702 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

There is a comic that exists that portrays what each squad member needs to do: Jacob, Miranda, Tali, Thane, Samara, Legion, and Mordin all have to deal with a loved one or familial member of some sort (in Legions case, it involves its people as a whole). 

 

Jack Zaeed, Kasumi (to an extent, and she also fits in the other category to an extent as well), and Garrus all want revenge.

 

Grunt is technically the only one to no fall under either trend, his just wanting to kill stuff as a coming of age ritual.

 

Of course, this is the second 'loyalty mission' you have to do for Garrus and Tali; ME1 had those missions as well for the Garrus, Tali, and Wrex, with Garrus' being to track down and eliminate an old mark that slipped through the cracks, Tali's to find a suitable resource for the Migrant Fleet, and Wrex concerning his family's ancestral armor. You could also make a case that Liara has one by virtue of her mother, and taking Liara with you to confront her.

You'd think it'd be easy to think of back stories that don't involve familiar problems. They were able to do it in ME1, but then forgot how to in a game focused on the characters. I can't help but feel that helping Thane assassinate his last target would've been better than just another family problem. 

Also, what does Mordin's mission have to do with family?

[KaiserShep]

It would've been interesting to help Thane take revenge for the murder of his wife, and maybe Nassana Dantius was the first step to finding them for whatever reason, but I imagine there would have to be more to it than simply killing a final target, to provide some sort of moral dilemma I suppose.

[AlanC9]

I think if there is to be a "final choice" in RPGs, then perhaps it should take place much earlier in the game. Well before the climax, and possibly so early that you don't even realise at the time you make it that the consequences will be so dramatic. That might provide more of an incentive to replay the entire game to see the different endings, rather than just reloading the last save.

 

Like in KotOR, right? After the Temple mount you're locked into one of the two paths

 

I don't have a problem with doing the final choice earlier in the game, but I don't buy doing it as a way to encourage replaying. Either the game is worth replaying on the merits or it isn't. If I didn't want to replay anyway I'd just look the alternate path up on YouTube.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You'd think it'd be easy to think of back stories that don't involve familiar problems. They were able to do it in ME1, but then forgot how to in a game focused on the characters. I can't help but feel that helping Thane assassinate his last target would've been better than just another family problem. 

Also, what does Mordin's mission have to do with family?

 

His mission regards a person who is important to him. That was what I was saying.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

His mission regards a person who is important to him. That was what I was saying.

Oh yeah. Maelon was his protege and what not. It's been a while. 

[KaiserShep]

Mordin's was definitely the most interesting, also in that he was ready to kill that person who was important to him as well.

[dreamgazer]

Mordin's was also a good example of actual science-fiction.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It was a bit too heavy-handed for my tastes in the anti-genophage department, though I think the implicit subtext of the mission had a slightly pro-genophage ideal behind it. It was a good LM, but just not memorable for me. Too much sci-fi in my space opera.

[dreamgazer]

Guess that's why I liked it, because it's one of a handful of parts I really look forward to playing in ME2.

[KaiserShep]

Mordin's loyalty mission was the highlight of the game for me. Well, that and LotSB. Putting aside that cockamamie genetic diversity bit, the moral quandary surrounding the genophage was especially satisfying to explore, regardless of whether or not one agrees with its use. I was glad that you could stay largely neutral on the issue, because it wouldn't seem right to nag him about it when Mordin may not have had any viable alternatives to consider. It was at that point that Mordin became my favorite character in the game.

[Hadeedak]

My favorite mission in ME2 is probably Garrus's recruitment, because it never fails to kill me at least once when I round a corner into a vorcha with a flamethrower.

 

While I'm not a giant fan of Miranda (I loves her, but she's not favorite-tier on most playthroughs), I do enjoy her loyalty mission a lot. I think I'd go with Legion's loyalty mission as my absolute favorite loyalty mission, but Miranda and Mordin's are up there.

[KaiserShep]

As a vanguard, I always stun that lousy vorcha pyro with a shockwave before breaking cover.

[Hadeedak]

I'm not always a vanguard.

 

....And when I am, he still manages to kill me. Or one of his little buddies. THAT VORCHA. Him and Avina are my ultimate nemeses. Of Mass Effect.

[von uber]

I think I flamethrowered him this time in a deliberate act of pettiness.

Here's his buddy at least:

[CptFalconPunch]

Guess that's why I liked it, because it's one of a handful of parts I really look forward to playing in ME2.

I liked everything Bioware did for him in ME2. The song in the backround, the vivid camera positioning to match his fast speech.

And he is so different than the rest of the characters, he simply has a lot of depth. The other characters care about their dads,
mordin cares about himself and the fate of an entire species. Same with legion. Compare those 2 to the other characters.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I liked everything Bioware did for him in ME2. The song in the backround, the vivid camera positioning to match his fast speech.

And he is so different than the rest of the characters, he simply has a lot of depth. The other characters care about their dads,
mordin cares about himself and the fate of an entire species. Same with legion. Compare those 2 to the other characters.

 

All the characters have depth if you know where to find it. You can look at a different perspective of each character and find a lot of personal elements that are rather deep. I think you're unfairly dismissing other characters by judging them from one perspective on Mordin. 

[Mathias]

Man, you guys give ME2 waaaaaay too much slack.

 

In essence, it's alright if that thing avoids the main plot, changes the world-building all around, and reveals next-to-no evidence of prior choices, but ME3 damn sure better do the work for both games.

