208 réponses à ce sujet

[Gtdef]

I think that blood magic itself is not any more dangerous than any other kind of magic but because it allows mages to cast spells way above their normal abilities. they do dumb things and end up getting possessed by demons who are masters of the discipline. Other than the possessed we don't really see anyone being affected by using it. The rest of them are just psychopaths and cultists like the necromancer that kills Hawke's mother can't remember the name and Tahrone.

 

Zathrian, Idunna, Orsino, Avernus, The unnamed blood mage that followed Uldred and asks for mercy, all of them are pretty much sane. They choose to do dirty work and they can stop if they want.

[KainD]

 

Again blatantly false. There are different sorts of magic, which draw upon clearly different energies. Blood Magic IS a unique school in taht it demands blood to even function though.

 

No - all magic draws on the fade. If you are tranquil - you can't do magic. Blood magic is a source not a school. 

 

 

Actually dreamers don't. All that is special about dreamers is that they can enter the Fade at will, and kill others while in the Fade. The spells they use to drive others insane are not neccesarily any different than the entropy school's.

 

So there we go - entropy ''school'' is no different from what blood magic does in regards to mind. 

 

 

Because that is what BioWare wants. Deal with it.

 

I can very easily deal with it, if I just get a rational answer as to why. I don't see any logical reasons currently. 

 

They could for example say - blood magic has consequences because using blood to cast spells damages caster brain cells, and they become clinically unstable, having hallucinations and going insane or something - BAM, so easy, and makes sense, no complaints. 

But nope, I have no such explanations. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

No - all magic draws on the fade. If you are tranquil - you can't do magic. Blood magic is a source not a school. 

Actually all magic does NOT draw from the Fade. Taint magic from the Darkspawn springs to mind. Blood Magic IS a unique school, and is not just like any other magic. So in conclusion: You are still wrong.

 

So there we go - entropy ''school'' is no different from what blood magic does in regards to mind. 

Actually yes it is. Entropy does NOT take direct control of your mind, but only project visions, which may or may not drive you insane. It does NOT force you to act upon these visions though. Blood Magic ACTUALLY takes control of your body and mind. A very clear difference.

 

I can very easily deal with it, if I just get a rational answer as to why. I don't see any logical reasons currently. 

 

They could for example say - blood magic has consequences because using blood to cast spells damages caster brain cells, and they become clinically unstable, having hallucinations and going insane or something - BAM, so easy, and makes sense, no complaints. 

But nope, I have no such explanations. 

 

There already are several examples of why Blood magic should have unique consequences. For example it is known that Blood Mages attract demons far more readily than normal mages. Demons constantly tormenting and taunting you, would be a very unique consequence of Blood Magic, that could not faithfully be conveyed if a player had access to Blood Magic (unless they blew their budget on making Blood Mage players feel like special snowflakes).

[renfrees]

Allowing player to become BM in DAII was one of the biggest mistakes DA crew made. DAO at least had some consequences.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Allowing player to become BM in DAII was one of the biggest mistakes DA crew made. DAO at least had some consequences.

Even DA:O failed horribly on the matter. Blood Magic should NEVER had been accesible to the player.

[Gtdef]

Blood magic is a source not a school. 

entropy ''school'' is no different from what blood magic does in regards to mind. 

 

That's inaccurate. Then by the same logic entropy is a source and not a school because it draws power from dead things.

Blood magic is the art of manipulating the blood, directly through causing harm or compelling someone to do something, or indirectly by using the blood to fuel other spells.
Entropy school is the art of causing decay or using the energy that is created from decaying matter.

 

Those 2 schools don't really have similarities other than their macabre nature.

[KainD]

 

Actually all magic does NOT draw from the Fade. Taint magic from the Darkspawn springs to mind. Blood Magic IS a unique school, and is not just like any other magic. So in conclusion: You are still wrong.

 

Darkspawn are a product of the fade in the first place. 

 

 

Actually yes it is. Entropy does NOT take direct control of your mind, but only project visions, which may or may not drive you insane. It does NOT force you to act upon these visions though. Blood Magic ACTUALLY takes control of your body and mind. A very clear difference.

 

Feynriel told the bandits to slay each other, not mind control at all. 

 

 

 

There already are several examples of why Blood magic should have unique consequences. For example it is known that Blood Mages attract demons far more readily than normal mages. Demons constantly tormenting and taunting you, would be a very unique consequence of Blood Magic, that could not faithfully be conveyed if a player had access to Blood Magic (unless they blew their budget on making Blood Mage players feel like special snowflakes).

