167 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Special, or lucky?

 

It was the Protheans that gave them the chance, after all

 

Special, lucky ... pick one. Millions upon millions of years is a long time for these circumstances to have never happened before.

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

Special, lucky ... pick one. Millions upon millions of years is a long time for these circumstances to have never happened before.

 

And two meters across is a small space to place a proton torpedo in. Improbable stuff happens in fiction all the time. And one in a million chances succeed nine times out of ten.

[dreamgazer]

And if they find a "Reaper off" button, how is that better? And more to the point, how is it that this "all previous cycles were inept" assumption no longer applies?

 

One fell swoop = no chance for the Reapers to adapt to new tactics.  Shield stun? They should flee until safe. Thanix cannon? Pinpoint weakness and counter-measure. Millions of years and countless cycles of collective knowledge. 

 

And the Crucible, specifically, developed over the course of many cycles, with gradual technological input from each.

[dreamgazer]

And two meters across is a small space to place a proton torpedo in. Improbable stuff happens in fiction all the time. And one in a million chances succeed nine times out of ten.

 

Again, Reapers =/= Death Star. 

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

One fell swoop = no chance for the Reapers to adapt to new tactics.  Shield stun? They should flee until safe. Thanix cannon? Pinpoint weakness and counter-measure. Millions of years and countless cycles of collective knowledge. 

 

And the Crucible, specifically, developed over the course of many cycles, with gradual technological input from each.

 

Right, because a device that somehow was under construction in every cycle, even though nobody knows what it does, which offers three radically different choices to anyone who happens to collapse in front of a control panel on the Citadel is a viable solution all of a sudden.

 

Besides "we won't find a long lost Reaper off button", anyone? Well why should we. That would be lame... oh wait. We did.

 

I'm sorry, the idea of the Crucible is just so stupid it's beyond belief.

 

Again, Reapers =/= Death Star. 

 

Not what I was talking about.

[dreamgazer]

Right, because a device that somehow was under construction in every cycle, even though nobody knows what it does, which offers three radically different choices to anyone who happens to collapse in front of a control panel on the Citadel is a viable solution all of a sudden.

 

Besides "we won't find a long lost Reaper off button", anyone? Well why should we. That would be lame... oh wait. We did.

 

I'm sorry, the idea of the Crucible is just so stupid it's beyond belief.

 

It is a solution, and that kind of forked decision is a staple in science-fiction.

 

Not as lame as "strap this cannon to every ship and F---- YEAH GALAXY", that's for sure.

 

Needed to be introduced more organically, but the ideas behind the assembly and (established) options of the Crucible are just fine.

 

Not what I was talking about.

 

Okay, but you're not comparing apples and apples. 

[Iakus]

One fell swoop = no chance for the Reapers to adapt to new tactics.  Shield stun? They should flee until safe. Thanix cannon? Pinpoint weakness and counter-measure. Millions of years and countless cycles of collective knowledge. 

 

 

Don't the Reapers spend most of their down-time dormant in dark-space?

 

 

And the Crucible, specifically, developed over the course of many cycles, with gradual technological input from each.

 

I have to wonder how they can develop such a device and add input to it when no one knows what it does.

 

"Keep shoveling, we need more EMS to hit the magic number!"

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

It is a solution, and that kind of forked decision is a staple in science-fiction.

 

Not as lame as "strap this cannon to every ship and F---- YEAH GALAXY", that's for sure.

 

Needed to be introduced more organically, but the ideas behind the assembly and (established) options of the Crucible are just fine.

 

 

No it's not "for sure", and the ideas behind it aren't fine, they're moronic. Also, if you view conventional victory the way you have described it then no wonder you don't like it since it's a coarse oversimplification.

[dreamgazer]

No it's not "for sure", and the ideas behind it aren't fine, they're moronic. Also, if you view conventional victory the way you have described it then no wonder you don't like it since it's a coarse oversimplification.

 

Two of the three are established in the preceding narrative.  Plain and simple.

