Bethany's so called "boring" personality is a welcome sight by Act 3 (if not sooner). Considering how difficult most of the other companions can be.
I can't think of anyone better to run away from Kirkwall with. That whole place brought nothing but pain.
Yeah, I'm kind of angry that circle Bethany doesn't follow Hawke, even if you had no romance. Why would Hawke part ways with his/her dear sister after she was finally freed? I certanly wouldn't mind have her tagging along.
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I think one of Gaider's "preferred" stories (or something he wanted to do in a comic) is a story with Bethany and Sebastian, after leaving Kirkwall. And Nathaniel as well. I could see Hawke accompanying them, but maybe parting ways later.
Personally I think that selling feynriel to Topor is the most evil thing Hawke can do. After all s/he damms a innocent boy to a fate worse than death (as Anders describes it to Merrill) and unleashes a abomination on the world for nothing but personal gain. Nothing gray or redeeming about it. It's just plain evil.
Close second for me is letting Meredith kill Bethany if she's a circle mage. I mean she's Hawkes sister, loves her/him and looked up to her/him her entire live. She helps her/him against Orsino and hasn't done anything to justify her execution in any way. Hawkes who do this are just evil d*cks.
Also executing the mages who surrender in the gallows is kind of evil. Unlike the above it can be justified, but to me the jusification seems to be a flimsy excuse.
Oh and something that isn't actually evil but kind of hypocritical:
Helping the templars as mage. Seriously Hawke basically says with this: "All mages should die or be locked up forever, except me. Because I'm awesoeme." 
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Oh and something that isn't actually evil but kind of hypocritical:
Helping the templars as mage. Seriously Hawke basically says with this: "All mages should die or be locked up forever, except me. Because I'm awesoeme."
It isn't that hard to be awesome compared to Kirkwall's mages. Take one look at Decimus or Tarohne. They're designed to be the biggest asshats you've ever seen. They're like second rate goons from a comic book.
That said, I think it's easier to play a Templar friendly mage in DAO. The story is more detailed, and you can show how capable you are of passing over demonic offers and tests in the Fade. There are more "trials by fire", so to speak, throughout DAO.
It isn't that hard to be awesome compared to Kirkwall's mages. Take one look at Decimus or Tarohne. They're designed to be the biggest asshats you've ever seen. They're like second rate goons from a comic book.
That said, I think it's easier to play a Templar friendly mage in DAO. The story is more detailed, and you can show how capable you are of passing over demonic offers and tests in the Fade. There are more "trials by fire", so to speak, throughout DAO.
As this thread kind of proves, Hawke can be a total asshat as well.
But yes most of the various blood mages are kind of crazy, one dimesional evil jerks. But I'm surprisingly ok with this. Not every villain needs to have a complex personality and so far there have always been some intriguing villains in Dragon age games.
Oh and something that isn't actually evil but kind of hypocritical:
Helping the templars as mage. Seriously Hawke basically says with this: "All mages should die or be locked up forever, except me. Because I'm awesoeme."
More like all mages stupid enough to use bloodmagic should be locked up. That's how I played my mostly templar supporting mage hawke. (Well them and that utter moron who was claiming to be a bloodmage.) There's no curing stupid. He let Feynriel go to the Keeper and then to Tevinter though 
I found it easier to be pro templar in DA2 than DAO. DA2 mages are just morons for the most part.
I thought Merrill's betrayal of Hawke has something to do with Anders' state. My understanding is that the game won't let you be without at least one mage and warrior so Aveline and Merrill only side against Hawke if their own loyalty is low and Fenris and Anders stick with him or her.
More like all mages stupid enough to use bloodmagic should be locked up. That's how I played my mostly templar supporting mage hawke. (Well them and that utter moron who was claiming to be a bloodmage.) There's no curing stupid. He let Feynriel go to the Keeper and then to Tevinter though
I found it easier to be pro templar in DA2 than DAO. DA2 mages are just morons for the most part.
I found the mages to be too stupid and the templars too crazy. I only sided with the mages because Bethany was stuck with them. Otherwise, I would just call for an rage quit option and tell them to solve this mess themselves. I'm done being nice.
More like all mages stupid enough to use bloodmagic should be locked up. That's how I played my mostly templar supporting mage hawke. (Well them and that utter moron who was claiming to be a bloodmage.) There's no curing stupid. He let Feynriel go to the Keeper and then to Tevinter though
Did your anti-blood mage Hawke pass up the blood mage specialization?
I found the mages to be too stupid and the templars too crazy. I only sided with the mages because Bethany was stuck with them. Otherwise, I would just call for an rage quit option and tell them to solve this mess themselves. I'm done being nice.
I'd loved a rage quit option. Alas.
Did your anti-blood mage Hawke pass up the blood mage specialization?
Course he did. I went FM mostly.
BM animations look stupid as hell anyway. *stabs self in stomach* Hawke avoiding hitting something vital is amazing.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 26 mai 2014 - 10:26 .
*chant*I'd loved a rage quit option. Alas.
From my viewpoint, all the examples listed here are exercises in "evil is a matter of perspective."
Sure, I'd question the morals -- and empathy, and just ...everything -- of someone who'd enable the murder of their sibling. But I wouldn't call that person evil.
Alright, from which perspective is selling feynriel to Topor not evil? Enlighten me.
"Morally questionable" is not the same as evil.Alright, from which perspective is selling feynriel to Topor not evil? Enlighten me.
"Evil" may be an exaggeration with this one, but I find that giving Varric the lyrium idol shard -- while he's showing symptoms of "indoctrination" -- is a bit questionable. I am all for research into dangerous things, but not without taking precautions. You're putting Varric's mental-heath in serious risk, and he'd then be a danger to others in addition to himself (for which reason I wouldn't even give it to companions I dislike).
