49 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

I was in class today and thought of something. In the Mass Effect Universe we often encounter planets named after well known physicists; however, I was bothered by how very little Albert Einstein's name came up in the entirety of the series, as far as I recall he only got an Alliance cruiser named after him. Given the man's contribution to the field and his stature it seemed odd to me that all he got was a lousy Cruiser.

 

But this got me thinking some more. The mass effect as we know it doesn't seem to mesh well with our current understanding of physics. As we know, Element Zero can generate a field which reduces the mass within it to a lower, but non-zero mass. This allows ships to propel themselves to faster than light speeds -- when we know that it would take an infinite amount of energy for any object with mass to simply reach the speed of light. We also never have to deal with the time dilation, different reference frames, violating causality, etc.

 

So, since Relativity apparently doesn't effect the MEU which other wise shares a common history with that of our own universe, I got to thinking, "what if the MEU takes place in an alternate universe from our own with a different set of physical laws, instead of simply lying in our hypothetical future?" Since the MEU operates under this different set of physical laws the MEU Einstein never rose to the prominence he did within our own history by developing the Theory of Relativity. This could tie in to EDI's little tidbit about multiverses to suggest that the MEU takes place elsewhere and we need not fear the Reapers!

[AlexMBrennan]

Ahem... If there was no relativity, then what would we need mass relays and element zero for? Why would there be "faster than light" travel at all if the speed of light was of no significance?

[mybudgee]

Kip Thorne

[ImaginaryMatter]

Ahem... If there was no relativity, then what would we need mass relays and element zero for? Why would there be "faster than light" travel at all if the speed of light was of no significance?

 

I guess the speed of light really isn't that significant in the MEU, it just happens to be some arbitrary speed all light travels at. It's much like the speed of sound in this aspect. Even if it is just arbitrary though It could still be a convenient measure for velocity and distance.

[AlanC9]

That's not consistent with the Codex, or Kaidan's dialogue about FTL research, or.... actually, it's not consistent with anything about the game. The lightspeed limit is a real thing in the MEU. That's why the mass effect is important -- it's the only known way to violate that limit.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I thought eezo could reduce the mass of an object to zero. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

I thought eezo could reduce the mass of an object to zero. 

 

I think it simply reduces the mass to a non-zero positive. Even if it did reduce the mass to zero though, under Relativity it would travel exactly at the speed of light, no faster no slower -- so you still run into the same problem of traveling faster than light. FTL is a bit tricky with Relativity, possibly impossible. You would either have to have imaginary mass, use wormholes, or have something like an Alcubierre drive (which warps space around it); there's more but that's what I can think of at the top of my head.

 

That's not consistent with the Codex, or Kaidan's dialogue about FTL research, or.... actually, it's not consistent with anything about the game. The lightspeed limit is a real thing in the MEU. That's why the mass effect is important -- it's the only known way to violate that limit.

 

Sorry, I meant significant as in being some sort of special universal constant. There's a practical limit, because the engines at the time could only provide so much thrust. Imagined if I asked you to build a tower as tall as the Burj Khalifa with mud and sticks, with those materials building such a structure would be impossible. That was situation with the organics, they simply didn't have the technology to provide the necessary energy for FTL travel (and they were far from it). But in this analogy building such a structure wouldn't be impossible, if I gave you steel and concrete you could do it. That's what the speed of light is (assuming we're going with Newtonian mechanics), some arbitrarily tall building; there's nothing really special about it. And the mass effect essentially lowers that 3,000 foot limit to a 1 foot limit, so your job would be a lot easier.

[Kurt M.]

That's not consistent with the Codex, or Kaidan's dialogue about FTL research, or.... actually, it's not consistent with anything about the game. The lightspeed limit is a real thing in the MEU. That's why the mass effect is important -- it's the only known way to violate that limit.

 

Nop. That limit is continuously being "violated", either if you travel via FTL, or via mass relay. As it is said before, in the MEU it's no more than an arbitraty limit, like the speed of sound.

[Farangbaa]

I thought about this once.

 

I quickly got lost.

[Mcfly616]

We may live in a multiverse.

[Ryriena]

The Multiverse theory is already widely accepted as a scientific theory due to them finding evidence through particles physics. For example, read this article about finding more evidence to support this hypothetical theory. So it's become widely accepted in main stream science as a fact due to evidence that supports this claim.

http://www.scientifi...tational-waves/

Many still considers it a hypothetical question but still is a good chunk of the topics we talk about in physics classes. Not the mass effect story just this question in general. However, the Theory of Relativity apples too all universes that have FTL travel in them.