 

And of course that's an oversimplification, but the Reapers aren't simple minds. Don't think they'll catch on?

[dreamgazer]

Don't the Reapers spend most of their down-time dormant in dark-space?

 

... and?

 

 

 

I have to wonder how they can develop such a device and add input to it when no one knows what it does.

 

"Keep shoveling, we need more EMS to hit the magic number!"

 

Exactly what it does.  Exactly. They knew it was destructive, and that the option to control was within it, too. 

[Iakus]

... and?

 

 

How much can they develop snoozing away in dark space?

 

 

Exactly what it does. Exactly. They knew it was destructive, and that the option to control was within it, too.

 

 

Destructive how?

 

"Let's strap a ginormous grenade to the Citadel and see what it does" doesn't strike me as a winning strategy.

 

And how the frak did they get "option to control" from that? 

[dreamgazer]

How much can they develop snoozing away in dark space?

 

Dunno about you, but I've done some of my most productive thinking and reading while "dormant", laying down or sitting.  Dormant doesn't have to mean shut down completely.

 

 

 

Destructive how?

 

"Let's strap a ginormous grenade to the Citadel and see what it does" doesn't strike me as a winning strategy.

 

And how the frak did they get "option to control" from that?

 

Destructive that's specific enough to target the Reapers' signature, at least. That much was made clear. 

 

As for control, I'm personally not sure.  It should have been more openly addressed, instead of secondhand through TIM's dialogue.

 

Each of those functions resides in the MEU, though, and you'd have to be pretty dense not to expect those things when going into the decision chamber.

[Iakus]

 

Destructive that's specific enough to target the Reapers' signature, at least. That much was made clear. 

 

 

Where?  How does it target them?  How can it reach them when they're in FTL?  Or when they're in a system that doesn't have a relay?

[Oni Changas]

I'm hoping they'll just pretend ME3 ever happened.

Seriously. Give that game the Snake's Revenge treatment. "It was a forced experiment!"

 

Even if they don't, as long as the Catalyst, Leviathans, reaper origins, and galactic stupid bomb get handwaved, I'd be fine.

[dreamgazer]

Where?  How does it target them?  How can it reach them when they're in FTL?  Or when they're in a system that doesn't have a relay?

 

Liara informs you of its destructive capabilities.  Targeting systems are pretty specific even in the modern era, so I'm sure it could be done with the research poured into the Citadel (past and present) in the future, along with fragments and code targeting (but perhaps not enough to distinguish Reapers from upgraded AIs). FTL and the relay systems shouldn't matter, given the blast's sprawl.

 

I'd be far more concerned about being "thorough" with destroying the Reapers if they were chalking them off one by one. 

[Eryri]

Liara informs you of its destructive capabilities. Targeting systems are pretty specific even in the modern era, so I'm sure it could be done with the research poured into the Citadel (past and present) in the future, along with fragments and code targeting (but perhaps not enough to distinguish Reapers from upgraded AIs). FTL and the relay systems shouldn't matter, given the blast's sprawl.

I'd be far more concerned about being "thorough" with destroying the Reapers if they were chalking them off one by one.

I'm afraid that I really can't believe that a blast of energy, broadcast in all directions, can target anything. Reapers and AIs aren't made of some exotic form of matter. Any EMP-like blast powerful to overload their circuits should overload any and all electronics everywhere. Every ship should be dead in space, every planet should have its power grids shot to pieces. The Quarian's suits should be damaged, particularly if they can house sentient Geth programs. By rights, everybody should be blasted back to the Stone Age.
It's actually even more muddled if we consider that Reapers, unlike the Geth and EDI, aren't even pure synthetics. They are organic/synthetic hybrids. Destroy isn't even consistent in what it targets. The Red wave is almost as magical as the Green one.

[dreamgazer]

Why? We're talking about Overload blast-wave targeting systems 150+ years in the future.

 

And if the Crucible knows to look for specific codes and material signatures, which is entirely possible in its development cycle, then there'd be no ... well, little problem.

