113 réponses à ce sujet

[Kurt M.]

Have you not talked to Wrex in ME1? Have you never brought him along when you confront Fist? The dude is a self-confessed murderer and pirate. He kills Fist in cold blood because he was paid to. I.E. the dude is a hitman. He killed an entire Volus ship full of guards and, one assumes, Volus merchant marines. Wrex IS a thug in ME1.

 

 

Wrex was a mercenary who raided trading vessels and killed the people onboard. Those were innocents. When Shepard kills someone it's usually armed people trying to kill him/her unless you're playing a sadistic playthrough and do the occasional thing like let the high Volus on Samara's recruitment mission march to his death.

 

So....killing someone for money or for some other personal profit...even if it means to work with some shady organizations or governments. It sounds me of something...ah, yes! SOLDIERS!

 

With the exception of vocational soldiers (which aren't many), and possibly the Alliance being a bit better than RL governments, I honestly don't see the difference.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I like to look at it from Thane's point of view. Do you place blame on the gun or the person using the gun?

 

I blame the person who can and does sign the contract in full knowledge.

[themikefest]

I like to look at it from Thane's point of view. Do you place blame on the gun or the person using the gun?

The person.

 

How many guns do you know that pull its own trigger?

[KaiserShep]

The person.
 
How many guns do you know that pull its own trigger?

Well, there's Megatron.

[Bardox9]

It does if you press that Renegade interrupt

 

 

Unless you did some weird stuff in that quest, Clan Weyrloc does not hold much sway in Mass Effect 3 or later...

 

The Weyrloc clan speaker gives voice to the views of the majority of the Krogan. Even walking around Clan Urdnots camp you find Krogan talking about attacking other races in ME2. Wrex and Bakara(Eve) do not represent the populous views on the Krogan seeking revenge. Considering the Krogans tradition of Killing off leadership, how many assination attempt do you thing Wrex and/or Bakara can fend off?

 

I too would like to believe that the Krogan have learned that violent expansion is not the best course for their Race and they should focus on rebuilding their war torn planet and not exploding populations beyond sustainable levels, but (other than Wrex and Bakara) I have seen no evidence that they would take this path. I see a race that feels they deserve vengeance for the Genophage and will not let a small number of nay sayers prevent them from taking their revenge.

 

The risks are too great to take a leap of faith.

[cap and gown]

 

Still, what the genophage does is a truly cruel way to punish them -- almost all their offspring die, and the parents live with the psychogical pain from that. And you decide to let that continue. Even Wreav does not deserve to suffer that, IMO. It would be more dignified to just bomb them all to hell and destroy their species. So I felt pretty guilty about that for the rest of the game. Wasn't expecting that at all.

 

You are aware, I assume, of what  Patriarch says about Krogan treatment of children before the genophage? Why would you assume that parents care about their children except as cannon fodder?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

You are aware, I assume, of what  Patriarch says about Krogan treatment of children before the genophage?

 
I am not, in fact.

 

If I did hear it, I do not remember it now.
 

Why would you assume that parents care about their children except as cannon fodder?

 

Some parents may not care, but I've seen enough to indicate that many do. Weyloc Speaker sounded pretty emotional about re: Paragon Shepard. Wrex did too, saying things like, "You want to know about genocide, Vakarian? I'll take you to a krogan obstetrician's office." And then of course there are the females, like Eve, and the ones she tells us about that go wander off to get eaten by Thresher Maws.

[cap and gown]

Well, just think about it. 1000 children in a year. How much concern can you have for any particular child? The dialogue about "my son" sounds totally absurd when you realize that if that Krogan was with a fertile female, he would not have had just A son, but hundreds, and hundreds of daughters as well.

 

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the Krogan: they are a social and biological absurdity. They are a testament to the fact that no one at BW seems know anything about science. They started out in fantasy and imported that mind set where anything goes into a sci-fi setting and I just don't buy it. You can't really make me care about something if it goes so far against logic and nature that I can't suspend disbelief.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Well, just think about it. 1000 children in a year. How much concern can you have for any particular child? The dialogue about "my son" sounds totally absurd when you realize that if that Krogan was with a fertile female, he would not have had just A son, but hundreds, and hundreds of daughters as well.

 

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the Krogan: they are a social and biological absurdity. They are a testament to the fact that no one at BW seems know anything about science. They started out in fantasy and imported that mind set where anything goes into a sci-fi setting and I just don't buy it. You can't really make me care about something if it goes so far against logic and nature that I can't suspend disbelief.

 

Just about everyone calls bullshit on that figure because it doesnt line up with anything that is shown in regards to Krogan reproduction.

[cap and gown]

Just about everyone calls bullshit on that figure because it doesnt line up with anything that is shown in regards to Krogan reproduction.

 

Well, I wish I could call bs on that. But that is the figure used over and over again, whether by Mordin, or EDI, or others.

[Obadiah]

I am not, in fact.

