167 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

If you believe it happened, it happened. The videogame caring potential ME series carries with it gives you the power to reject those parts of it which you consider unacceptable. If you believe ME2 is a false follow-up, then it is a false follow-up, if you need it to be so. Needless to say, I don't.

 

Indeed.  For me, ME2 is as much of a sequel to ME1 as ME3 is a sequel to the previous two games, for better and for worse. 

 

The sooner you realize they all have flaws and suffer from similar issues, the better.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Indeed.  For me, ME2 is as much of a sequel to ME1 as ME3 is a sequel to the previous two games, for better and for worse. 

 

The sooner you realize they all have flaws and suffer from similar issues, the better.

 

Personally, I think ME3 was a sequel to ME1 without being a sequel to ME2. ME2 was a sequel to ME1 as well, though it feels oddly out of place in the trilogy. Granted, I think it's as much fault as ME3 as it is the own games fault for that.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I think a way to tie in the ME2 story line, I.E. the Collectors, to ME3 would be to have it so that there aren't that many actual Sovereign-Class Reapers, like 10-20, but they have huge, Collector-like fleets enthralled to them. 

[dreamgazer]

Personally, I think ME3 was a sequel to ME1 without being a sequel to ME2. ME2 was a sequel to ME1 as well, though it feels oddly out of place in the trilogy. Granted, I think it's as much fault as ME3 as it is the own games fault for that.

 

It was more of a sequel to ME1 than ME2, yeah, but it still worked with plenty of the core ME2 elements and frequently referred back to it.

 

About as much as ME2 did with ME1, at least.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

I think a way to tie in the ME2 story line, I.E. the Collectors, to ME3 would be to have it so that there aren't that many actual Sovereign-Class Reapers, like 10-20, but they have huge, Collector-like fleets enthralled to them. 

 

I like this human... err, volus. He understands!

 

That's just one of the ideas that could work.

[Iakus]

I think a way to tie in the ME2 story line, I.E. the Collectors, to ME3 would be to have it so that there aren't that many actual Sovereign-Class Reapers, like 10-20, but they have huge, Collector-like fleets enthralled to them. 

 

That's essentially what I thought we'd get:

 

Maybe a couple hundred Sovereign-like ships, and fleets of indoctrinated/huskified forces

[dreamgazer]

"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world" doesn't sound like a couple hundred standard Reapers and their peons, though.

[AlanC9]

Wouldn't that many Sovereigns just curbstomp the Citadel forces anyway?

Edit: the couple of dozen TOTBG is suggesting would be doable. Designing the game around a CV is a challenge, though.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world" doesn't sound like a couple hundred standard Reapers and their peons, though.

Well, that could be considered hyperbole. 

And by peons I mean enthralled races accumulated over millions and millions of years. 

[Farangbaa]

"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world" doesn't sound like a couple hundred standard Reapers and their peons, though.

 

These people only value the information in the game that allows them to play the story they wanted to play.

[Iakus]

Wouldn't that many Sovereigns just curbstomp the Citadel forces anyway?

 

 

Yes.  If they focused their strength.  Like, say, if they shut off the relay network so they could attack the systems a few at a time.

 

But every Reaper you took down would feel like a real victory.

 

How does killing a Reaper on Tuchanka or Rannoch feel like a major win when there's ten thousand more just like it, and those were little ones?

[Iakus]

These people only value the information in the game that allows them to play the story they wanted to play.

 

"These people" 

[dreamgazer]

Well, that could be considered hyperbole. 

 

If it's hyperbole, it's not far off.  Remember, we're not working with just two life cycles here.  They've been successful for millions of years.

[Jorji Costava]

"Our numbers will darken the sky of every world" doesn't sound like a couple hundred standard Reapers and their peons, though.

 

If all we're doing here is Monday Morning Quarterbacking anyways, then maybe they could have just not written that line. Just because there's a line of dialogue that suggests X doesn't mean that X must be the best story idea.

 

Also, I don't think retcons are the end of the world. In "Q Who," the episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation which introduces the Borg, it's established quite clearly that the Borg are only interested in our technology; no reference to assimilation is made. That whole idea is introduced only in "The Best of Both Worlds." I don't really think the change ruined that episode; same goes with ME as far as I'm concerned.

