228 réponses à ce sujet

[ladyofpayne]

Still waiting for a valid reason for "murdering is good".

They are warriors. What else they have to do? Not good or bad but they are prepeared for a war.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They are warriors. What else they have to do? Not good or bad but they are prepeared for a war.

Defend their nation's citizens instead of killing some of them would be a good start. 

[ladyofpayne]

Defend their nation's citizens instead of killing some of them would be a good start. 

To make sure that they won't be terrified to kill people in battlefield there must be some kind of preparations.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

To make sure that they won't be terrified to kill people in battlefield there must be some kind of preparations.

That's what war games are for. Take today's military. Nations today don't have their soldiers kill people as part of their training. 

 

Believing that in order for your soldiers to be a soldier, they need to practice their killing by actually killing is psychopathic and sociopathic. 

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

Take today's military. 

Today wasn't like 15 old. Chevaliers are medieval warriors.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Today wasn't like 15 old. Chevaliers are medieval warriors.

They are fictional warriors, not medieval. Medieval times were also extremely homophobic and sexist, yet in Dragon Age people don't really care about someone's sexual orientation or gender. 

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

They are fictional warriors, not medieval.

Realistic ones. You should read the book By Sword and Fire: Cruelty and Atrocity in Medieval Warfare.

 

"For all the talk of chivalry, medieval warfare routinely involved acts that we would consider war crimes. "

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Realistic ones. You should read the book By Sword and Fire: Cruelty and Atrocity in Medieval Warfare.

 

For all the talk of chivalry, medieval warfare routinely involved acts that we would consider war crimes. 

I know all about it. You're the one arguing what they are doing is right and fine.

[Ryzaki]

 

I'm going to have my Dalish be rebellious against the Dalish ways. She's based on Toph so she's the Tophquisitor.

 

I know but reading that just made it so much more upsetting.

 

I love how true underdog CE is. being able to rub it in those Orlesian snob faces would've been glorious.

 

I'll see how relevant Dalish is via youtube. Quizzy and Human playthroughs are first though.

[calvinien]

And it always have been because of social layers. This is Medieval. Celene isn't better than him you know- burn alianage and ordered to kill Bri's parents. At least he wants to stop the Game but she supports it.

 

She dind't burn the alienage. She put down an uprising. An uprising which was killing innocent humans. Remember that poor merchant who is worried about his horses? And she also sent briala to kill the man responsible for the elves anger in the first place. And had gaspard not tried to paint her as beholden to elves (which he admits he didn't even think was true.) the uprising would probably have ended with the assassination.

 

I can't recall Gaspard saying he disliked the game but even so, he still uses it. You try to excuse his actions by saying everyone does it, but that is clearly not true. Celene doesn't support rape and indiscriminate murder of civilians. And every time she's done something morally quiestionable it has been because she was pusehd to it. Including ordering an attack on herself, which if you recall was her only option after Gaspard and his wife killed her parents.

 

It's still a dick move, and I think perople dreaming of getting Briala and Celene back together are deluding themselves. Bri may not hate Celene, but there is no wya she can frget that. But again, Celene doesn't pull morally ambiguous stuff unless she is forced to. And there are people in thedas who don't buy into racism. Alistair and duncan...who managed to become great warriors (Alistair can beat the frigging arishok in single combat, and duncan solo'ed an ogre) without attacking innocent civilians. Anora doens't display racism at all. Hell, we've even met some fairly powerful tevinters of elven origin.

 

Excusing Gaspard's actions with "he knows what he';s doing is wrong and everyone does it anyways" either doens't excuse him, or can also excuse anyone else. And again, the whole "chevaliers are allowed to rape people" thing is kindof the trump card. Noone in DAO that you talk to about Bann Vaughn doesn't act apalled, but to gaspard that's just what peopel with power get to do.

 

Take away Gaspard's manners and you have a guy who is willing to attack defenseless targets, lie about his enemies, use tactics he publically abhors and benefit from other cheating on his behalf as long as he can say he didn't know about it beforehand. Oh yeah, he's also a classist, a racist and while we don't have evidence of him murdering civilians or raping people, we have no reason to believe he wouldn't do either of those things based on what we know about Chevaliers.