 

All mages are at danger of possession. Every mage is a special snowflake. 

[KainD]

Even DA:O failed horribly on the matter. Blood Magic should NEVER had been accesible to the player.

 

Also any traditionally morally wrong actions shouldn't be allowed to the player. This is a fairy tale, and we are the big good hero. 

[KainD]

That's inaccurate. Then by the same logic entropy is a source and not a school because it draws power from dead things.

Blood magic is the art of manipulating the blood, directly through causing harm or compelling someone to do something, or indirectly by using the blood to fuel other spells.
Entropy school is the art of causing decay or using the energy that is created from decaying matter.

 

Those 2 schools don't really have similarities other than their macabre nature.

 

It's all just magic. Blood magic might as well be the same thing only amplified by blood as a power source. 

[Hellion Rex]

Darkspawn are a product of the fade in the first place.

All we know is what the Chantry tells us. We obviously don't have the full story. The taint could very well be something Thedas-born.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Darkspawn are a product of the fade in the first place. 

Debatable. Still doesn't change the fact that Taint Magic has NOTHING to do with the Fade.

 

 

Feynriel told the bandits to slay each other, not mind control at all. 

And he was in Tevinter as well. Probably a Blood Mage by then. Even if not, we don't know what Feynriel did to the men, all we know is that he made them attack eachother. Which there is a nifty little spell in Entropy which does aswell.

 

All mages are at danger of possession. Every mage is a special snowflake. 

Blood Mages are in particular danger of possession.

 

 

Also any traditionally morally wrong actions shouldn't be allowed to the player. This is a fairy tale, and we are the big good hero. 

It isn't about being able to do something morally objectionable (not that such a thing should matter since you don't beleive in such things). It is about undermining their own efforts at portraying Blood Magic as an evil and highly dangerous power to use. Having the player be able to use it, and suffer no ill consequences, completely undermines the effots of BioWare. Thus it was a mistake from the start to make it acessible to the player.

[KainD]

 

Debatable. Still doesn't change the fact that Taint Magic has NOTHING to do with the Fade.

 

I believe it does. If it's debatable let's not argue about it until we know more. 

 

 

 

And he was in Tevinter as well. Probably a Blood Mage by then. Even if not, we don't know what Feynriel did to the men, all we know is that he made them attack eachother. Which there is a nifty little spell in Entropy which does aswell.

 

I'm sure his master lend him a few slaves to save a random girl in Kirkwall from bandits. Again if entropy can control the mind, there is no difference. And when I hear ''told'' I assume control. 

 

 

 

Blood Mages are in particular danger of possession.

 

What supports this? Why? 

If I get a simple logical answer to this questions I'll take it. 

 

 

 

It isn't about being able to do something morally objectionable (not that such a thing should matter since you don't beleive in such things). It is about undermining their own efforts at portraying Blood Magic as an evil and highly dangerous power to use. Having the player be able to use it, and suffer no ill consequences, completely undermines the effots of BioWare. Thus it was a mistake from the start to make it acessible to the player.

 

Ok, so let's completely drop the ''evil'' part. Blood magic is dangerous to use WHY? 

 

 

And here btw is another question - why should it actually matter to the protagonist? You know people tend to NOT be able to defeat the whole blight almost alone and tend to die fighting hordes of darkspawn and the archdemon - but the protagonist did it. Why be good enough to save the world doing countless impossible feats, but avoiding being possessed as a blood mage can't be one of those feats? 

[Gtdef]

Blood Mages are in particular danger of possession.

 

Not inherently though. That's because they consort with demons. I don't see why someone that learned blood magic by a human mentor would be in more danger of possession unless blood magic itself is tapping in demonic powers (which was suggested with Merrill when she destroyed the barrier in Sundermount but nothing concrete).

 

 

 

 

Again if entropy can control the mind, there is no difference. And when I hear ''told'' I assume control. 

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think It's established that through blood magic you take direct control of a person while through entropic magic you create visions in your enemy's mind. 

 

It's not the same if someone forces you to take a gun and blow your head as if someone takes away everything you love and you think that suicide is the only way out. The result is the same and it's a form of control but it's different in principle and methodology.

[KainD]

 

Again if entropy can control the mind, there is no difference. And when I hear ''told'' I assume control.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think It's established that through blood magic you take direct control of a person while through entropic magic you create visions in your enemy's mind. 

