702 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

Honestly, I think that the Council decision was a major misstep in ME1. Not only did it create headaches for later installments (hence the human council retcon of ME3), but it makes little sense on its own terms. If the UN Security Council representatives of every participant nation but the US were suddenly killed, what are the chances that we would then have an all-US security council? Pretty low, I'd imagine. It's just hard to believe that the other races would just sit back and let humanity install its own council to run everything.

I tend to agree it would be a bit unbelievable to have just humans in the council when other races are involved in the political bull **** day today. They should have never promised that as a plot point to began with in the first place. These races already saw humanity as beneath them, so I was aspected to believe they would allow such a thing. To me, that would be a stupid thing to do political wise for the other races to just let the humans run things alone.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Honestly, I think that the Council decision was a major misstep in ME1. Not only did it create headaches for later installments (hence the human council retcon of ME3), but it makes little sense on its own terms. If the UN Security Council representatives of every participant nation but the US were suddenly killed, what are the chances that we would then have an all-US security council? Pretty low, I'd imagine. It's just hard to believe that the other races would just sit back and let humanity install its own council to run everything.

 

I'd wager we (the Americans) would actually be able to do it. Seriously. By the way, you are comparing the United States (in the Security Council) to humanity and the alliance in the Galactic community. I wouldn't say that's a very good comparison. In the Galactic community, we are a strong up and coming race, but hardly on par with anyone else.

 

Whereas the modern U.S. (despite the so-called decline of influence, which is debatable) is the Turian Hierarchy, Salarian Union, and Asari Republics all rolled into one. We are the dominant and most powerful military, economic, and political culture on the planet at this time. Damn straight if the U.S. wanted, we very much could make the UNSC kowtow to us. And we do have the ability to take on the rest of the world. And we would win (though it'd be a very high priced Pyrrhic victory). If it was a straight fight without nuclear weapons, we would win. Especially if it was a defensive war, we would win. If we put the pressure on Putin to get out of Ukraine, he would back down. Whereas the entire E.U. is trying to do it, and Putin is cooing about how cute they look when they're angry.

 

In fact, it's probably more accurate to put us on a level not nearly the same as the Reapers, but if it did happen, we could likely face the rest of the world militarily and put them down (though as I said, we would likely be in a very compromised position ourselves and would have very little time to overcome any issues before we too died out.)

[von uber]

'murica stuff

 

Very debatable, but this isn't the place for it.

 

Anyway, the problem with the Council decision is that you just killed 3 council representatives (oh and 10,000 Asari crew women). Whoop-de-woo. Just promote the assistants.

[KaiserShep]

"I didn't do it; the reapers did, nyuk, nyuk!"

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Very debatable, but this isn't the place for it.

 

Anyway, the problem with the Council decision is that you just killed 3 council representatives (oh and 10,000 Asari crew women). Whoop-de-woo. Just promote the assistants.

 

It makes you wonder how the Council system even works; How long are terms in office? Is it relative for each species lifespan? Is there some kind of other system? 

 

Granted, they are a very autocratic unitary system; They are the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government all at once. One wonders how they handle everything else.

[themikefest]

My problem is the new council(I always let the first council die in ME1) in ME3, particularly the Asari councillor who mentions that Shepard let the first council die. I don't agree with that statement. I would blame Hackett. He's the one who was able to see the battle whereas Shepard couldn't  and then decide if it was worth saving the council or not. All he had to do was override Shepard. He knew the size of the fleet he had with him.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

The system of having three councilors doesn't make any sense. 

Maybe if we saw them contacting their governments to say what they say, then it would make sense. 

Supposedly, they're representatives of their three governments, the Hierarchy, the Republics, and the Union.

[Excella Gionne]

Are you a Divergent?

[Bob from Accounting]

The system of having three councilors doesn't make any sense.

 

And why is that, exactly?

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

And why is that, exactly?

Did you not read the rest of the post? 

Because one person from each government makes all the decisions related to dealing with other races, seemingly without consulting anyone else in the government. In a seemingly democratic system, it's seems quite.... despotic?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Did you not read the rest of the post? 

Because one person from each government makes all the decisions related to dealing with other races, seemingly without consulting anyone else in the government. In a seemingly democratic system, it's seems quite.... despotic?

 

It's a Blobvid post. Do you really expect him to do anything more than do a scornful huff of mocking derision?

[dreamgazer]

I expected it to be prefaced with "That's nonsense", so I'm pleasantly surprised.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It's a Blobvid post. Do you really expect him to do anything more than do a scornful huff of mocking derision?

I was hoping for maybe just a huff of mocking derision. I felt that the scornful part was over the top.

Now I must go sulk in a corner. 

[KaiserShep]

Did you not read the rest of the post? 

Because one person from each government makes all the decisions related to dealing with other races, seemingly without consulting anyone else in the government. In a seemingly democratic system, it's seems quite.... despotic?

 

For all the guff Star Wars may get, the galactic Senate thing seems like a better idea than having these three jokers exist as the seemingly the sole members of the center of galactic government.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

For all the guff Star Wars may get, the galactic Senate thing seems like a better idea than having these three jokers exist as the seemingly the sole members of the center of galactic government.

