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[congokong]

Hawke, unlike the Warden of DA:O, seems destined to at the minimum be a grey character. Like the characters of the GTA series, Hawke is forced into a criminal role very early on when choosing to work with either Athenril or Meeran. But what I'm wondering is what actions does Hawke make that are cut-and-dry wrong? Some questionable acts are done out of desperation like with Athenril or Meeran. Hawke is a hero for certain, but can Hawke really be a good person considering everything he/she does?

 

Here are the most questionable actions I can think of.

 

1. Giving Feynriel to Torpor

 

This one is probably the most evil action in the game. It's purely for personal gain and Feynriel is an innocent. This is excluding the deaths Hawke must consider that will follow from a dreamstalker unless your Hawke is stupid enough to believe Torpor's lie about not being a threat to the physical world.

 

2. Killing Javaris

 

There aren't many circumstances where you can just kill an unarmed man. DA:O had a few. This was the only one I can think of in DA2. Javaris running did force Hawke and company on a run-around to find a toxic powder that could've been avoided if Javaris had told someone about the elf beforehand. That negligence cost a lot of lives. Still, it felt like murder to me.

 

3. Joining Meeran

 

I think becoming a mercenary in essence is being a murderer for hire.

 

4. Getting involved at all in the Last of His Line quest involving Lord Harrimont

 

From what we know through meta-gaming, it's safe to say Bhelen is indeed killing Harrimont just for being a Harrimont. By choosing to kill him you're an assassin in the political game much like Leliana was as a bard. Does that make it right? It seems everyone is fair game in the "game of thrones." We don't know Harrimont's sins but killing someone for being of a certain bloodline is rather evil. Of course, in feudalist societies this is inevitable and expected. But is helping Harrimont to defy the king of Orzammar by wiping out the Carta without knowing the truth better?

 

5. Giving the qunari relic to Isabela

 

Isabela has always bothered me. She tests your friendship by making you do extremely questionable actions for her own welfare. When I first played this my instinct was to give the relic back to the qunari to get them out of the city. Had Isabela went along with it, the city would have been saved a lot of chaos. It seemed the right thing to do. Not only did it belong to the qunari, but there was no plan B involving how to deal with them other than giving them their book so they could leave. Also, the reason Isabela needed it is injust. She wants it to appease a slaver who gave her this task for freeing hundreds of his slaves; sold into slavery after taking their money and being promised transport from the blight. Safe to say, Castillon cannot be trusted. Giving him an appeasement for stopping his monstrous act would in no way secure Isabela's life. Nor should Hawke be so eager to help Isabela lick Castillon's boots.

 

6. Making a deal with Castillon to give Isabela a ship

 

Again, Isabela expects you to do something rotten by looking the other way by failing to stop the enslavement of hundreds or thousands of slaves so she can have a ship. Even though you're not doing it yourself you're not stopping it when given the opportunity.

 

7. Letting Isabela keep the Dagger of the Four Winds which condemns the 3 pirates to a stony fate

 

Since they were pirates this one isn't so bad although it seems rather cruel to leave them helpless forever; criminal or no. Again, Isabela is just bad news.

 

8. Not helping Tallis stop the deal between the Tal'Vashok and the Duke of Orlais

 

Tallis already lied once to Hawke at this point; nearly getting Hawke killed. Can she be trusted? She also refuses to explain the "danger" the information poses to the qunari. Also, why should Hawke get involved at all in the political game between Orlais and the qunari. Paraphrasing what Aveline says, Orlais is the enemy we know. So why help defend Qunari interests by getting iinvolved and potentially making many enemies; all without knowing the full story?

 

 

How many of these actions are really "evil?" Any others?

[Althix]

become complicit in a terrorist act, helping to collect the necessary ingredients for a bomb for Anders. Hawke is not a very bright fellow, but you know... 1+1=2.

[SerTabris]

Handing Fenris over to Danarius.

[Dabrikishaw]

Giving Fenris, a former slave, back to his original slave master Danarius strikes me as the most evil thing Hawke can do .

[KaiserShep]

It wasn't until recently that I realized just how many random people you could actually kill in DA:O. My murder knife-cultist elf basically leaves a river of blood through Ferelden, now that I'm aware of it.

 

Handing Fenris over is pretty rotten, but it's a pretty interesting reveal, should you make him spare Varania, that Fenris actually wanted the markings he so laments and blames Danarius for.