[Eryri]

Well, that could be considered hyperbole. 
And by peons I mean enthralled races accumulated over millions and millions of years.

And Sovereign also described the Reapers as having existed forever, so he wasn't exactly a stranger to exaggeration. I like this idea. I've often though that ME3 raised the stackes far too high, too fast by introducing so many reapers.

[dreamgazer]

Yeah, but retconning formidable mecha-Cthulhu, who have been exterminating life as it's known for millions of years, into a "conventionally" defeatable foe just because Sovereign's plan was thwarted this time (this has only happened once?) is bonkers.

 

If all we're doing here is Monday Morning Quarterbacking anyways, then maybe they could have just not written that line.

 

Now you're talking. 

 

And Sovereign also described the Reapers as having existed forever, so he wasn't exactly a stranger to exaggeration. I like this idea. I've often though that ME3 raised the stackes far too high, too fast by introducing so many reapers.

 

Exaggerating millions upon millions of years of existence with "eternal" isn't the same as kneecapping the "darken the sky" Reapers into a few hundred, though.  If they wanted the Reapers to be a more manageable foe, then some work needs to be done on ME1. 

[Iakus]

 

Exaggerating millions upon millions of years of existence with "eternal" isn't the same as kneecapping the "darken the sky" Reapers into a few hundred, though.  If they wanted the Reapers to be a more manageable foe, then some work needs to be done on ME1. 

 

How are they not the same?

[dreamgazer]

How are they not the same?

 

How are they the same? 

 

Countless, untraceable cycles of existence rounded into "eternal" isn't the same as reducing near-invincible forces with a zero-loss track record into a very manageable couple hundred Reapers. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

How are they the same? 

 

Countless, untraceable cycles of existence rounded into "eternal" isn't the same as reducing near-invincible forces with a zero-loss track record into a very manageable couple hundred Reapers. 

 

Couple hundred Reapers is manageable? ****, I'd wager the Reapers could win with 100 of their number. It'd be slow, and it would hurt, but they'd win eventually. 

[Iakus]

How are they the same? 

 

Countless, untraceable cycles of existence rounded into "eternal" isn't the same as reducing near-invincible forces with a zero-loss track record into a very manageable couple hundred Reapers. 

 

And rounding "we're gonna curb-stomp all your civilizations"  into "we'll darken the sky of every world" sounds pretty reasonable.

 

in addition:

 

Both ME1 and ME2 have shown us that they do not, in fact, have a "zero loss" track record

and

If they're "near-invincible" then a couple hundred Reapers are hardly going to be "manageable" anyway

[Iakus]

Couple hundred Reapers is manageable? ****, I'd wager the Reapers could win with 100 of their number. It'd be slow, and it would hurt, but they'd win eventually. 

 

Especially with control of the relays.  100 Sovereigns could slowly but surely take on the entire galaxy if the worlds couldn't reinforce each other.

 

Priority: Earth could never have happened under those conditions.

[AlanC9]

If they wanted the Reapers to be a more manageable foe, then some work needs to be done on ME1.

Concur, but a couple of hundred Sovereigns, at the strength ME1 shows, is plenty. ME3's introduction of the destroyer type did allow Bio to go for CV, though.... if they had ever even considered doing that.

[dreamgazer]

Couple hundred Reapers is manageable? ****, I'd wager the Reapers could win with 100 of their number. It'd be slow, and it would hurt, but they'd win eventually. 

 

Probably, but the writing staff could bull their way around that many for the sake of power fantasy.

 

And yes, iakus, the Reapers are still around and the cycles continue, therefore they have a zero loss track record. Single battles =/= War. 

[AlanC9]

How'd the thread end up here, anyway?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Concur, but a couple of hundred Sovereigns, at the strength ME1 shows, is plenty. ME3's introduction of the destroyer type did allow Bio to go for CV, though.... if they had ever even considered doing that.

 

I think one rework would to be to have the Destroyers be their primary force, with several larger dreadnoughts making up the brains of their fleets. You'd have the vast majority being something like a destroyer, with a smaller number of cruiser or standard sized ships, and the big-named ones being the city-sized dreadnought brains being with a small number.