[Iakus]

Besides that little deal where the Crucible is "little more than a power source" of course

[dreamgazer]

So, Saren's body can be magically resurrected and Shepard's brain can be scrambled and rescrambled to support the content of the Prothean cipher, but a selective energy targeting system that uses the relays is somehow off the table? Uh-huh. 

 

As I've said, you lose me at Synthesis. 

 

Besides that little deal where the Crucible is "little more than a power source" of course

 

Pretty obvious by its development that there's more to it than a simple "power source".

[Eryri]

Why? We're talking about Overload blast-wave targeting systems 150+ years in the future.
 
And if the Crucible knows to look for specific codes and material signatures, which is entirely possible in its development cycle, then there'd be no ... well, little problem.

The wave can't really look for features specific to synthetic life once it has been released. Particularly after the crucible itself gets blown up and the wave propagates through the galaxy. The only thing that comes close to this sort of effect in real life is the neutron bomb, which is designed to preferentially damage organic tissue at the expense of explosive yield. But it's just a mindless pulse of neutrons. It doesn't selectively target people and leave plants alone, in the way that destroy apparently kills every piece of machinery with a soul but leaves ship's computers etc intact. It just destroys organic material because it's complexity makes it vulnerable to this kind of damage. If the writers had introduced some sort of technobabble to cover this, like "the energy pulse will resonate with the quantum signature of Reaper neural pathways"' then that might have made it palatable enough to overlook it, but for some reason they did not.

I also find the Crucible's development cycle hard to accept. While you can improve some systems by a Darwinian process of making a series of small random changes, testing their effects and retaining the beneficial "mutations" while discarding the deleterious ones, this process is dependent on being able to test your design. So far as we know the Crucible has never been test fired, so it's successive generations of designers could never know what improved it and what didn't. The codex is almost comical in this regard. The crucible builders are apparently randomly bolting on any old junk, like Reaper hearts and other assorted technological brick-a-brac, in the hope that it will somehow improve its ability to do... whatever it's going to do.

[dreamgazer]

It needed more exposition, I definitely agree there. But most of what's there beats the alternative.

Better exposition around the Crucible >>> Picking off all Reapers one-by-one.

[Eryri]

So, Saren's body can be magically resurrected and Shepard's brain can be scrambled and rescrambled to support the content of the Prothean cipher, but a selective energy targeting system that uses the relays is somehow off the table? Uh-huh. 
 
As I've said, you lose me at Synthesis. 
 

 
Pretty obvious by its development that there's more to it than a simple "power source".

At the risk of going a little off topic, Saren's reanimation doesn't strike me as particularly magical. Sovereign was just operating his robotic components by remote control after Saren blew his brains out.

If we're talking about the (many) other times that the series strained credibility (cough Lazarus Project cough), then I didn't necessarily like them. I just put up with them because it would have been a short game if I hadn't, and because my nostalgia for 90 s space opera and affection for the characters drew me back in. The ending makes the mistake of sidelining those characters in favour of cod philosophy, so now there is nothing left to mask the flaws.

[dreamgazer]

Sounds pretty magical to me. Let's not forget the telepathic, mind-controlling plant---the source of the cipher.

The red wave, by comparison, really isn't that bad.

[Eryri]

It needed more exposition, I definitely agree there. But most of what's there beats the alternative.
Better exposition around the Crucible >>> Picking off all Reapers one-by-one.

Yes, I've often though that a lot of ME3's problems stemmed from that cutscene in ME2 of a vast Reaper armada on the galaxy's doorstep. Making the invasion so enormously OP was bound to lead to stuff like the Crucible. If the invasion was just say, 10 capital Reapers who had got here by cannibalising fuel from their subordinates in order to cross the vast expanse of Darkspace then that might have given us a believable scenario for "conventional victory". Alas I think we may have "rule of cool" to blame here.

[dreamgazer]

Rule of Cool is responsible for a lot of missteps across the entire trilogy.