116 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

Apologies its different to the ones I'm used to the point I was making is that in DAI we are not roleplaying Warden/Hawke we are roleplaying The Inquisitor, attempting to roleplay both the Inquisitor and a Silent Warden already breaks immersion since The Inquisitor can't be expected to hear what the Warden is thinking making the immersion breaking argument Invalid.

 

Importing your save state from DAO/DA2 does not make The Hawke/Warden "yours" as they never were "yours" they were merely one possible outcome for BW's Character within the confines of the choices they permitted you to make. The old dungeons and dragons books had multiple paths with multiple endings the main character might survive to the end or die a nasty death before the end, however having these choices does not make that character "yours" it is and always will be "the writers" character.

 

Most of the reasons I have seen for objecting to Warden/Hawke returning are not based within the confines of choices/decisions available in the game,they are based on scenario's that are neither implied or explicitly stated.

 

Once again, you're focussing on supposed "ownership" (and I've been saying this sarcastically the entire time) and ignoring the valid reasons behind the argument of bringing them back?! No-one claims ownership of these characters, it's Bioware's wendy-house and they can play in it all they want!

 

The real argument is the problem of whether they can do these characters justice from their appearance in previous games. As I said with the Alex Mercer example from Prototype, if Bioware went that route and brought back the Warden or Hawke back as an utterly insane, baby-killing maniac, would that seriously not bother you? Unless you played as a complete thug in Origins and DA2, it would utterly ruin those characters for you.

 

The Bioware writers aren't stupid enough to do that. After all, the way that they're are apparently approaching Morrigan is to make her be either colder or warmer depending on whether the Warden either befriended or romanced her in Origins, showing that they're willing to have their characters change depending on your actions, not solely relying on their own in-house canon.

 

Bioware have been allowing us to craft and mold the world along with them for the past couple games and as I said above, they're taking the time to reflect those choices when it comes to the characters that inhabit it.

 

Part of the reason people don't want to see either back, is the same reason why people often advise against meeting your heroes. They'll never live up to your expectations and probably not be the person you thought they were going to be. It's the same thing with Hawke and the Warden.

[DisturbedJim83]

Once again, you're focussing on supposed "ownership" (and I've been saying this sarcastically the entire time) and ignoring the valid reasons behind the argument of bringing them back?! No-one claims ownership of these characters, it's Bioware's wendy-house and they can play in it all they want!

 

The real argument is the problem of whether they can do these characters justice from their appearance in previous games. As I said with the Alex Mercer example from Prototype, if Bioware went that route and brought back the Warden or Hawke back as an utterly insane, baby-killing maniac, would that seriously not bother you? Unless you played as a complete thug in Origins and DA2, it would utterly ruin those characters for you.

 

The Bioware writers aren't stupid enough to do that. After all, the way that they're are apparently approaching Morrigan is to make her be either colder or warmer depending on whether the Warden either befriended or romanced her in Origins, showing that they're willing to have their characters change depending on your actions, not solely relying on their own in-house canon.

 

Bioware have been allowing us to craft and mold the world along with them for the past couple games and as I said above, they're taking the time to reflect those choices when it comes to the characters that inhabit it.

 

Part of the reason people don't want to see either back, is the same reason why people often advise against meeting your heroes. They'll never live up to your expectations and probably not be the person you thought they were going to be. It's the same thing with Hawke and the Warden.

To answer your main question , No it would not bother me in the slightest since I do not "own" Warden/Hawke The Keep is in effect Bioware's own version of the DAO Save Generator Tool Mod for DA2 that allowed you to generate a DAO Save to import into DA2 using checkboxes for all the possible choices that could be made in DAO including The Warden's race,gender, class which factions they sided with who they help/killed/saved etc.

The Keep effectively will work in a similar manner focusing on what is important and that is the choices you made as Warden and Hawke along with the basics like Race,Gender,Class,It is devoid of any personality.

 

Why Hawke/Warden made those choices are not relevant since that falls into each players Headcannon, the "why" is not included in the Warden/Hawke that would appear as a result of what you select in The Keep therefore it is not "your" Warden/Hawke making any objections irrelevant.What is being asked is equivalent to a Harry Potter fan saying that it is unreasonable for J.K Rowling to suggest in any further fictional works that Harry felt nothing for Hermonie " because in my headcannon he loved her but was to scared of rejection to ask"

 

Objecting to a character appearing/acting a certain way because it conflicts with what you projected onto said characteris not a valid objection because you did not create that character.

It does not matter if The Hawke I created in DA2 was a kind loving man yada.... yada.... yada  if the person who really created Hawke decides that in the best interest of the story in DAI that Hawke is a delusional psycho bloodmage then that is his/her/the company's right as the creator.

