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[Daemul]

Double Post

[Daemul]

It seems that pretty much nobody who supports not curing the Genophage realizes the simple fact that although the salarians don't join the allied fleets, they're still going to be fighting. Fighting independantly perhaps, but still an organized defence against the Reapers.

 

Whereas the krogan would almost certainly be pretty much a lost resource.

Only Urdnot. If you have Eve alive the rest of the Krogan Clans remain in the war. 

[Farangbaa]

It seems that pretty much nobody who supports not curing the Genophage realizes the simple fact that although the salarians don't join the allied fleets, they're still going to be fighting. Fighting independantly perhaps, but still an organized defence against the Reapers.

 

Whereas the krogan would almost certainly be pretty much a lost resource.

 

Thank God we have you here.

[Sundance31us]

It wouldn't be hard for him to know that, but he also has to realize that if the Salarian Councilor is saved, their fleets are given as a thank you I believe. And if the councilor is killed, why couldn't he accept that the Salarians might want to help stop the reapers?

 

True, but the confrontation with Wrex doesn't take place right away.

From the Wiki:
"The genophage's modus operandi is not to reduce the fertility of krogan females, but rather the probability of viable pregnancies: many krogan die in stillbirth, with most fetuses never even reaching this stage of development."   http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Genophage

I suspect there was a lot of..."celebrating" on Tuchanka after the cure (or after they thought there was a cure), which was followed by a relatively short gestation period and lord knows how many stillbirths.

Between hearing the recording and the stillbirths…Wrex just isn’t in a mood to talk. At least that's how I usually play it.

[Excella Gionne]

The Krogans aren't a lost resource. Without them, most military forces of other species may have been wiped out.

[DuskWanderer]

Honestly, this is my common playthrough. The game is infinitely richer when Wrex is dead.

 

Think about it, in ME3, all of the characters are beyond cliche: Wrex is the noble "I am not my race" stereotype who is long suffering, his people are violent, but "deserve" something for their suffering. The salarians come off as complete genocidal monsters without any sense in their heads. All of the violence that krogan do is utterly ignored and they submit behind Wrex, no question (mind you, krogan are tribal)

 

It's cliche and completely unrealistic. It was reduced to a single statement: "Krogan good, salarian bad"

 

Wreav as the leader, is different. He's a brutish thug, doesn't pretend to be anything else, and you know he's a monster, you just need his help. Both Wreav and Linron are evil, it's a matter of which evil to choose.

 

In my playthroughs, Wrex never makes it off Virmire.

[Excella Gionne]

The whole entire story itself became a cliche, it's just race themselves that aren't too cliche but they still carry those redundant traits. 

[Kurt M.]

Oh, please, and Wreav being a stupid, archetypical Krogan brute isn't a chiclé? What a biased comment you wrote.

 

In any case, "mutants" like Wrex are the ones who precisely AREN'T the cliché, just because of their innate rarity. How many polite and patient krogan do you exactly see in the game, apart from Wrex (who deserves a ****** monument for his patience), Thax' assistant and Charr? If they're a cliché, then EVERYTHING about the krogan is a cliché (and thus you can also say that nothing is).

 

And yes, krogan may be violent, but that's why someone like Wrex is needed. And him being in charge is more an amazing achievement than anything else. I can't even imagine how tough it must have been for him, fighting against just about everyone to gain his sit in the throne, instead of everyone just agreeing to it like it probably happened with Wreav.

 

So yep, Wrex is probably the very example of krogan "anticliché".

[Bardox9]

 

Watch this then tell me how curing the Genophage ends well.

[Comrade Wakizashi]

I see no reason to side with the Dalatrass on this, and as such I never did. I spill the story to Eve, Mordin/Wiks and Wrex/Wreav as soon as I get the chance, without a doubt. Seriously, even if the horror stories of the salarian Dalatrass are to come true, I'm sure STG can easily just genophage them again if need be.

The krogan have paid enough for their mistakes of centuries ago. I sort of like the salarians in general, more than I like most krogan, but that doesn't mean I'll allow them to play god for all eternity.

[Kurt M.]

 

Watch this then tell me how curing the Genophage ends well.

 

It does if you press that Renegade interrupt

[Comrade Wakizashi]

 

Watch this then tell me how curing the Genophage ends well.

 

Unless you did some weird stuff in that quest, Clan Weyrloc does not hold much sway in Mass Effect 3 or later...

[congokong]

My canon Shepard did exactly this.

 

http://forum.bioware...shepards-story/

 

It was a playthrough largely based on what I'd do if this were real without meta-gaming. I'd rather shoot Wrex than lower my weapon on him when he raises it when I'm trying to be diplomatic. People like him but Wrex was a thug, mercenary, and murderer. They turned him into the advocate for the krogan future but remember... no meta-gaming.

 

I sabotaged the cure because Wreav was in charge. Then it was a no-brainer. Even with a Wrex/Eve pair-up curing the genophage would've been a galactic mistake if there was an alternative that would also aid the war effort; i.e. get salarian aid.

