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Cerberus's Origins


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#1
ImaginaryMatter

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This might be a dumb topic but it's an issue I've always been a little confused about since hearing, not reading, about the origins of Cerberus dealing with Jack Harper, the First Contact War, Saren, and whatever else goes on in the comics.

 

So, in ME1 we're told that Cerberus is a rogue Alliance group. However, in the comics and ME2 it is revealed that Cerberus was started by TIM when he released his manifesto (the Codex entry drops all references of being an Alliance black-ops group). At first I thought this was a retcon of sorts that happened along with the rest of Cerberus rising in the story of ME2. However, in ME3 the door guards again state that Cerberus was a rogue Alliance black-ops group.

 

I guess my question is what is the deal here? Is it a retcon? Does Jack Harper being a mercenary for the Alliance mean Cerberus was an Alliance black-ops group (from a certain point of view, Luke)? Did Cerberus infiltrate the Alliance so they started the Alliance branch of Cerberus? Was this yet another rogue Cerberus faction?



#2
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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Mac Walters intended retcon, I believe. 

Kahoku, who, as a high-ranking Alliance admiral doing an investigation, says that it's a rogue-black ops group. This is never contradicted in the games, only ignored. 

And Games>Books>Mac Walters books. 



#3
Argentoid

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Actually the guy responsible for the retcon is Drew Karpyshyn. He did this with his tie-in book Mass Effect: Ascension.



#4
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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Actually the guy responsible for the retcon is Drew Karpyshyn. He did this with his tie-in book Mass Effect: Ascension.

IIRC, the book doesn't go into how Cerberus was founded. 

This is done in Evolution, which is written by Mac



#5
KaiserShep

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Mac Walters intended retcon, I believe. 

Kahoku, who, as a high-ranking Alliance admiral doing an investigation, says that it's a rogue-black ops group. This is never contradicted in the games, only ignored. 

And Games>Books>Mac Walters books. 

 

Well, it is acknowledged, just very briefly, and only once if I recall, by the guard at the scanner between the CIC and war room.



#6
cap and gown

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IIRC, the book doesn't go into how Cerberus was founded. 

This is done in Evolution, which is written by Mac

 

I have Evolution and Cerberus is not mentioned there. Rather, the comic ends with TIM releasing his manifesto.  But there is no mention of a Cerberus in it.



#7
Argentoid

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IIRC, the book doesn't go into how Cerberus was founded. 

This is done in Evolution, which is written by Mac

 

Nope. What cap and gown said. And I was referring to the depiction of Cerberus and who came up with it first. Mac Walters brought Cerberus on the table during development of ME1. Drew liked this idea and decided to retcon the whole black-ops arc into the Space Iluminati we are now more familiar with (though Mac went bonkers with Cerberus during ME2, the comics and ME3).

 

Btw, Mass Effect: Ascension's depiction of Cerberus is completely different compared to the one we saw back on ME1. The book was published in 2008, and written by Drew Karpyshyn. You could say that Drew was the creator of TIM also, and the whole manifesto thing, the backstory and blah blah blah.



#8
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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I just skimmed the Wiki, but still, it's a asspull retcon. 

I wouldn't spend any money on a book Walters wrote, and have a negative view of Karpyshyn since what he did with Revan and the Exile. 



#9
wolfhowwl

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From the Final Hours of Mass Effect app:

 

On Page 8 of 10.

 

 

By the spring of 2007 it was clear that parts of Mass Effect's original vision, hugely ambitious from the start, would never be realized. The entire online Xbox Live trading system was scotched, and Walters' idea of a plot about a shadowy organization named Cerberus, which conducted human experiments on a planet named Misery, was designed but never made it into the game. Similarly, a volcanic mining planet named Caleston was planned as a level but cut due to production delays. (Some of those story elements folded into the player's adventures on the planet Therum.) More than anything else the game's combat system continued to be refined as the team balanced the desire for a mainstream action-oriented experience with the company's roots in a deep role-playing game with skills, stats, and progression.

 

Human experimentation on a planet named Misery? And that's the guy they put in charge.

 

Later on Page 8 of 12, there is a part about the development of ME2 and Mac Walters stepping into the Lead Writer role.

 

 

Back at the office, Hudson spent time thinking about Mass Effect 2. He put together a huge spreadsheet that analyzed all the positive and negative feedback about the game from 97 different reviews. And in a black notebook labeled "SFX," he began charting out ideas for the sequel. If Mass Effect was the wake-up call about the pending Reaper invasion and the third game was to become an all-out war against them, he, Karpyshyn and Mac Walters needed a good second act to the story. (Karpyshyn left the team shortly after Mass Effect 2 began production to focus on the development of BioWare's latest release, the massively multiplayer game Star Wars: The Old Republic.)