 

Object on something practical such as "Hawke can not appear in Orlais on Day X because existing BW cannon(insert source)clearly states he was in Tevinter......" not something that is subjective that is at best flawed reasoning because it exists in only one place your head. It not that hard a concept to grasp because just like Vegas what goes on in your head.....stays there.

 

Any Objection based on Headcannon is not a valid objection because no 2 players think exactly alike no 2 characters are exactly alike making any objection based on individual headcannon subjective and subjective is not a relevant or valid basis for objection.

[Uirebhiril]

People would complain that the voice they picked doesn't sound like the voice thats in their head for their Warden

 

If we could get over that for Shepard or Hawke, I can't help but think any objection would be a small, petty, and insignificant objection.

[Shadow Fox]

If we could get over that for Shepard or Hawke, I can't help but think any objection would be a small, petty, and insignificant objection.

It's also ignoring the Warden does have a voice you pick one when you make him/her.

 

Bioware just didn't have them speak in dialogue. 

[warden6788]

It's also ignoring the Warden does have a voice you pick one when you make him/her.

 

Bioware just didn't have them speak in dialogue. 

your correct when your creating the character they have a voice in combat and in awakening the warden has voices 

[DisturbedJim83]

It's also ignoring the Warden does have a voice you pick one when you make him/her.

 

Bioware just didn't have them speak in dialogue. 

Problem is some people take their role playing too seriously, I remember the old BSN where people would say things like " I demand that the Warden should never be voiced because My Warden was had a Scottish accent and if you voice him with a( insert accent here)It'll break my Immersion etc etc.

 

My response used to be " I get its all about escapism but if your taking your RP'ing this seriously then dude/dudette you need to get out more! because its a game not life or death!" I'd bet you $5 you can guess what the usual response was in 1 lol 

[ReallyRue]

So... is there some reason they couldn't/wouldn't just have someone do the voice for the Warden if it came down to it? Sure, they were silent in Origins, but is anyone really going to care if suddenly they have a voice? Seems it'd be the easiest thing to take care of if/when the Warden returns.

 

Bonus if those that are dead speak with an otherworldly beyond-the-grave echo....

Depending on how many lines the Warden has, couldn't they use the people who did the voice sets in Origins? Or similar. You could pick one in the Keep and then they use that if your character shows up. I'm not sure how feasible that is.

 

After all, the Warden wasn't technically silent in the same way as say, Skyrim's protagonist, who never says a thing. It's just that the Warden never uses their voice in conversations.

[DisturbedJim83]

Why are people so obsessed with having the Warden, Hawke and Inquisitor all together, all in the same game?

Well since as it has been 5yrs since DAO's release and 3yrs since DA2's release people would like to know what happened to both Warden/Hawke from Bioware's perspective/cannon or at least something more then the "they've mysteriously just vanished" they rightly feel that something more than a vague answer should be given since both previous games are technically no longer supported officially.

 

From what I recall in dev statements at the time the story in part of full from the cancelled DA2 Exhaulted Marches expansion was to be rolled into the next game which we now know to be DAI. 

[Jawzzus]

Depending on how many lines the Warden has, couldn't they use the people who did the voice sets in Origins? Or similar. You could pick one in the Keep and then they use that if your character shows up. I'm not sure how feasible that is.

 

After all, the Warden wasn't technically silent in the same way as say, Skyrim's protagonist, who never says a thing. It's just that the Warden never uses their voice in conversations.

 

 

They could except one, I think one of the male voices died unfortunately.

[warden6788]

Good idea

[Sifr]

To answer your main question , No it would not bother me in the slightest since I do not "own" Warden/Hawke The Keep is in effect Bioware's own version of the DAO Save Generator Tool Mod for DA2 that allowed you to generate a DAO Save to import into DA2 using checkboxes for all the possible choices that could be made in DAO including The Warden's race,gender, class which factions they sided with who they help/killed/saved etc.

The Keep effectively will work in a similar manner focusing on what is important and that is the choices you made as Warden and Hawke along with the basics like Race,Gender,Class,It is devoid of any personality.

 

Why Hawke/Warden made those choices are not relevant since that falls into each players Headcannon, the "why" is not included in the Warden/Hawke that would appear as a result of what you select in The Keep therefore it is not "your" Warden/Hawke making any objections irrelevant.What is being asked is equivalent to a Harry Potter fan saying that it is unreasonable for J.K Rowling to suggest in any further fictional works that Harry felt nothing for Hermonie " because in my headcannon he loved her but was to scared of rejection to ask"

 

Objecting to a character appearing/acting a certain way because it conflicts with what you projected onto said characteris not a valid objection because you did not create that character.