If I did hear it, I do not remember it now.
...

Oh, its good. Patriarch remembers before the Genophage, and says something along the lines of remembering when Krogan children picked up their first weapons and killed their siblings.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Well, I wish I could call bs on that. But that is the figure used over and over again, whether by Mordin, or EDI, or others.

 

Shame we cant though, cause it requires meta knowledge.

[congokong]

Or worse, in the case of the raid on the Volus ship, refuse to do his job with an employer that would have killed him for refusing? Or does Wrex not have a right to self preservation in that position?

 

Now where did you pull this scenario where Wrex was forced to kill everyone on the Volus ship? Even if he was, he could always run away. The galaxy is a big place.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Now where did you pull this scenario where Wrex was forced to kill everyone on the Volus ship? Even if he was, he could always run away. The galaxy is a big place.

 

ME1, ya know, the story he told about the job he did for Saren. The one where he got such a bad feeling from the one time he saw Saren that he ditched and didnt get paid. Ya know, the one where every other merc that didnt leave died afterwards.

[congokong]

So....killing someone for money or for some other personal profit...even if it means to work with some shady organizations or governments. It sounds me of something...ah, yes! SOLDIERS!

 

With the exception of vocational soldiers (which aren't many), and possibly the Alliance being a bit better than RL governments, I honestly don't see the difference.

Hey, I'm not about to defend real-life soldiers if that's what you're expecting. I will defend my Shepard though since she was compared to Wrex. She only kills people who try to stop her from saving the galaxy. Wrex kills people on trading vessels for money. You don't see the difference?

[congokong]

ME1, ya know, the story he told about the job he did for Saren. The one where he got such a bad feeling from the one time he saw Saren that he ditched and didnt get paid. Ya know, the one where every other merc that didnt leave died afterwards.

That was after he murdered everyone. And you proved my point. He ran away. He could've done that before butchering the people on that ship if he was "forced" to do it as you claim ...ya know.

[BurningBlood]

I did this in a non-import game.  Does that still count?

[Excella Gionne]

Well, just think about it. 1000 children in a year. How much concern can you have for any particular child? The dialogue about "my son" sounds totally absurd when you realize that if that Krogan was with a fertile female, he would not have had just A son, but hundreds, and hundreds of daughters as well.

 

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the Krogan: they are a social and biological absurdity. They are a testament to the fact that no one at BW seems know anything about science. They started out in fantasy and imported that mind set where anything goes into a sci-fi setting and I just don't buy it. You can't really make me care about something if it goes so far against logic and nature that I can't suspend disbelief.

That is why I disregard everything EDI said on the Normandy about Krogan Females having a clutch of 1,000 eggs.... that line messes everything up! If that line did not exist there would not be so much confusion, but there would still be but just not as much. 

[themageguy]

Well, there's Megatron.

I laughed so hard at this.
Thanks!

[cap and gown]

That is why I disregard everything EDI said on the Normandy about Krogan Females having a clutch of 1,000 eggs.... that line messes everything up! If that line did not exist there would not be so much confusion, but there would still be but just not as much. 

 

Don't you also have to ignore Mordin as well since he talks about 1 in 1000 being a replacement rate?

[Excella Gionne]

Don't you also have to ignore Mordin as well since he talks about 1 in 1000 being a replacement rate?

I always thought of that as statistics for 1/1000 being the rate for non-stillborn babies. I might be saying it wrong though, but maybe it's the probability that a krogan baby does become stillborn...?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Agh... they never got the krogan birth thing straight. At times, it's said to be clutches of eggs. At other times, it's treated like live birth. Wrex's "my unborn son," calling their females "pregnant," her also saying "when my child didn't draw breath" as opposed to saying "my children..."

 

 

I just go with live birth, and figure that the krogan's durability and long lifespans make them enough of a population threat.

[Excella Gionne]

 Agh... they never got the krogan birth thing straight. At times, it's said to be clutches of eggs. At other times, it's treated like live birth. Wrex's "my unborn son," calling their females "pregnant," her also saying "when my child didn't draw breath" as opposed to saying "my children..."

 

 

I just go with live birth, and figure that the krogan's durability and long lifespans make them enough of a population threat.

Well, yeah, that's what I think about their reproduction and stuff...I believe they give live births. The switching of writers just made small things too complicated...

 

Any species can be a population threat, but Asaris would be second to that since Krogans and Asaris have the same life span. Asaris may not be brutes, but they can be a deadly force 'cause of them biotics and espionage skillz.....

[Dabrikishaw]

I've done this once, for a character that was able to cur the Genophage and keep all the Krogan War Assets without a problem. For extra kick, I also let the Turian Bomb go off for the extra dialogue.

[Aimi]

She only kills people who try to stop her from saving the galaxy. Wrex kills people on trading vessels for money. You don't see the difference?

So I'm guessing 'your' Shepard doesn't do any UNC missions or anything like that, just the main plot stuff?