 

I don't think I am giving it too much slack. Believe me I didn't think ME2 was perfect either. I hated how they dumbed down the skill tree, and I didn't like the very limited amount of weapons that were in the game. But the insane amount of coding the developers would have to undertake if they really fleshed out and started branching different paths in ME2, would've been a nightmare once they went into ME3. So to me it was easy to let it slide.

 

EDIT: Actually while I'm at it, I hate how in ME2 you spend pretty much the entire game getting to know your squadmates, only for them to get sidelined on ME3. I'd say that's more the fault on ME3, but still wtf.

[Deathsaurer]

The problem with the ME2 squad is any of them could die meaning they destroyed an potential plot relevance they could have had. You could either keep or destroy the Collector base meaning no plot relevance there etc. The best you could hope for is stuff like Mordin Tali and Legion providing better outcomes to certain situations.

[dreamgazer]

EDIT: Actually while I'm at it, I hate how in ME2 you spend pretty much the entire game getting to know your squadmates, only for them to get sidelined on ME3. I'd say that's more the fault on ME3, but still wtf.

Suicide mission, man. A really bad idea for the second installment in a trilogy, and a further symptom of the new characters' redundancy and volume. At least they did appear, with mixed to positive results.

[wolfhowwl]

I don't think I am giving it too much slack. Believe me I didn't think ME2 was perfect either. I hated how they dumbed down the skill tree, and I didn't like the very limited amount of weapons that were in the game. But the insane amount of coding the developers would have to undertake if they really fleshed out and started branching different paths in ME2, would've been a nightmare once they went into ME3. So to me it was easy to let it slide.
 
EDIT: Actually while I'm at it, I hate how in ME2 you spend pretty much the entire game getting to know your squadmates, only for them to get sidelined on ME3. I'd say that's more the fault on ME3, but still wtf.

You could still maintain an almost completely linear narrative while doing something like having a mutually exclusive mission based on the Council choice. The VS could have also been a full-fledged squadmate in the game leading to a different experience based on your Virmire choice. There would be little effect on the overall story for BioWare to deal with but it would still be more content dedicated to consequences than pretty much anywhere else in the trilogy.

 

As far as the ME2 squad goes, BioWare should have considered if they would actually have the time and money to deal with the consequences of the suicide mission in the third game when making Mass Effect 2. Also the "branching different paths" started in ME2 with making everyone killable and yes it was a "nightmare once they went into ME3."

[Mathias]

You could still maintain an almost completely linear narrative while doing something like having a mutually exclusive mission based on the Council choice. The VS could have also been a full-fledged squadmate in the game leading to a different experience based on your Virmire choice. There would be little effect on the overall story for BioWare to deal with but it would still be more content dedicated to consequences than pretty much anywhere else in the trilogy.

 

I'd say they handled the choices pretty well all things considered. The only choices I was expecting something huge from was the Council, Human Councilor, the VS, and the Rachni Queen. The VS was handled terribly, especially for Ashley who I romanced. However the other three I thought were handled just fine because since the story took a bit of a break from the Reaper plot, I didn't expect those three things to have an impact until the third game.

As for the Suicide Mission, it was awesome but in the wrong game. I've heard this before that they should've saved it for the third game, and I agree. I think even Bioware admitted it was a mistake to have in ME2. The "final push" was amazing in ME1 and ME2, but terrible in ME3. I still can't get over that the final mission in this trilogy was firefighting on the streets of London

[dreamgazer]

Why would the Council decision not impact ME2 more significantly?

In a version of ME2 that didn't reboot the lore and force Cerberus co-op, of course.

[Jorji Costava]

You could still maintain an almost completely linear narrative while doing something like having a mutually exclusive mission based on the Council choice. The VS could have also been a full-fledged squadmate in the game leading to a different experience based on your Virmire choice. There would be little effect on the overall story for BioWare to deal with but it would still be more content dedicated to consequences than pretty much anywhere else in the trilogy.

 

Honestly, I think that the Council decision was a major misstep in ME1. Not only did it create headaches for later installments (hence the human council retcon of ME3), but it makes little sense on its own terms. If the UN Security Council representatives of every participant nation but the US were suddenly killed, what are the chances that we would then have an all-US security council? Pretty low, I'd imagine. It's just hard to believe that the other races would just sit back and let humanity install its own council to run everything.

[wolfhowwl]

Honestly, I think that the Council decision was a major misstep in ME1. Not only did it create headaches for later installments (hence the human council retcon of ME3), but it makes little sense on its own terms. If the UN Security Council representatives of every participant nation but the US were suddenly killed, what are the chances that we would then have an all-US security council? Pretty low, I'd imagine. It's just hard to believe that the other races would just sit back and let humanity install its own council to run everything.

 

It is also odd that they would let a glorified gestapo agent choose who would represent humanity.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Honestly, I think that the Council decision was a major misstep in ME1. Not only did it create headaches for later installments (hence the human council retcon of ME3), but it makes little sense on its own terms. If the UN Security Council representatives of every participant nation but the US were suddenly killed, what are the chances that we would then have an all-US security council? Pretty low, I'd imagine. It's just hard to believe that the other races would just sit back and let humanity install its own council to run everything.

It just seems like Udina had his head up his ass and forgot that the Alliance just happened to be outnumbered 15-1 in dreadnought count alone.