It does not matter if The Hawke I created in DA2 was a kind loving man yada.... yada.... yada  if the person who really created Hawke decides that in the best interest of the story in DAI that Hawke is a delusional psycho bloodmage then that is his/her/the company's right as the creator.

 

Object on something practical such as "Hawke can not appear in Orlais on Day X because existing BW cannon(insert source)clearly states he was in Tevinter......" not something that is subjective that is at best flawed reasoning because it exists in only one place your head. It not that hard a concept to grasp because just like Vegas what goes on in your head.....stays there.

 

Any Objection based on Headcannon is not a valid objection because no 2 players think exactly alike no 2 characters are exactly alike making any objection based on individual headcannon subjective and subjective is not a relevant or valid basis for objection.

 

Well, your argument doesn't work as you're example is a book with a set character and who's outcome doesn't rely on the reader picking it, simply going along for the ride. If Harry Potter was able to romance Hermione in a pick-your-own-adventure book, it'd work, but since we're talking about a RPG it doesn't.

 

Did Harry have feelings for Hermione? No, at least, he never admitted it nor showed any signs of attraction to her which we saw, and he was our viewpoint character. Does that mean he never felt anything to her? No again, because she's a very close friend and he's a teenage boy, who tend to fancy everyone on some level. Much like Dumbledore being gay, it's something that you'd have to take up with JK Rowling, who knows details about those characters that were never in the novel itself.

 

A better example would have been Varric and whether everything he told Cassandra in DA2 was true, since he's prone to exaggerating at the best of times. Since the entire game was a story within a story, it lends itself well to Death of the Author and WMG about what really happened?

 

_{(Personally, I'm fond of the idea that Anders acting different from Awakening was because the moody, aloof apostate mage was just how Varric saw him. Given how he blew up the Chantry, could you blame him for making the guy's negative traits more dominant? But the real answer is probably his character changing due to merging with Justice, which is just as good an explanation for me)}

 

No-one is arguing that Bioware owns these characters and can use them in the manner in which they see fit. But the reason why they have avoided any mention of the Warden or Hawke and the specific details of the first two games in the novels, because it leaves open the door for the reader to insert their own idea of what happened into it, as well as who the Warden and Hawke were?

 

If the Warden and Hawke appear in Inquisition, it'd be fine as long as their appearance is meaningful or serves some function to the narrative. Same as if they died or reappeared in an antagonistic role to the Inquisitor, it'd only work if it fit the story. No-one wants to see them just appear for a meaningless cameo.

 

That has nothing to do with headcanons/fanon, it has to do with the characters being important to the fans.

[BlueMagitek]

I really don't think so.  The Warden stopped a blight (perhaps dying in the process), Hawke discovered red lyrium; neither of those have anything to do with directly closing the rips.

 

Do we really want our new pc to go and beg help from our old pcs? :/

[DisturbedJim83]

I really don't think so.  The Warden stopped a blight (perhaps dying in the process), Hawke discovered red lyrium; neither of those have anything to do with directly closing the rips.

 

Do we really want our new pc to go and beg help from our old pcs? :/

It wouldn't hurt The Inquisitor to have both Hawke/Warden's aid,regardless of which class either was they both have extensive combat experience, and if going by BW Cannon which IIRC was a Amell Mage Warden and a Mage Hawke(related to The Amell Mage Warden) both have extensive experience with The Fade and combating Fade Demons and also Darkspawn although its unlikely darkspawn would play a major part.

[Sifr]

I recall reading a while ago that the supposed Bioware canon Warden was a female Dalish Elf who chose the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, although I'm not sure if that's still true?

 

If the Warden is dead in their default canon, I must admit that I'd be interested to see what they did with the Orlesian Warden-Commander who took their place in Awakening, since most people rarely ever play them and they're largely overlooked. Do they still exist in the non-Ultimate Sacrifice ending? And it'd give them a good reason for being in Orlais if they did show up.

[DisturbedJim83]

I recall reading a while ago that the supposed Bioware canon Warden was a female Dalish Elf who chose the Ultimate Sacrifice ending, although I'm not sure if that's still true?

 

If the Warden is dead in their default canon, I must admit that I'd be interested to see what they did with the Orlesian Warden-Commander who took their place in Awakening, since most people rarely ever play them and they're largely overlooked. Do they still exist in the non-Ultimate Sacrifice ending? And it'd give them a good reason for being in Orlais if they did show up.

I could be wrong on my recall of bioware cannon as after in excess of 2000 hrs across both games along with reading all the books and comics numerous times things get a little muddled lol.