 

Walters and Hudson centered in on a dirty dozen story in which Shepard would spend the second act of the game canvassing the galaxy to recruit what he called "commandos" in his notes. This diverse group of characters - including familiar faces from the first game - would team up with Shepard to fight a mysterious force known as the Collectors. Somehow tied to the Reapers, these aliens were wiping out human colonies around the galaxy. The second game would culminate in a massive battle, a so-called suicide mission in which many of the characters could perish - including the player's Commander Shepard.

 

The sequel also gave Walters a chance to bring back his idea for the shadowy organization of Cerberus, only briefly hinted at in the original game. Hudson ran with this idea and suggested that the organization be run by a character he imagined would look like Anderson Cooper from CNN and act like Jack Baur's brother Graem from 24, a rogue charlatan who had enough power to tell the president of the United States what to do. The character would be known as the Illusive Man, a self-appointed protector of humanity who would do whatever is necessary - even outside the political system - to ensure the race survives and controls the Reapers. Martin Sheen was selected as the voice of the character.

 

Other changes were on the table for the sequel. For a while, the team wanted Shepard's ship, the Normandy, to be destroyed at the start of the game as part of his untimely demise. (The Illusive Man would bring Shepard back to life and help him assemble a new ship, named the Leviathan, in the first act of the story.) Watts and the art team pushed back because they loved the Normandy design and the interiors, inspired by the George Clooney movie Solaris. Eventually the design team relented; the ship was blown up at the beginning, but it was replaced by the nearly identical Normandy SR-2.

 

We can see here the same impeccable planning that is evident throughout the rest of the trilogy.



#10
mybudgee

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Why Mac Walters?! WHY!?!

#11
KaiserShep

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Man, Cerberus should simply have been some nameless entity working inside of the Alliance, eventually using those same resources against Shepard. Heil Hydra.



#12
I Tsunayoshi I

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Man, Cerberus should simply have been some nameless entity working inside of the Alliance, eventually using those same resources against Shepard. Heil Hydra.

 

No thanks. Pretty sure that BS detectors around the world would explode if Bioware tried to get away with it.



#13
The Sarendoctrinator

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This might be a dumb topic but it's an issue I've always been a little confused about since hearing, not reading, about the origins of Cerberus dealing with Jack Harper, the First Contact War, Saren, and whatever else goes on in the comics.

The origins of Cerberus weren't detailed in Evolution, just the Illusive Man's origin. At the end of the comic, he published his manifesto under that name, which I believe was before the creation of Cerberus. 



#14
SporkFu

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Cerberus should have disappeared in ME1 with Kahoku's death. TIM should have been the original Shadow Broker, using the money he'd amassed from selling secrets all over the galaxy to raise an army and conduct his experiments on reaper tech. 



#15
KaiserShep

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No thanks. Pretty sure that BS detectors around the world would explode if Bioware tried to get away with it.

 

It's not much different from what happened when Cerberus became its own superpower in the galaxy. They were able to just come out of nowhere and take over Omega, they had vast facilities and secret shipyards, gigantic space stations and legions of soldiers, and they did have a facility posing as an Alliance facility to create augmented troopers. It seems to me that, judging from this forum, BS detectors were already going off anyhow. In any case, this is closer to what Cerberus was in ME1 than anything.


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#16
I Tsunayoshi I

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It's not much different from what happened when Cerberus became its own superpower in the galaxy. They were able to just come out of nowhere and take over Omega, they had vast facilities and secret shipyards, gigantic space stations and legions of soldiers, and they did have a facility posing as an Alliance facility to create augmented troopers. It seems to me that, judging from this forum, BS detectors were already going off anyhow.

 

They would have gone nuclear though if Cerberus pulled a Hydra though.



#17
KaiserShep

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That kind of makes me wish that they did. I wish Hackett had some kind of ulterior motive, leading to us having to kill him as well.



#18
ImaginaryMatter

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Cerberus should have disappeared in ME1 with Kahoku's death. TIM should have been the original Shadow Broker, using the money he'd amassed from selling secrets all over the galaxy to raise an army and conduct his experiments on reaper tech. 

 

I've been fooling around with my own ideas for a ME2/ME3 rewrite. in it Cerberus is reduced back to it's ME1 version (although it would still be responsible for Jack's origin -- back when it was a part of the Alliance -- and project Overlord).

 

The Shadow Broker instead of being one or even a network of individuals, would simply be a name that a number of completely independent brokers use, for example the ME1 'Shadow Broker' who was involved with Tali and the one who asked for the Cerberus data would be two separate networks which are completely unrelated to each other. TIM would be one of these brokers who simply gives Shepard information (no ships, although Miranda and Jacob will be in a similar position). Shepard can be more compliant and serve in a relationship with TIM similar to the Yagh broker and Vasir, which would be the more Renegade path since some of TIM's actions would be more questionable; or there would be a Paragon path where Shepard finds another way. How Shepard interacts with TIM (who wouldn't be called TIM) will effect the ending of ME2 and influence parts of ME3.