[BigglesFlysAgain]

I thought the codex implied that that the FTL drive of a ship somehow increased the maximum speed of light inside its area of effect, so it "cheats" relativity. At least thats what I get from what the codex explains about diffraction of light to an outside observer of a starship at FTL and someone on the ship looking out the window. Of course reducing mass to near zero won't cause this, but it will help with acceleration if you can beat light speed.

 

Codex:

 

"Faster-than-light drives use element zero cores to reduce the mass of the ship, allowing higher rates of acceleration. This effectively raises the speed of light within the mass effect field, allowing high speed travel with negligible relativistic time dilation effects."

 

 

"New space travelers ask, "What does it look like outside a ship moving faster-than-light speed?" Part of the answer can be seen in a simple pane of glass. Light travels slower through glass than it does through open air; light also moves slower in conventional space than it does in a high-speed mass effect field. This causes refraction - any light entering at an angle is bent and separated into a spectrum. Objects outside the ship will appear refracted. The greater the difference between the objective (exterior) and subjective (interior) speeds of light, the greater the refraction."

 

 

Now you can disagree with the explanation of course, but they have at least tried to think about it.

[AlanC9]

Nop. That limit is continuously being "violated", either if you travel via FTL, or via mass relay. As it is said before, in the MEU it's no more than an arbitraty limit, like the speed of sound.

Read the Codex. As BigglesFlysAgain points out, the mass effect drive raises the speed of light within the field.

And both FTL drives and mass relays utilize mass effect technology, so that's a pretty silly objection.

[JasonShepard]

I was in class today and thought of something. In the Mass Effect Universe we often encounter planets named after well known physicists; however, I was bothered by how very little Albert Einstein's name came up in the entirety of the series, as far as I recall he only got an Alliance cruiser named after him. Given the man's contribution to the field and his stature it seemed odd to me that all he got was a lousy Cruiser.

 

But this got me thinking some more. The mass effect as we know it doesn't seem to mesh well with our current understanding of physics. As we know, Element Zero can generate a field which reduces the mass within it to a lower, but non-zero mass. This allows ships to propel themselves to faster than light speeds -- when we know that it would take an infinite amount of energy for any object with mass to simply reach the speed of light. We also never have to deal with the time dilation, different reference frames, violating causality, etc.

 

Actually, you can get it to fit. Consider E=mc^2. If m is lowered by the mass effect, but energy is conserved, E has to stay the same. This forces the local speed of light to take on a larger value - allowing for FTL compared to other places. As far as local space time is concerned, you are still slower than the speed of light.

 

Of course, I have no idea what this would do to your space-time path on a diagram...

 

WRT Einstein's name not being used much - in some ways, it was nice to see exposure for other important scientists. Big E was very important, but for many people he's the only scientist they know the name of. Kepler, Herschel, Hawking all made important contributions. Furthermore, Einstein had an Alliance Carrier named after him -  which are the biggest ships that the Alliance wields (tied with dreadnoughts, but also unique to humanity).

[Kurt M.]

Read the Codex. As BigglesFlysAgain points out, the mass effect drive raises the speed of light within the field.

And both FTL drives and mass relays utilize mass effect technology, so that's a pretty silly objection.

 

1) I didn't said that FTL and mass relays didn't used mass effect tech.

 

2) Mass relays function by creating a virtually mass-free "corridor" of space-time between each other. This can propel a starship across enormous distances that would take centuries to traverse, even at FTL speeds. Before a vessel can travel, the relay must be given the amount of mass to transit by the ship's pilot before it is moved into the approach corridor. When a relay is activated, it aligns itself with the corresponding relay before propelling the ship across space.

 

FTL drives are devices which allow ships to travel at FTL speeds through space. FTL drive cores work by exposing element zero to electric currents, creating mass effect fields. It reduces the mass of an object, such as a starship, to a point where velocities faster than the speed of light are possible. With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise without bending space-time and causing time dilation.

 

So, it's the mass what's modified, and not the speed of light. An analogy would be a file compression in computers.

 

Next time, at least bother to read something before replying to someone. It tends to save a world of pain

[BigglesFlysAgain]

Not to be argumentative, but how does your codex extract trump my codex extract?

 

 

As for mentioning Eisenstein... You don't thank the wright brothers every time you get on an aircraft, or (whoever historians are sure invented the light bulb this week) when you switch the lights on. Most people don't have the time for that sort of thing, and take stuff for granted.

 

Also its  a bit disingenuous to thank him anyway, as while his predictions end up being useful, its not hard graft that gave humans FTL, but copying from the protheans.

[AlexMBrennan]

Actually, you can get it to fit. Consider E=mc^2. If m is lowered by the mass effect, but energy is conserved, E has to stay the same

I'm pretty sure mass effect trickery violates conservation of energy.