I've never given him the shard before, despite knowing now that the only effect it has is some extra rune slots for Bianca. After what happened to Bartrand and all of those people that served him, I'd have to be pretty daft to think giving it to him is a good idea.
I've never given him the shard before, despite knowing now that the only effect it has is some extra rune slots for Bianca. After what happened to Bartrand and all of those people that served him, I'd have to be pretty daft to think giving it to him is a good idea.
Not to mention it might have consequences in Inquisition. I would be disappointed if the whole shard thing is forgotten.
Yeah, I'd like to see Varric occasionally have issues hearing things or something. It doesn't need to get to the point where his character is broken for the Inquisitor, but something to give reason enough for concern. I'm assuming that Inquisition may very well be the last we see of his character, at least as a playable one, so if that's the case, I think something could be made of it. I have a feeling it won't amount to anything, but one can only hope.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yeah, I'd like to see Varric occasionally have issues hearing things or something. It doesn't need to get to the point where his character is broken for the Inquisitor, but something to give reason enough for concern. I'm assuming that Inquisition may very well be the last we see of his character, at least as a playable one.
After what happened to Meredith, that'd be a copout lol.
A part of me wants to see him lose his mind and have Bianca explode in his face. Then Sera becomes my go to archer.
Heh, I'd be pretty amused to have the consequences become that drastic for Varric if you gave him the shard. It'd bug the sh*t out of players who did it to get the rune slots, but that would only add to the fun XD
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Lot of "cruel" examples here and alot of examples of standing by what you believe for both sides, take the Bethany being killed by Meredith, thats not evil, bethany decides to side with the mages hawke think's she is wrong, if it was anyone outwith her being a relation would it be a "evil" thing? no it wouldnt, only time i sided with templars with bethany alive though was her as a grey warden so i dont know the choices you have in game there, but im guessing the choices are side with her or continue siding with templars, for me a 3rd choice should be present, knock her the frack out an deal with her later (in a argument sense)
I've yet to encounter "evil" choices in any Bioware game tbh, being a dick yeah there plenty of them, but evil no.
I'm doing a few more play throughs of DA2 though will need to do one where it puts me in the position with meredith an Bethany see how it plays out an what choices are available, but as i said in that scene if it just 2 choices you have then for me it just an example of the game being a dick an not evil
Lot of "cruel" examples here and alot of examples of standing by what you believe for both sides, take the Bethany being killed by Meredith, thats not evil, bethany decides to side with the mages hawke think's she is wrong, if it was anyone outwith her being a relation would it be a "evil" thing? no it wouldnt, only time i sided with templars with bethany alive though was her as a grey warden so i dont know the choices you have in game there, but im guessing the choices are side with her or continue siding with templars, for me a 3rd choice should be present, knock her the frack out an deal with her later (in a argument sense)
I've yet to encounter "evil" choices in any Bioware game tbh, being a dick yeah there plenty of them, but evil no.
I'm doing a few more play throughs of DA2 though will need to do one where it puts me in the position with meredith an Bethany see how it plays out an what choices are available, but as i said in that scene if it just 2 choices you have then for me it just an example of the game being a dick an not evil
Bethany can't basically do anything but side with the mages at first. It's not really her choice since Meredith basically decaleres that all mages (including her) must die. If you have the chance of surrendering and geting executed on the spot or trying to fihgt, which one are you gonna choose?
And no you don't have to stop supporting the templars in order to spare Bethany.
Once Orsino starts to use blood magic Bethany immediately abandons him and even helps a pro-templar Hawke to kill Orsino. Afterwards she surrenders herself to Meredith, who wants to execute her. You can then intervene and tell Meredith to spare her or let her go ahead. At this point Bethany hasn't participated in any blood magic, helped you against Orsino and basically has never been anything but a decent person. So even if she wasn't Hawkes sister letting her be murdered would still be a evil/extremely d*ckish thing in my opinion.
Just being curious: What would be considered an "evil" choice for you.
Eh blood mage is a waste of points.
For me it was "point." I only put one into it just so I could use blood magic when my mana dropped in long battles. Between using the heal spell on yourself, blood magic, and potions you can pretty much cast continuously if done correctly. My second specialization was force mage just to get the +50 fortitude. People always say you need a healer but I never needed Anders' exclusive healing powers or spirit healing for my own mage . Maybe it was because I played on normal. Anders or my mage would occasionally use the heal spell to replenish 80% of an ally or our own health. That 1-2 times per campaign I'd need to revive companions I could use that potion that does it.
"Morally questionable" is not the same as evil.
That said, demons are manipulative. The way I saw it, it was a situation where Hawke didn't realise what they'd done until after the fact. I would rather say Hawke wasn't strong enough to resist the demon's manipulation, rather than actively collaborating with the demon. The redeeming moment, short of hunting down the abomination, is when Hawke owns up and takes the blame for their own fault.
To my perspective, that quest is one of the best examples presented to the player of just how dangerous the fade and it's denizens are.
To me the Night Terrors example is the most cut-and-dry evil decision. It's a crossroads for Hawkes I think. There's no justification for taking Torpor's deal besides ambition. You can head-canon that your Hawke gave into temptation just like every other companion excluding Justice-Anders to still make them out to be somewhat decent I suppose.
You really do see the dangers of demons here. If you take Aveline she reflects afterward on how the Gallows may be necessary after all if this is what mages have to fight off. It's very sad. And as much as I overall like Merrill, she really is an idiot for defending demons. She may need them for her mirror, but demons are the main reason mages are persecuted.
Considering how almost everyone falls under the demons' influence Night Terrors was pretty much a suicide mission yet Marethari pressures you to go in and only gives a junk tome as a reward that's worth like 70 silver.
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