagree with your explanations per se (I think Awakened darkspawn are a race of all chaotic evil monsters, but there's not enough evidence in-game to support that so I'm open to alternative interpretations). Rather, the problem with your view is that you don't seem to see the significance of them being just the same as people.

 

1) Some people are serial killers. Some people are greedy. Lots of people, as part of a political state, can look at the lands and wealth of another nation and salive over it, and go so far as to start a war over it. The difference is that if the darkspawn start a war with the aim of conquest and they succeed, it'll end in the total eradication of life from the region.

 

Arl Howe was scum. And he succeed not only in almost exterminating the Cousland line, but he almost became the most powerful noble in Ferelden. A darkspawn that ambitious, and that politically succesful, could easily spark a war with the dwarves in Orzammar and Kal-Sharok to exterminate them.

 

2) If the darkspawn are exactly the same morally as humans, elves or dwarves, they are the greatest existential threat in the history of Thedas, and co-existence is impossible. That's my point. If the Architect is a bad dad, that's just proof that all it takes is some child abuse to create a group of pure evil monsters whose only possible end is death and torture.

 

 

 

But again, this turns the darkspawn into the greatest utopian race in history. They're not just moral equals to humanity, they're a race of moral paragons that makes the US Warden look selfish.

 

This doesn't resolve the co-existence problem at all.

 

 

You make excellent points, and I would have to say that I don't attribute the Awakened as being carbon copies of humans, as far as human morals are concerned . Capable of understanding the morals and social expectations; as the Architect, the Messenger, and the Awakened that killed Valena's tribe prove; but not beholden to them. The Awakened and the Spirits of the Fade are the closest analogues to aliens in the setting, and as such they can't ever become just like the humans/elves/dwarves/ect.

 

That doesn't mean that co-operation is impossible though. The Messenger, actually tried to understand the other races of Thedas, and; unlike the Architect; tried to see things from their point of view. He was aware that Darkspawn and non-Darkspawn were different, he knew that the other races viewed his kind as monsters, and he didn't hide from that fact, or attempt to force co-operation like the Architect did with his 'Grand Plan'.

 

You are probably right about long-term co-existence being impossible, but short term co-operation; both in the form of coming together to confront a common enemy, and by having limited interaction between the two; is possible. Co-existence implies a constant back and forth between two peoples; Ferelden may not like Orlias, or Tevinter, but they interact with each other, they co-exist with each other. That won't work with the Darkspawn. Their Taint and general 'alien' nature is not suited for long term interaction, but having short and infrequent connections allows the Darkspawn and non-Darkspawn to remain separate.

 

I tend to think of the Awakened, and their relation to the other races, as something similar to the Leviathans and their relation to the other races of the galaxy in ME. Not in the sense that all Awakened view themselves as the apex race, but in the sense that Shepard was willing to work with an alien race responsible for destruction across a colossal scale, and an alien race that could quite literally mind rape him/her if they felt like it. The Council and Leviathans are not going to be close friends if they both survive the war, but they are both aware that a combined effort helps achieve what might not be possible going at it solo.

 

Granted, the Leviathans' are rather one dimensional (apparently they all view themselves as the Apex Race), so a direct comparison between then and the varied Awakened (the Darkspawn that attacked Velana's clan vs the Messenger) is not entirely accurate.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Let's pretend you're right, and ignore "in their mouth they spew" and "violated" from Hespith's poem, which (IMO) is clear evidence pointing to rape. Let's even say we ignore the beatings, the imprisonment, and the canibalism that are confirmed as happening based on that poem, and assume the transformation is more sanitized.

 

Are you saying that the forced kidnapping and the mutation is... OK? Not so bad? That a few women should volunteer as tribute to be mutated?

 

Let's think this through: how does the brood mother get pregnant? Are you positing immaculate conception through the taint?

Both of those terms can mean several things each. 

 

No, Broodmothers are still a terrible thing.

 

I'm thinking asexual reproduction occurs. 

[In Exile]

You make excellent points, and I would have to say that I don't attribute the Awakened as being carbon copies of humans, as far as human morals are concerned . Capable of understanding the morals and social expectations; as the Architect, the Messenger, and the Awakened that killed Valena's tribe prove; but not beholden to them. The Awakened and the Spirits of the Fade are the closest analogues to aliens in the setting, and as such they can't ever become just like the humans/elves/dwarves/ect.

 

That doesn't mean that co-operation is impossible though. The Messenger, actually tried to understand the other races of Thedas, and; unlike the Architect; tried to see things from their point of view. He was aware that Darkspawn and non-Darkspawn were different, he knew that the other races viewed his kind as monsters, and he didn't hide from that fact, or attempt to force co-operation like the Architect did with his 'Grand Plan'.

 

You are probably right about long-term co-existence being impossible, but short term co-operation; both in the form of coming together to confront a common enemy, and by having limited interaction between the two; is possible. Co-existence implies a constant back and forth between two peoples; Ferelden may not like Orlias, or Tevinter, but they interact with each other, they co-exist with each other. That won't work with the Darkspawn. Their Taint and general 'alien' nature is not suited for long term interaction, but having short and infrequent connections allows the Darkspawn and non-Darkspawn to remain separate.