 

I always found it much more fun to betray Meeran at the Gallows. Aside from the metagaming aspect of gaining coin from the nobleman in exchange for his life and getting the experience points from fighting both the nobleman's hired swords as well as Meeran and his gang later, Meeran himself rubbed me the wrong way anyway, so I found that route to be the most satisfying. Curiously, the ever-lawful Aveline will protest somewhat when you ask about Athenril's line of work as a smuggler, yet has no qualms with possibly joining a group of sell-swords who will probably kill people for money with no regard as to why.

 

As for Isabela, I really don't understand why killing Castillon can't result in her taking the ship anyway. It's not like there's some registry that she has to have fixed to pass over ownership or something. He's dead, and the ship will just sit there in the docks, all Castillonless.

[Vegeta 77]

Let meredith kill bethany.

[KaiserShep]

Let meredith kill bethany.

 

Oh man I forgot all about this. Considering everything, I would say that this is even more evil than giving Fenris to Danarius, because you're betraying the only family you have left.

[themikefest]

Killing the Dalish clan

 

Killing Aveline's husband at the beginning

[KingoftheZempk]

I don't know. Most of them really just seem evil depending on how you play Hawke. Hawke really does seem like a gray character-which isn't bad- but the choices didn't seem as gray. The choices were black and white (so it felt to me) but the results were gray, probably based on the very linear feel (ex. refusing/agreeing with Anders but he blows up the Chantry either way).

 

DAO had more evil choice I felt like. I'm hoping Inquisition will pull out all the stops.

[congokong]

Killing the Dalish clan

 

Killing Aveline's husband at the beginning

 

I don't agree. Killing the dalish was self-defense. Killing Wesley was a mercy, both for Wesley and Aveline to spare her having to do it herself.

 

 

I always found it much more fun to betray Meeran at the Gallows. Aside from the metagaming aspect of gaining coin from the nobleman in exchange for his life and getting the experience points from fighting both the nobleman's hired swords as well as Meeran and his gang later, Meeran himself rubbed me the wrong way anyway, so I found that route to be the most satisfying. Curiously, the ever-lawful Aveline will protest somewhat when you ask about Athenril's line of work as a smuggler, yet has no qualms with possibly joining a group of sell-swords who will probably kill people for money with no regard as to why.

 

As for Isabela, I really don't understand why killing Castillon can't result in her taking the ship anyway. It's not like there's some registry that she has to have fixed to pass over ownership or something. He's dead, and the ship will just sit there in the docks, all Castillonless.

 

You will get 5 rivalry points with Aveline though if you kill that nobleman for Meeran. It might have been a bug, but Aveline actually gives friendship points if you make a deal with Castillon. How could she agree with that?! She also defends giving the relic to Isabela and letting Kirkwall burn basically. Aveline puts her title aside when it comes to friends.

 

As for Isabela's ship, it doesn't make sense why you cannot take it after killing Castillon as you said. Hell, Hawke could even buy Isabela a ship. Nothing really changes though besides a few lines of dialogue. Maybe they didn't want to explore an obvious plothole. Even traveling banter afterwards makes Isabela claim to not have a ship even if you made a deal with Castillon.

 

 

Let meredith kill bethany.

 

So... true. Or how about killing a romanced Merrill?

[KaiserShep]

I could've sworn that giving Castillon the papers gains rivalry with Fenris, Anders, Aveline and Sebastian. Merrill is neutral and Varric actually gains friendship points if you comply with her wishes.

 

I do like how Aveline puts priority in her allies, though. Like she will go on and on about how Isabela is selfish, but would not accept the Arishok's demand to take her. That's why she's one of the best companions to me.

[Jaison1986]

I could've sworn that giving Castillon the papers gains rivalry with Fenris, Anders, Aveline and Sebastian. Merrill is neutral and Varric actually gains friendship points if you comply with her wishes.

 

I do like how Aveline puts priority in her allies, though. Like she will go on and on about how Isabela is selfish, but would not accept the Arishok's demand to take her. That's why she's one of the best companions to me.

 

I actually find that weird about her character. She is all about protecting and serving the people, but she will say "screw this" if it comes to Isabela, despite her actions constantly screwing over people and getting them killed. I only didn't gave Isabela to the Arishok because Castillon is the bigger fish. 

[thats1evildude]

Besides a few things that others have mentioned (selling Fenris to Danarius, giving Feynriel to Torpor) ...

 

During Loose Ends, Hawke can take the goods from the little boy Pryce and callously tossing him a coin as you leave.

 

Also during Loose Ends, murdering Lord Harriman, who had helped Ferelden.

 

Allowing Kelder Vanard to go free and taking his father's money.

