Of course you can spin anything. You can turn any piece of fiction into garbage if you dissect it, too. Citizen Kane and Casablanca, considered to be two of the greatest movies ever made, have significant plot holes, as does Star Wars.
You did have agency. It was limited by BioWare's storytelling though, which can be said for the entire trilogy, from the second Shepard becomes a Spectre.
Shepard becoming a SPectre didn't produce unprecedented backlash. Just saying.
Shepard becoming a SPectre didn't produce unprecedented backlash. Just saying.
I wouldn't quite call it unprecedented. Science-fiction "fans" have been overreacting to and exacerbating elements in their franchises for decades.
I can say if there's one thing I minded about 2 and 3, it's not getting to be as much of a Spectre (Cerebrus and Alliance). I loved being the Council's attack dog.
I wouldn't quite call it unprecedented. Science-fiction "fans" have been overreacting to and exacerbating elements in their franchises for decades.
You might not, but that's the adjective used to describe the reaction pretty much since the start.
In any case. comparing the ending to Shepard becoming a Spectre as equivalent is pretty hilarious
Man, dreamgazer's loving the sarcasm quotes. MAD WITH POWER.
You might not, but that's the adjective used to describe the reaction pretty much since the start.
In any case. comparing the ending to Shepard becoming a Spectre as equivalent is pretty hilarious
You're right. The scale isn't the same, as it shouldn't be. It wasn't a direct comparison.
Mass Effect has been on the rails and succumbed to BioWare's demands since the beginning, though, restricting every single decision.
That's the point.
You're right. Not sure why you're doing it exactly.
Mass Effect has been on the rails and succumbed to BioWare's demands since the beginning, though, restricting every single decision. That's the point.
The point is, what? Mass Effect is just another shooter?
Heck ME3 pretty much proved that two years ago
The point is, what? Mass Effect is just another shooter?
Heck ME3 pretty much proved that two years ago
No, Mass Effect is a third-person shooter-RPG with marginal input from the players. Mass Effect proved that in 2007.
No, Mass Effect is a third-person shooter-RPG with marginal input from the players. Mass Effect proved that in 2007.
With that margin become distinctly less in ME3
With that margin become distinctly less in ME3
The margin wasn't noteworthy in ME1, though. It's always been heavily restricted.
And I think this is a result of making them what they are. Because dear god how are you supposed to fight a dreadnought with an assault rifle? This ends up making the conflict feel incredibly impersonal and boring. You only ever directly fight 2 Reapers and those are probably the 2 worst boss fights in the series.
Aw the Rannoch reaper fight wasn't so bad. Thinking back, the one on Rannoch was a lot better than the proto-reaper to me.
Aw the Rannoch reaper fight wasn't so bad. Thinking back, the one on Rannoch was a lot better than the proto-reaper to me.
Definitely agree with the bolded, even though I have issues with the Rannoch battle.
Aw the Rannoch reaper fight wasn't so bad. Thinking back, the one on Rannoch was a lot better than the proto-reaper to me.
Well, except Shepard and the ground team should have died with the first fleet salvo.
And Rannoch wouldn't be a garden world anymore after that fight 
Well, except Shepard and teh ground team should have died with the first fleet salvo
And if the game allowed for friendly fire, we'd constantly kill our own companions if we fired a biotic flare to clear a room they were in. What's the difference, really?
Not really. It's still a bunch of schlock, contrivance, and space magic that fudges its way across the narrative's finish line.
And yes, plenty needs to be "fixed" about "ME2" (I could get used to that!) and some of ME1, especially to make ME3 that uber power-fantasy some wanted to play.
Maybe to you, but most people don't seem to have a problem with it. So if people didn't think twice about the "schlock, contrivance, and space magic", but got immediately pissed off about them in Mass Effect 3, then that's a clear cut sign that the execution of it in Mass Effect 3 was pisspoor. Bottom line, there's a reason why most fans consider ME1 to have the best written story, and no it's not nostalgia.
Btw I don't know when people started to turn on Mass Effect 2, but I think it's absolutely crazy. If people are gonna start crapping on Mass Effect 2, then let's just denounce the entire trilogy and call it a day. Mass Effect 2 didn't "reboot" the universe, it expanded on it. They took what they established ME1, and fleshed it out even further. As much as I love ME1, the world felt kinda empty. It had this lonely atmosphere to it. But then ME2 came along and made these worlds actually feel rich and alive. ME2 is guilty of deviating too far from the Reaper storyline, and dumbing down the RPG elements. That's pretty much it. Other than that it's a fantastic entry in the series and a great game.
Btw I don't know when people started to turn on Mass Effect 2, but I think it's absolutely crazy. If people are gonna start crapping on Mass Effect 2, then let's just denounce the entire trilogy and call it a day.
I don't see what's so crazy about it. I love Mass Effect 2, but despite my affection for the game, its internal logic is far more warped than people give it credit for. It makes some serious mistakes in the overarching narrative of the trilogy. The likeliest reason that most of these things are often glossed over by fans is because the ending was actually really satisfying to play for the first time, and BioWare plays to its strengths in its cast of companions. I have no doubt that if ME3 had a similarly satisfying and bigger ending than ME2's, it would be the same story. I guess I'm very critical of the things I love, but so far, Dragon Age has been easier to love than this.
This kind of reminds me of the whole issue I have with the Abrams reboot of Star Trek. Its plot is a total ******, and its antagonist actually makes no sense, but everyone seems to love them, because a lot of the things that go on around the horribly problematic core of the two films still satisfy enough people.