 

Generally though the way that always made sense to me when doing a playthrough for save import into DA2 was either a human noble warden/human mage warden who did the dark ritual and then killed the Architect and saved Amaranthine, The Orlesian WC always felt like a afterthought to me when I play DAO:A

[warden6788]

I remember tweeting mike I while back asking how big off a role the warden or hawke will have in inquisition he said thats not a question that he can answer at the time. that's the closest I've gotten to finding out whether hawke or the warden will show up just thought about mentioning that.

[Swoopdogg]

Maybe in Dragon Age 4 we'll be able to switch between all three protags (warden/hawke/quizzy) throughout the game. Though that would get...

 

overwhelming.

 

At some point in the series we are going to have to tie up all these loose ends, and we're going to have to meet our PC's from previous games. I just don't see it ending in any other way and it still being satisfying to the player.

 

That said, I doubt Inquisition is the time nor place for that.

 

But who the flemeth knows

[DisturbedJim83]

Maybe in Dragon Age 4 we'll be able to switch between all three protags (warden/hawke/quizzy) throughout the game. Though that would get...

 

overwhelming.

 

At some point in the series we are going to have to tie up all these loose ends, and we're going to have to meet our PC's from previous games. I just don't see it ending in any other way and it still being satisfying to the player.

 

That said, I doubt Inquisition is the time nor place for that.

 

But who the flemeth knows

True but Andraste's Knickers it would be satisfying though  

[Little Princess Peach]

my inquisitor if given the chance will kill both hawke and the warden they both outlived there usefulness.

wait Hawke was useful?

[Solas]

 

At some point in the series we are going to have to tie up all these loose ends, and we're going to have to meet our PC's from previous games. I just don't see it ending in any other way and it still being satisfying to the player.

 

That said, I doubt Inquisition is the time nor place for that.

 

But who the flemeth knows

I really don't think we have to at all

[Swoopdogg]

I really don't think we have to at all

Well we don't necessarily have to, but if you have a story that ends with a bunch of loose ends (and I'm pretty dang sure that simply not explaining what happens to previous protagonists constitutes as a loose end) then that story is extremely vulnerable to fan rage and mass hysteria. Also, personally, I love when a story finally comes full circle and ties up loose ends in a satisfying way, and when that doesn't happen, I tend to be... well, unsatisfied.

[warden6788]

Well we don't necessarily have to, but if you have a story that ends with a bunch of loose ends (and I'm pretty dang sure that simply not explaining what happens to previous protagonists constitutes as a loose end) then that story is extremely vulnerable to fan rage and mass hysteria. Also, personally, I love when a story finally comes full circle and ties up loose ends in a satisfying way, and when that doesn't happen, I tend to be... well, unsatisfied.

Preach eventually we will have to play as one of the previous characters the warden or hawke or have there stories finished up the inquisitor I hope bioware doesn't pull a the inquisitor vanished too and if they do and least mention where he went and what he's doing

[TheKomandorShepard]

Preach eventually we will have to play as one of the previous characters the warden or hawke or have there stories finished up the inquisitor I hope bioware doesn't pull a the inquisitor vanished too and if they do and least mention where he went and what he's doing

Where it is said that we will have to play as them or ther "story" have to be finished as long character lives their story lasts we just don't have see that in fact many hereos of rpg games end like that as simple it is up to player where hereos went after and because it can't be determined as protagonist was created by player and how he react to something is up to them.

[Devtek]

I just think it will be weird from a story perspective if they aren't at least talked about by a bunch of characters because the whole "point" of DA2 was supposed to be Cassandra and Leliana trying to find out where the two went in order to help sort out the "world ending conflict" erupting around Thedas which in the end results with the Inquisition needing to be started again (because the Warden and Hawke can't be found?). It would just be odd for both C & L to completely ignore their whole purpose for the previous game.  The fact that Hawke was directly involved with the start of the Mage-Templar war and that the Warden (depending on your choices so this one is a bit harder) helped to carve out a Grey Warden city state and join Morrigan through the mirror.  The warden in that case would have been spending months trying to find her, go through the mirror then...what...just disappear again after spending all that time to track her down to follow he, to be with her? In that particular world state I think it would be cool if the Warden turned up in a cameo as Morrigans consort / arm candy at the big ball we are apparently going to be attending.  If you bring Cassandra with you then she could make a single line comment about "instead of searching the world for you we should have just looked in the last place we would expect".

 

Even if they don't physically appear in the game, they should be talked about again because their actions with other characters who are going to be in DAI means that those characters would be affected by that interaction.  Hell, Varric could randomly start spouting out stories about "if hawke was here" or "did I tell you about that time we found red lyrium".  Stuff like that would be a cool reference to the past games without taking away from the Inquisitor's story.

 

Interesting event for a future DA would be having to play the Warden's calling imo.