[shodiswe]

There is one central part that's been bothering me about the most central part of that theory. For the past decade or so.
While the math leading up to the very well known formula, is obviously correct in the E=mc², the interpretation is what's bothering me.

This certainly isn't the place for it though.

For very obvious reasons it makes perfect sense that the speed of light is universal all things being equal. Aswell as that of other generated energy emissions.

I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life arguing about it, or actualy trying to sort out what that means for a lot of other thigns conected to it, but I'm certain someone will come along and make a correction. Who ever that will be, will be the next Mega rockstar of Science. Or maybe it will be seen as a team effort, that's becomming more and more popular these days.

There are still things to work out and it certainly didn't nor will it end with Einstein.

One day he might be forgotten like the guy/girl who first mastered fire or invented the wheel, even if that doesn't seem likely right now with all our ways of storing data.

[shodiswe]

I think it simply reduces the mass to a non-zero positive. Even if it did reduce the mass to zero though, under Relativity it would travel exactly at the speed of light, no faster no slower -- so you still run into the same problem of traveling faster than light. FTL is a bit tricky with Relativity, possibly impossible. You would either have to have imaginary mass, use wormholes, or have something like an Alcubierre drive (which warps space around it); there's more but that's what I can think of at the top of my head.
 
 
Sorry, I meant significant as in being some sort of special universal constant. There's a practical limit, because the engines at the time could only provide so much thrust. Imagined if I asked you to build a tower as tall as the Burj Khalifa with mud and sticks, with those materials building such a structure would be impossible. That was situation with the organics, they simply didn't have the technology to provide the necessary energy for FTL travel (and they were far from it). But in this analogy building such a structure wouldn't be impossible, if I gave you steel and concrete you could do it. That's what the speed of light is (assuming we're going with Newtonian mechanics), some arbitrarily tall building; there's nothing really special about it. And the mass effect essentially lowers that 3,000 foot limit to a 1 foot limit, so your job would be a lot easier.

The Codex says the Relays creates a massless corridor, which would indicate somehow redusing all mass in it to zero. It's Sci-fiction, just deal with it. Apparently, the Relay is using Eezo to accomplish that in some way.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Codex says the Relays creates a massless corridor, which would indicate somehow redusing all mass in it to zero. It's Sci-fiction, just deal with it. Apparently, the Relay is using Eezo to accomplish that in some way.

 

To be precise it says it reduces it to a virtually mass free corridor.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The problem with using just E = mc^2 is that the equation only applies to the center of momentum frame (in Relativity every thing is relative... except for the speed of light). Otherwise we need to use the full equation:

 

E = [(mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2]^(1/2) = KE + mc^2

 

Where m is rest mass, KE is kinetic energy, and p is momentum. I'm not an expert at Relativity but I think calculating that the speed of light changes within the center of momentum frame is a misuse of the conservation of energy. Rest mass energy is simply one form of energy, presumably when the mass of an object is decreased due to the mass effect the rest mass energy is decreased and the energy in the equation is made up elsewhere (like the object moving faster, thus having more KE).

[AlanC9]

I was in class today and thought of something. In the Mass Effect Universe we often encounter planets named after well known physicists; however, I was bothered by how very little Albert Einstein's name came up in the entirety of the series, as far as I recall he only got an Alliance cruiser named after him. Given the man's contribution to the field and his stature it seemed odd to me that all he got was a lousy Cruiser.

 

It was a carrier. Cruisers are named after cities in the MEU. Carriers are named after great leaders, artists, and intellectuals.

 

One of these days people are going to start looking at the Codex before coming up with silly theories.

[AlanC9]

I'm pretty sure mass effect trickery violates conservation of energy.

 

Sure.The whole point of using a mass effect field for a mass accelerator weapon is to get energy for free when the projectile leaves the field.

 

As others have proposed, you could build a free power plant this way by lifting water lightened by a mass effect field and then recovering the free potential energy by dropping the water through a turbine or some such.

[shodiswe]

Sure.The whole point of using a mass effect field for a mass accelerator weapon is to get energy for free when the projectile leaves the field.
 
As others have proposed, you could build a free power plant this way by lifting water lightened by a mass effect field and then recovering the free potential energy by dropping the water through a turbine or some such.

Pretty much this, we don't know how much electrical energy is used in the process, but I assume it's less than the energy gain anyway. Otherwise you wouldn't gain much from using Eezo. Except maybe some kind of convenience.

[ImaginaryMatter]

It was a carrier. Cruisers are named after cities in the MEU. Carriers are named after great leaders, artists, and intellectuals.

 

One of these days people are going to start looking at the Codex before coming up with silly theories.

 

Come on dude, we don't need another David.