 

I tend to think of the Awakened, and their relation to the other races, as something similar to the Leviathans and their relation to the other races of the galaxy in ME. Not in the sense that all Awakened view themselves as the apex race, but in the sense that Shepard was willing to work with an alien race responsible for destruction across a colossal scale, and an alien race that could quite literally mind rape him/her if they felt like it. The Council and Leviathans are not going to be close friends if they both survive the war, but they are both aware that a combined effort helps achieve what might not be possible going at it solo.

 

Granted, the Leviathans' are rather one dimensional (apparently they all view themselves as the Apex Race), so a direct comparison between then and the varied Awakened (the Darkspawn that attacked Velana's clan vs the Messenger) is not entirely accurate.

 

Here is the thing with your blue and orange morality idea: whatever merits the darkspawn can give to it in the abstract, it's irrelevant. We have a clear demarcation line between what constitutes a threat and what doesn't constitute a threat. The darkspawn, through their very existence, poison the land and make it uninhabitable, reproduce through mutation and (likely) rape. They can spawn legions of soldiers so massive that a conventional military victory is impossible. The so-called "victory" in a blight is just the execution of the mind-controlling leader of the horde. If we replace the Archdemon with Awakened darkspawn, the war is effectively unwinnable at this point. The situation for the non-darkspawn races is pretty dire - and I mean invest in a genocidal WMD dire - if more Awakened exist.

 

The Messenger is one thing that arguably - and that's pretty arguable - did more good than harm if we balance out the people it infected with the people it saved, and consider that the horror awaiting the infected is better than the kinds of death those people originally faced.

 

The Leviathan analogy doesn't work, because even if they're back to their original ways, they're just a slaver empire. Slaver empire >>>>>>> genocidal reaper death camps. 

 

The thing with "short and infrequent connections" is that there is no greater danger in Thedas than the darkspawn. Demon invasion? Far less of a serious threat than the existence of the Awakened darkspawn in particular and the darkspawn in general. This is where I have to disagree with you. There can't be an alliance, because once darkspawn are on the scene, the supposed threat they'd have to work together to combat isn't as severe as the existence of the darkspawn itself. Hell, if there were Awakened in enough numbers to threaten demons, then the people that you should ally with are the demons against the darkspawn. 

 

There can't be an enemy of my enemy scenario, because the darkspawn are the threat. 

[In Exile]

I think it really means that there is no good answer. Yes, it would be simpler and safer to merely wipe them all out, but is it the right thing to do? My Warden killed the Architect in every playthrough i did, he did it for the greater good of Thedas, and I don't regret it one bit but I was often split on the decision of the Messenger. He came (on the Architect's orders) to aid me, he fought side by side with me, and I was given the choice to kill him or let him live after it was over. He wasn't the same as the Architect, he didn't have grand plans for awakening Darkspawn, he didn't have aspirations for leading his brothers to salvation or conquest, and if you spare him he genuinely tries to go out and do good. I think you take each one as an individual case and weigh the pro's vs the con's and do what you feel is best, we may not agree on what is "the best" but it's all we can do. Fortunately, we each have our own pocket dimension in the Dragon Age. 

 

The Messenger is a threat if it can create Awakened darkspawn. Their existence - and their knowledge of how to make more of themselves - is a greater threat than the archdemon. 

[In Exile]

Both of those terms can mean several things each. 

 

No, Broodmothers are still a terrible thing.

 

I'm thinking asexual reproduction occurs. 

 

The reproduction can't the asexual, because broodmothers aren't darkspawn. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The reproduction can't the asexual, because broodmothers aren't darkspawn. 

Sure it can. During her transformation, the Broodmother becomes capable of birthing Darkspawn using the taint itself as the "father". 

[In Exile]

Sure it can. During her transformation, the Broodmother becomes capable of birthing Darkspawn using the taint itself as the "father". 

 

That wouldn't make it asexual. It would just be hilariously, and sort of perversely, akin to the virgin birth.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That wouldn't make it asexual. It would just be hilariously, and sort of perversely, akin to the virgin birth.  

That works too. 

[In Exile]

That works too. 

 

So the darkspawn are basically reverse Jesus. *Sigh*. Just another thing to add to my "List of Reasons Why I'm Going to Hell" list ™. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So the darkspawn are basically reverse Jesus. *Sigh*. Just another thing to add to my "List of Reasons Why I'm Going to Hell" list ™. 

You mean Anti-Christ? Well, the Blights are pretty much the closest thing Thedas has to an apocalypse.

 

Also, you have it trademarked? 

[Wolfen09]

So the darkspawn are basically reverse Jesus. *Sigh*. Just another thing to add to my "List of Reasons Why I'm Going to Hell" list ™. 

 

you've got some competition, with donald sterling, jim irsay, myself, the queen of england, and mel gibson