 

Blackmailing Thrask with his daughter's letter.

 

Using Tarohne's books to gain power during Forbidden Knowledge.

 

During Fool's Gold, saving the greedy brother Iwan over his more good-natured brother Merin.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I actually find that weird about her character. She is all about protecting and serving the people, but she will say "screw this" if it comes to Isabela, despite her actions constantly screwing over people and getting them killed. I only didn't gave Isabela to the Arishok because Castillon is the bigger fish. 

 

I agree with the principle of loyalty to your friends and making exceptions for them.

 

With Isabela and the 'Tome, though, it's not fair to your other companions who will all suffer if the Qunari go to war with Kirkwall over it.

 

So, I have to disagree with her on that here. I tell Isabela to give it back (usually).

 

During Loose Ends, Hawke can take the goods from the little boy Pryce and callously tossing him a coin as you leave.

 

Blackmailing Thrask with his daughter's letter.

 

Using Tarohne's books to gain power during Forbidden Knowledge.

 

Eh, I always do these.

 

I, for one, hate the loathsome children BioWare uses for emotional blackmail. To hell with ventkid (ME3), Connor and Pryce.

 

Thrask is an idiot who deserved what he got.

 

Nothing wrong with learning things from dark corners. I reject the notion of "evil" knowledge.

[KaiserShep]

I never blackmailed Thrask and always let the kid run off with the stuff (the hell do I care about Athenril's money anyway?) but I always took the book's knowledge. I can never pass up a good read.

[Jaison1986]

Killing the dawrf Javaris. I mean, he is an ass, but he got framed from something he didn't do, lost everything he had and now Hawke kills him anyway. I thought it was pretty mean.

[renfrees]

Handing Fenris over is pretty rotten, but it's a pretty interesting reveal, should you make him spare Varania, that Fenris actually wanted the markings he so laments and blames Danarius for.

He knew about the boon, not the ritual, according to D.Gaider.

[coldwetn0se]

He knew about the boon, not the ritual, according to D.Gaider.

This is correct. He only knows that if he won the competition that his mother and sister would be given their freedom. He was not made aware of the "price" of winning (i.e. the Lyrium markings).

[thats1evildude]

 

Nothing wrong with learning things from dark corners. I reject the notion of "evil" knowledge.

 

Yeah, yeah, I really don't need another What is Evil speech.  

[KaiserShep]

Killing the dawrf Javaris. I mean, he is an ass, but he got framed from something he didn't do, lost everything he had and now Hawke kills him anyway. I thought it was pretty mean.

 

A friend of mine killed Javaris accidentally thinking it was Bartrand, at which point I called him a racist for thinking all Durgen'len looked the same to him.

[Ryzaki]

I don't agree. Killing the dalish was self-defense. Killing Wesley was a mercy, both for Wesley and Aveline to spare her having to do it herself.

 

 

 

You will get 5 rivalry points with Aveline though if you kill that nobleman for Meeran. It might have been a bug, but Aveline actually gives friendship points if you make a deal with Castillon. How could she agree with that?! She also defends giving the relic to Isabela and letting Kirkwall burn basically. Aveline puts her title aside when it comes to friends.

 

As for Isabela's ship, it doesn't make sense why you cannot take it after killing Castillon as you said. Hell, Hawke could even buy Isabela a ship. Nothing really changes though besides a few lines of dialogue. Maybe they didn't want to explore an obvious plothole. Even traveling banter afterwards makes Isabela claim to not have a ship even if you made a deal with Castillon.

 

 

 

So... true. Or how about killing a romanced Merrill?

 

? Can you even kill a romanced Merrill? If you talk to her even once she sides with you. Least that's been my experience.

[KaiserShep]

According to the maker of this video, Merrill is in a romance in this scene.

 

[Ryzaki]

According to the maker of this video, Merrill is in a romance in this scene.

 

 

 

True but he/she got Aveline to turn against them too. I've never been able to do that.

 

Maybe I have a bug. It doesn't matter how far or low she is rivalry I can't get her to turn on me without the romance =/

 

The one time she did I didn't speak to her (and obviously can't trigger the romance if I don't speak to her).

[KaiserShep]

Eh I don't really know how to do this without checking the wiki for details. I'll probably never kill Merrill anyway, but I do like her speech about fear and magic.

[Ryzaki]

Eh I don't really know how to do this without checking the wiki for details. I'll probably never kill Merrill anyway.

 

Maybe it's because I play mage Hawke 99% of the time (and when I don't Beth's dead). Just noticed he had a warrior Hawke, Anders and Bethany.