Probably better off having it less of a Senate and more of a proportional-type thing. Sure, the Asari and Salarians would be dominant, but aren't they already? 

It really bugs me, even though I ignore everything that takes place between 15 BBY-50 BBY, movies included, that some backwater, barely populated planet like Naboo has the same amount of representation than the awesomeness of Corellia, a system that has five garden worlds and the Galaxy's largest starship manufacturer.  

[von uber]

I always assumed they were just mouth pieces for decisions made by the respective species governments (this is hinted at I think by tevos and the beacon).
But how that works in the case of the asari is an interesting one given their government system.
I suspect bioware did not think this through that much.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I suspect bioware did not think this through that much.

That's just a given.

[Ryriena]

Something like the galactic senate would be a perfered method of government for it to be consider a democracy. What we've got now is like tribal rule were a select few rule over the others. This sounds more like a dictorship a lot more than a democracy. They should've have put that instead of it being a democracy, which it's kind of not.

I'm wondering, how these jokers lasted so long in the political arena when they mess things up so badly unless they are selected by each race instead of all races to be in the government. Each race selected their Ambassador to help forum the senate which leads to them voting again to keep the law or what not. It's somewhat like the American version but with a dash of the parliament version of the senate process.

[rekn2]

I'd wager we (the Americans) would actually be able to do it. Seriously. By the way, you are comparing the United States (in the Security Council) to humanity and the alliance in the Galactic community. I wouldn't say that's a very good comparison. In the Galactic community, we are a strong up and coming race, but hardly on par with anyone else.

 

Whereas the modern U.S. (despite the so-called decline of influence, which is debatable) is the Turian Hierarchy, Salarian Union, and Asari Republics all rolled into one. We are the dominant and most powerful military, economic, and political culture on the planet at this time. Damn straight if the U.S. wanted, we very much could make the UNSC kowtow to us. And we do have the ability to take on the rest of the world. And we would win (though it'd be a very high priced Pyrrhic victory). If it was a straight fight without nuclear weapons, we would win. Especially if it was a defensive war, we would win. If we put the pressure on Putin to get out of Ukraine, he would back down. Whereas the entire E.U. is trying to do it, and Putin is cooing about how cute they look when they're angry.

 

In fact, it's probably more accurate to put us on a level not nearly the same as the Reapers, but if it did happen, we could likely face the rest of the world militarily and put them down (though as I said, we would likely be in a very compromised position ourselves and would have very little time to overcome any issues before we too died out.)

why would we put pressure on putin? its going to cost a ton of money to russianize them if he even can. what would he get out of it? 1 of the most corrupt cultures on the planet today.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Perhaps we're not seeing the entire thing. Even the Roman Empire had a senate. At least Drew should have made an effort to mention something about representatives from other governments in another body with a triumvirate of the three dominant powers making the final decisions.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

If they were say the heads of state, like the top Dalatrass, the oldest Matriach, and the Primarch, then it'd make sense, like the Triumvirate formed by the Jedi, Fel Empire, and Galactic Alliance in Star Wars. 

[Aimi]

It really bugs me, even though I ignore everything that takes place between 15 BBY-50 BBY, movies included, that some backwater, barely populated planet like Naboo has the same amount of representation than the awesomeness of Corellia, a system that has five garden worlds and the Galaxy's largest starship manufacturer.

Senator for Naboo was also the Chommell sector representative; as one of Chommell's largest and most populous worlds, Naboo had disproportionate weight in representation. See e.g. Darth Plagueis for something of an attempt to accommodate the often bizarre nature of Rim sector politics and representation in the final century of the Republic.

Core Worlds usually managed to get around the sectorial representation issue with special dispensations for 'tradition', economic power, and the like; hence why both Corellia and Duro had senatorial representation after Ruusan. This helped to give the Core greater political power, but the fact that these Senate seats had representation without being sectorial representatives opened the door to allow for representation for other non-sectorial interests, including eventually the Trade Federation.

If they were say the heads of state, like the top Dalatrass, the oldest Matriach, and the Primarch, then it'd make sense, like the Triumvirate formed by the Jedi, Fel Empire, and Galactic Alliance in Star Wars.

Double-hatting leaders that already have to manage the internal affairs of states that incorporate hundreds of worlds and billions of souls seems like a bad idea to me.

[Ryriena]

If they were say the heads of state, like the top Dalatrass, the oldest Matriach, and the Primarch, then it'd make sense, like the Triumvirate formed by the Jedi, Fel Empire, and Galactic Alliance in Star Wars.

Yes, I agree it would make a lot more sense. They would need another government body to make sure these were kept in check with the governments rulers.

[Obadiah]

The system of having three councilors doesn't make any sense.

Maybe if we saw them contacting their governments to say what they say, then it would make sense.

Supposedly, they're representatives of their three governments, the Hierarchy, the Republics, and the Union.

I read, I think it was in the Codex or the wiki, that they actually have no power over their own governments, just the ability to represent them, and exercise influence.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I read, I think it was in the Codex or the wiki, that they actually have no power over their own governments, just the ability to represent them, and exercise influence.

Of course. But apparently, they have the power to grant a species a seat on the council and to anoint Spectres, without having to check back with their government. And they have the power to control the Citadel fleet. 

It's confusing, and would all be cleared up by actually making them the head of state.