#19
SporkFu

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I've been fooling around with my own ideas for a ME2/ME3 rewrite. in it Cerberus is reduced back to it's ME1 version (although it would still be responsible for Jack's origin -- back when it was a part of the Alliance -- and project Overlord).

 

The Shadow Broker instead of being one or even a network of individuals, would simply be a name that a number of completely independent brokers use, for example the ME1 'Shadow Broker' who was involved with Tali and the one who asked for the Cerberus data would be two separate networks which are completely unrelated to each other. TIM would be one of these brokers who simply gives Shepard information (no ships, although Miranda and Jacob will be in a similar position). Shepard can be more compliant and serve in a relationship with TIM similar to the Yagh broker and Vasir, which would be the more Renegade path since some of TIM's actions would be more questionable; or there would be a Paragon path where Shepard finds another way. How Shepard interacts with TIM (who wouldn't be called TIM) will effect the ending of ME2 and influence parts of ME3.

I like this idea too. I think it was Barla Von or maybe Anderson who said (something like), "no one knows who he, she or even they are." in reference to the shadow broker in ME1, so a network of brokers who don't even know each other is pretty cool. I just thought one day, "what if TIM was the broker?" and it kinda grew from there a little bit. From that I would put Miranda in Liara's place in LotSB, and have shep's interaction with her in ME2, be a factor in how she confronts TIM in LotSB. 



#20
kavox

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It's a bit of a head canon, but i see it going down this way:

 

Jack Harper is a hard-ass, battle tested soldier who uses his new-found superior intellect to coerce the Alliance into creating a new black ops cell. The Alliance set him up with a slush fund and maintain minimum oversight on his activities for plausible deniability. Cerberus delves into wetworks, espionage, illegal research etc. ,in order to give humanity an edge. For a while this works ok until Admiral Kahoku begins rocking the boat with his investigations.

 

At some point, not sure when, Cerberus begins detaching itself from the Alliance. I'd venture it is sometime before Kahoku's murder, that was the final push to becoming completely rogue. The reasoning behind this could be many things, but i feel it is because the Alliance generally wants to cooperate with other races while Cerberus wants humanity to dominate the galactic scene.  

 

Then in ME3 they go from fringe intelligence group to full blown evil empire with a small army, kind of a let down for me TBH. I wanted it so that if you supported Cerberus' ideas then humanity would be more powerful after the Reaper War based on the degree in which you supported Cerberus. And if you mistrusted Cerberus then humanity would have a less dominant, more cooperative relationship with the rest of the glaxy. But, ya know the cookie-cutter thing with the endings so meh. 



#21
Kabooooom

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It's a bit of a head canon, but i see it going down this way:

Jack Harper is a hard-ass, battle tested soldier who uses his new-found superior intellect to coerce the Alliance into creating a new black ops cell. The Alliance set him up with a slush fund and maintain minimum oversight on his activities for plausible deniability. Cerberus delves into wetworks, espionage, illegal research etc. ,in order to give humanity an edge. For a while this works ok until Admiral Kahoku begins rocking the boat with his investigations.

At some point, not sure when, Cerberus begins detaching itself from the Alliance. I'd venture it is sometime before Kahoku's murder, that was the final push to becoming completely rogue. The reasoning behind this could be many things, but i feel it is because the Alliance generally wants to cooperate with other races while Cerberus wants humanity to dominate the galactic scene.

Then in ME3 they go from fringe intelligence group to full blown evil empire with a small army, kind of a let down for me TBH. I wanted it so that if you supported Cerberus' ideas then humanity would be more powerful after the Reaper War based on the degree in which you supported Cerberus. And if you mistrusted Cerberus then humanity would have a less dominant, more cooperative relationship with the rest of the glaxy. But, ya know the cookie-cutter thing with the endings so meh.


This is almost exactly how I interpret the rise of Cerberus (without considering a retcon). I would make a suggestion though. In the Mass Effect universe, corporations hold incredible power. As Earth joined a galactic economy, human based corporations became so expansive and so powerful that governments had to play their game more so than ever before. We know that Cerberus has a number of front companies that directly supply funding, including Cord-Hislop as their primary front company (which is also where they got their starships and shipyard facilities from).

So, in addition to espionage, illegal research, and political machinations, it also makes a large amount of strategic military sense for a black ops organization of that sort to infiltrate and eventually control major galactic corporations. TIM was initially backed by the Alliance, but after years of doing this and accumulating a fortune, he gave them the finger and split.