[AlexMBrennan]

It seems that pretty much nobody who supports not curing the Genophage realizes the simple fact that although the salarians don't join the allied fleets, they're still going to be fighting. Fighting independantly perhaps, but still an organized defence against the Reapers.

 

Who cares? The war is lost, and there is no way we can win without our hail mary doomsday device so unless the salerians help build it they might just as well not show up for the war. 

 

Whereas the krogan would almost certainly be pretty much a lost resource.

Who cares? The krogan are infantry, and assuming they are smart enough to operate spaceships they it will take them ages to contribute to this fight. The only reason we need to cure the genophage is that the turians won't help with the crucible unless you do. 

[Kurt M.]

My canon Shepard did exactly this.

 

http://forum.bioware...shepards-story/

 

It was a playthrough largely based on what I'd do if this were real without meta-gaming. I'd rather shoot Wrex than lower my weapon on him when he raises it when I'm trying to be diplomatic. People like him but Wrex was a thug, mercenary, and murderer. They turned him into the advocate for the krogan future but remember... no meta-gaming.

 

I sabotaged the cure because Wreav was in charge. Then it was a no-brainer. Even with a Wrex/Eve pair-up curing the genophage would've been a galactic mistake if there was an alternative that would also aid the war effort; i.e. get salarian aid.

 

Murderer? And Shepard spends his days giving flowers and peace to everybody? If Wrex is a murderer, then every soldier in the galaxy is one, too. The only difference is their allegiance.

 

BTW, Salarian War Effort, even with the genophage sabotaged, is pretty pathetic. And so I prefer to give a chance to a 'young' and honorable race rather than aid those who only wants to save their own arse.

[cap and gown]

Murderer? And Shepard spends his days giving flowers and peace to everybody? If Wrex is a murderer, then every soldier in the galaxy is one, too. The only difference is their allegiance.

 

Have you not talked to Wrex in ME1? Have you never brought him along when you confront Fist? The dude is a self-confessed murderer and pirate. He kills Fist in cold blood because he was paid to. I.E. the dude is a hitman. He killed an entire Volus ship full of guards and, one assumes, Volus merchant marines. Wrex IS a thug in ME1.

[congokong]

Honestly, this is my common playthrough. The game is infinitely richer when Wrex is dead.

 

Think about it, in ME3, all of the characters are beyond cliche: Wrex is the noble "I am not my race" stereotype who is long suffering, his people are violent, but "deserve" something for their suffering. The salarians come off as complete genocidal monsters without any sense in their heads. All of the violence that krogan do is utterly ignored and they submit behind Wrex, no question (mind you, krogan are tribal)

 

It's cliche and completely unrealistic. It was reduced to a single statement: "Krogan good, salarian bad"

 

Wreav as the leader, is different. He's a brutish thug, doesn't pretend to be anything else, and you know he's a monster, you just need his help. Both Wreav and Linron are evil, it's a matter of which evil to choose.

 

In my playthroughs, Wrex never makes it off Virmire.

The writers were trying to manipulate our emotions because through the whole series everything we know about the krogan suggests a cured genophage would be very bad. They gave a horrifying default 1,000 eggs/year birthrate to see how far we'd take idealism.

Then we see the krogans are racists, violent, have 1,000 years life-spans, and share disturbing ideals like taking pride in surviving the destruction of their homeworld. So how are they going to convince people to cure the genophage? Emotions of course. Make the leader of the krogan a peaceful reformist who happens to be your old war buddy. Have Wrex go on about working towards a new future without ever addressing just how they will solve the inevitable overpopulation problem without something like the genophage. Also, ignore that the krogan were fully capable of this "paradise" Wrex envisions without birthing 1,000 children a year. They've always had the opportunity but their own aggression is killing them as Wrex put it in ME1. Then make the dalatrass a straw-man meant to make pro-genophage supporters look heartless.

 

Wreav as the leader just reinforces the fears regarding the krogan as he has typical male traits. Most players with Wreav in charge are probably already intent on not curing the genophage since they killed Wrex off and likely aren't very pro-krogan in their playthrough unless they simply didn't play ME1.

[congokong]

Murderer? And Shepard spends his days giving flowers and peace to everybody? If Wrex is a murderer, then every soldier in the galaxy is one, too. The only difference is their allegiance.

 

BTW, Salarian War Effort, even with the genophage sabotaged, is pretty pathetic. And so I prefer to give a chance to a 'young' and honorable race rather than aid those who only wants to save their own arse.

Wrex was a mercenary who raided trading vessels and killed the people onboard. Those were innocents. When Shepard kills someone it's usually armed people trying to kill him/her unless you're playing a sadistic playthrough and do the occasional thing like let the high Volus on Samara's recruitment mission march to his death.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Have you not talked to Wrex in ME1? Have you never brought him along when you confront Fist? The dude is a self-confessed murderer and pirate. He kills Fist in cold blood because he was paid to. I.E. the dude is a hitman. He killed an entire Volus ship full of guards and, one assumes, Volus merchant marines. Wrex IS a thug in ME1.

 

So Wrex is 100% guilty and the Shadow Broker isnt? Hypocrisy much? The hit on Fist was ordered because he betrayed the Broker.