I don't see what's so crazy about it. I love Mass Effect 2, but despite my affection for the game, its internal logic is far more warped than people give it credit for. It makes some serious mistakes in the overarching narrative of the trilogy. The likeliest reason that most of these things are often glossed over by fans is because the ending was actually really satisfying to play for the first time, and BioWare plays to its strengths in its cast of companions. I have no doubt that if ME3 had a similarly satisfying and bigger ending than ME2's, it would be the same story. I guess I'm very critical of the things I love, but so far, Dragon Age has been easier to love than this.
This kind of reminds me of the whole issue I have with the Abrams reboot of Star Trek. Its plot is a total ******, and its antagonist actually makes no sense, but everyone seems to love them, because a lot of the things that go on around the horribly problematic core of the two films still satisfy enough people.
I admit it made the big mistake of doing it's own thing with the narrative, but the game on it's own is still fantastic. Rewind back to 2010, there was no way to know just how much Bioware wrote themselves into a corner when they wrote that game. It was still safe to assume that they had their plan with ME3 and that it would all come around full circle. I mean ME2 ends with us acquiring an incredibly powerful base (or destroying it), and there was the whole foreshadowing with the Dark Energy plot. It still all felt part of the plan.
But then ME3 came out and you realize they had no plan and were (as they admitted) making it up as they went along. Ok so NOW it's easy to look back on ME2 and ask wtf they were thinking with that plot. But I try to ignore that, because what's done is done, and I can still enjoy ME2 for what it is.
And if the game allowed for friendly fire, we'd constantly kill our own companions if we fired a biotic flare to clear a room they were in. What's the difference, really?
Hey, I'd love for there to be friendly fire.
But all the same, there's a world of difference between a biotic attack and a planet-killing WMD.
Literally
Btw I don't know when people started to turn on Mass Effect 2, but I think it's absolutely crazy. If people are gonna start crapping on Mass Effect 2, then let's just denounce the entire trilogy and call it a day. Mass Effect 2 didn't "reboot" the universe, it expanded on it. They took what they established ME1, and fleshed it out even further. As much as I love ME1, the world felt kinda empty. It had this lonely atmosphere to it. But then ME2 came along and made these worlds actually feel rich and alive. ME2 is guilty of deviating too far from the Reaper storyline, and dumbing down the RPG elements. That's pretty much it. Other than that it's a fantastic entry in the series and a great game.
ME2 spent its whole time spinning wheels as Shepard fought random mercs when the galaxy should have been prepraing for the Reapers. But from the moment I heard "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'" my heart began to sink (actually it started to shrink when Shepard practically leapt at the idea of working alongside Cerberus regardless of Shepard's prior knowledge of them)
Then there was Horizon... 
Then roughly around the time Shepard was recruiting Tali, it sank in that this is all ME2 was going to be: Recruit. Loyalty Mission. Repeat. The overarching plot of the missing colonies and Reaper involvement, which was the entire reason Shepard was railroaded into helping Cerberus, was just an excuse to hang out with interstellar bad@$$es who weren't even aware they were part of a team.
And that's not even touching the silliness of the Lazarus Project.
Maybe to you, but most people don't seem to have a problem with it. So if people didn't think twice about the "schlock, contrivance, and space magic", but got immediately pissed off about them in Mass Effect 3, then that's a clear cut sign that the execution of it in Mass Effect 3 was pisspoor. Bottom line, there's a reason why most fans consider ME1 to have the best written story, and no it's not nostalgia.
Btw I don't know when people started to turn on Mass Effect 2, but I think it's absolutely crazy. If people are gonna start crapping on Mass Effect 2, then let's just denounce the entire trilogy and call it a day. Mass Effect 2 didn't "reboot" the universe, it expanded on it. They took what they established ME1, and fleshed it out even further. As much as I love ME1, the world felt kinda empty. It had this lonely atmosphere to it. But then ME2 came along and made these worlds actually feel rich and alive. ME2 is guilty of deviating too far from the Reaper storyline, and dumbing down the RPG elements. That's pretty much it. Other than that it's a fantastic entry in the series and a great game.
This kind of thing happens with many third installments in a trilogy, and it's not simply because one is better written than the other. ME2 has a wealth of the same issues as ME3, on top of a plot that goes absolutely nowhere and almost entirely avoids the Reapers. It's a shoddy sequel, despite being an exciting story on its own.
And again, yes, ME2 rearranged just about everything in the universe into something it wasn't at the end of ME1, from Cerberus and the geth to the Council, the primary characters, and Shepard him/herself. That's not expansion or development. It's outright restarting, two years later.
Let me amend my opinion a bit. As a video game boss fight the Rannoch destroyer is fine. As a part of an actual story it's ridiculous. Meanwhile the Human Reaper was just ridiculous.
ME2 spent its whole time spinning wheels as Shepard fought random mercs when the galaxy should have been prepraing for the Reapers. But from the moment I heard "Ah, yes, 'Reapers'" my heart began to sink (actually it started to shrink when Shepard practically leapt at the idea of working alongside Cerberus regardless of Shepard's prior knowledge of them)
Then there was Horizon...
Then roughly around the time Shepard was recruiting Tali, it sank in that this is all ME2 was going to be: Recruit. Loyalty Mission. Repeat. The overarching plot of the missing colonies and Reaper involvement, which was the entire reason Shepard was railroaded into helping Cerberus, was just an excuse to hang out with interstellar bad@$$es who weren't even aware they were part of a team.
And that's not even touching the silliness of the Lazarus Project.
People probably should have seen the silliness of stuff like the Lazarus Project coming after the silliness of the Prothean cipher and the Thorian.
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