 

Celene's sins amount to being willing to do unscrupulous or incredibly harsh things when backed against a wall and all her other plans have failed. And every time she has done one of these things it has been because Gascard put her in a position where she thought that was her only option. One of these things is not like the other. You may be able to argue she is as power hungry as he is, but after that the moral equivalencies end rather abruptly.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I know but reading that just made it so much more upsetting.

 

I love how true underdog CE is. being able to rub it in those Orlesian snob faces would've been glorious.

 

I'll see how relevant Dalish is via youtube. Quizzy and Human playthroughs are first though.

Hopefully Sera will pick up the slack in that department.

[Queen of Evil]

*grumble, grumble *    dalish pixies    *grumble, grumble, grumpy face*

[ladyofpayne]

I know all about it. You're the one arguing what they are doing is right and fine.

Every warrior act at war the same. This is the point. They aren't worse that the others.

 

 

She put down an uprising. A

If she killed Gaspard when they contradicted that will be the end. She thought he stepped back, fool woman.

 

 

about Bann Vaughn doesn't act apalled, but to gaspard that's just what peopel with power get to do.

Really? When Gaspard act like Vaughan? And his soldiers are disciplined.

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

. Anora doens't display racism at all.

She burned alienage  in the end.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Every warrior act at war the same. This is the point. They aren't worse that the others.

First off, no every warrior does not act the same at war. In World War 2, the Western Allies soldiers did not act like the Soviet soldiers. 

 

Second, you said 'at war'. The Chevaliers are not at war when they are killing innocent civilians as part of their initiation.

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

Take away Gaspard's manners and you have a guy who is willing to attack defenseless targets, lie about his enemies, use tactics he publically abhors and benefit from other cheating on his behalf as long as he can say he didn't know about it beforehand. 

This how real wars win. Remeber "Art of War"?

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

The Chevaliers are not at war when they are killing innocent civilians as part of their initiation.

Not humans. They slay thugs in alienages.

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

we have no reason to believe he wouldn't do either of those things based on what we know about Chevaliers.

All nobles just like him then. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not humans. They slay thugs in alienages.

O_O

[ladyofpayne]

 

 

it has been because Gascard put her in a position

She should killed him when she had the option.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hey ladyofpayne. Since you are quoting the same post but in snippets, just keep them in a single post. You can quote more than once in a post.

 

 

O_O

 

O_O

 

See.

[Queen of Evil]

Death to shems! All this chevalier talk has made me angry, killing my city elves, *evil glare*.  Lets just stick Briala on the throne.

[Maraas]

Today wasn't like 15 old. Chevaliers are medieval warriors.

I don't believe I've ever heard or read about medieval knights who received their knighthood for murdering some peasants. I'm pretty sure they weren't trained that way either.

 

If part of a chevalier's initiation is murdering City Elves, as Hinata Hyuuga said, then, well. I think even hardcore Nazis would be appaled by that. They didn't have their soldiers kill Jews simply to test their stomach. 

 

It's not even about racism, it's just that murdering civilians is a war crime and atrocity that doesn't even help to win a real fight in any way whatsoever. For that you train in fencing, not butchering.

[MisterJB]

Kicking Gaspard's ass as a female Elf would be hilarity.

 

If only it could be a female CE ;_;

 

Beating a crippled man,

(claps)

Never have I seen more valor.
 

[MisterJB]

Take a look at the parts of orlesian society Gaspard holds sacred and it is pretty impossible to think of him as anything other than a villain. Maybe a tragic one who is too stupid to know why he's a villain. Maybe not a mustache twirling villain like Vaughn or Howe, but still the things he stands for are monstrous.

The definition of what constitutes a villain varies from person to person. Gaspard has not been seen defending any of the actions you hold monstruous therefore, is he guilty simply because he accepts them as natural parts of life?

Let's say that Amaranthine declared itself independent from Ferelden which would lead to the nation losing the ports closest to the Free Marchs thereby criplling the economy. Will Alistair be a monster if he orders Amaranthine taken back, knowing full well that this will result in bloodshed, rape?

 

Plus, that initiation has been going on for hundred of years before Gaspard was even born. Is every Chevalier guilty too?