 

On another note, I guess that means wanting to help Thane is wrong cause hes a hitman (murderer) under your logic.

 

The writers were trying to manipulate our emotions because through the whole series everything we know about the krogan suggests a cured genophage would be very bad. They gave a horrifying default 1,000 eggs/year birthrate to see how far we'd take idealism.

Then we see the krogans are racists, violent, have 1,000 years life-spans, and share disturbing ideals like taking pride in surviving the destruction of their homeworld. So how are they going to convince people to cure the genophage? Emotions of course. Make the leader of the krogan a peaceful reformist who happens to be your old war buddy. Have Wrex go on about working towards a new future without ever addressing just how they will solve the inevitable overpopulation problem without something like the genophage. Also, ignore that the krogan were fully capable of this "paradise" Wrex envisions without birthing 1,000 children a year. They've always had the opportunity but their own aggression is killing them as Wrex put it in ME1. Then make the dalatrass a straw-man meant to make pro-genophage supporters look heartless.

 

Wreav as the leader just reinforces the fears regarding the krogan as he has typical male traits. Most players with Wreav in charge are probably already intent on not curing the genophage since they killed Wrex off and likely aren't very pro-krogan in their playthrough unless they simply didn't play ME1.

 

Ignoring the Dalatrass' obviously biased and xenophobic ways, there are still good reasons to not cure the Genophage, and it comes down to if someone wants to take the risk on the Krogan making good on their change if Wrex/Eve are in charge, leave them as is because Wreav is an *******, or leave things as is because the player's views are their own and they are free to make their mind up.

[congokong]

So Wrex is 100% guilty and the Shadow Broker isnt? Hypocrisy much? The hit on Fist was ordered because he betrayed the Broker.

 

On another note, I guess that means wanting to help Thane is wrong cause hes a hitman (murderer) under your logic.

 

Cap/Gown never said Wrex was 100% guilty. Honestly I have no problem with Wrex killing Fist. The guy was a scumbag. But killing the people on a Volus trading vessel for the goods is cut-and-dry wrong and makes Wrex a murderer.

 

No one ever said helping/not helping Thane because he's a murderer is wrong. Just because someone like Wrex or Thane is a murderer doesn't mean you cannot use them for an important mission. And if helping them with loyalty quests helps ensure a mission's success, then fine. I wouldn't feel terrible putting such a person down when they raise a weapon on me however.

[cap and gown]

So Wrex is 100% guilty and the Shadow Broker isnt? Hypocrisy much? The hit on Fist was ordered because he betrayed the Broker.

 

On another note, I guess that means wanting to help Thane is wrong cause hes a hitman (murderer) under your logic.

 

 

What hypocrisy are you talking about? I said Wrex is a hitman, i.e. a murderer. Since when is being a hit man not being a murderer? And I said absolutely nothing about the Shadow Broker.

 

As to Thane, where did he come into this discussion?

 

You are pulling things out of left field here.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

What hypocrisy are you talking about? I said Wrex is a hitman, i.e. a murderer. Since when is being a hit man not being a murderer? And I said absolutely nothing about the Shadow Broker.

 

As to Thane, where did he come into this discussion?

 

You are pulling things out of left field here.

 

One, you are ignoring that Wrex had a job to do. You expect him to just not do what he was already paid to do? Or worse, in the case of the raid on the Volus ship, refuse to do his job with an employer that would have killed him for refusing? Or does Wrex not have a right to self preservation in that position?

 

Two, you are making an huge deal out of Wrex and ignoring the other hitman thats been on the Normandy crew, hence the mention of Thane

[cap and gown]

One, you are ignoring that Wrex had a job to do. You expect him to just not do what he was already paid to do? Or worse, in the case of the raid on the Volus ship, refuse to do his job with an employer that would have killed him for refusing? Or does Wrex not have a right to self preservation in that position?

 

Two, you are making an huge deal out of Wrex and ignoring the other hitman thats been on the Normandy crew, hence the mention of Thane

 

So if someone pays you to commit murder you are not a murderer?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

You get over it, shooting Mordin was the hardest part, but once you get past that you can do the rest. It had to be done sadly, for the good of the galaxy.  

 

Didn't even! The first sabotage I did was the "Kosher" version: Eve died, Wreav ruled, so Shep talked (Not-)Mordin out of going forward with the cure.

 

Still, what the genophage does is a truly cruel way to punish them -- almost all their offspring die, and the parents live with the psychogical pain from that. And you decide to let that continue. Even Wreav does not deserve to suffer that, IMO. It would be more dignified to just bomb them all to hell and destroy their species. So I felt pretty guilty about that for the rest of the game. Wasn't expecting that at all.

 

I am over it now, and looking back, I would do it again. Then again, none of this is real; it's just a game I play. Yet I still felt bad about it. So, I saw how Mordin could know in his head it had to be done, but still feel guilty about it and want to be rid of the sin even at the expense of all good sense.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

So if someone pays you to commit murder you are not a murderer?

 

I like to look at it from Thane's point of view. Do you place blame on the gun or the person using the gun?