 

It's not the same if someone forces you to take a gun and blow your head as if someone takes away everything you love and you think that suicide is the only way out. The result is the same and it's a form of control but it's different in principle and methodology.

 

I just assume that one is harder and requires extra fuel in the form of blood magic OR lyrium. Imo entropy ritual fueled by tons of lyrium could control somebody like blood mages do, I think it's the same, just that blood magic is easier and more convenient.  

[SerCambria358]

If it is to convey that Blood Magic is a dark and evil power, which BioWare wants, then you will need a whole lot more than just a few lines of dialogue and a side quest.

 

It is far easier for BioWare to simply keep such power out of the hands of the player, and then commit fully to really show the consequences of Blood Magic, instead of having the player walk around like one big contradiction to everything they try to convey.

You say that as if players wont want to use it for evil, why couldnt a side quest emphasize the nature of Blood Magic? You say the player would be a contradiction but there are plenty of characters who can handle the influences of BM let alone the main character. You're over thinking it 

[EmperorSahlertz]

You say that as if players wont want to use it for evil, why couldnt a side quest emphasize the nature of Blood Magic? You say the player would be a contradiction but there are plenty of characters who can handle the influences of BM let alone the main character. You're over thinking it 

Not at all. The problem is that a player could pick it up, and literally NEVER use it, and not suffer any consequences. That is not the message that BioWare wants to convey regarding Blood Magic, even the slightest use of it, is suppsoed to forever haunt the user, like Malcolm Hawke. He only used Blood Magic once, but the rest of his life he was haunted by it. A player character can pick it up and suffer ZERO ill consequences, and that is a mistake on BioWare's part.

[SerCambria358]

Not at all. The problem is that a player could pick it up, and literally NEVER use it, and not suffer any consequences. That is not the message that BioWare wants to convey regarding Blood Magic, even the slightest use of it, is suppsoed to forever haunt the user, like Malcolm Hawke. He only used Blood Magic once, but the rest of his life he was haunted by it. A player character can pick it up and suffer ZERO ill consequences, and that is a mistake on BioWare's part.

So why not make consequences for just being a blood mage? I dont see why someone would become one just to never use it but regardless that shouldnt stop the negative effects of it from taking place. You act as though features cant be added to accommodate these details,  again you're over complicating it

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'm sure his master lend him a few slaves to save a random girl in Kirkwall from bandits. Again if entropy can control the mind, there is no difference. And when I hear ''told'' I assume control. 

Why wouldn't he? A slave's life is nothing to a Magister and he would probably just be happy to see his apprentice advance in the arts. And you would be dead wrong in your perceptions. Entropy does NOT control the mind, it manipulates illusions which are projected into the mind of the mage's victims. Your mind is still your own.

 

KainD, on 26 May 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

What supports this? Why? 

If I get a simple logical answer to this questions I'll take it. 

WoT mentions that Blood Magic attracts demons more than other magic. As for a logical reason: It is beyond stupid to look for logical reasons to magical matters. The reasons Blood Magic attracts demons is because that is what it does. BioWare made it so, so that is the way it is.

 

KainD, on 26 May 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

Ok, so let's completely drop the ''evil'' part. Blood magic is dangerous to use WHY? 

BioWare. We don't need any explanation beyond that, but if BioWare wishes, they can add to or even solve the mystery behind Blood Magic.

 

KainD, on 26 May 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

And here btw is another question - why should it actually matter to the protagonist? You know people tend to NOT be able to defeat the whole blight almost alone and tend to die fighting hordes of darkspawn and the archdemon - but the protagonist did it. Why be good enough to save the world doing countless impossible feats, but avoiding being possessed as a blood mage can't be one of those feats? 

Because not only do you not get possessed, you do not suffer any side effects or feel any consequences at all. All it really changes is giving you +2 con. As a playable character OF COURSE you would be able to resist any potetial possession (otherwise it would be a quick "Game Over" message). But as I mentioned, not only do you resist possession, you do not even suffer any consequences to your decisions, even though BioWare wants to portray Blood Magic as a deeply corrupting influence.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So why not make consequences for just being a blood mage? I dont see why someone would become one just to never use it but regardless that shouldnt stop the negative effects of it from taking place. You act as though features cant be added to accommodate these details,  again you're over complicating it

Because the AMOUNT of features that would have to be added, for this ONE specialization unique to ONE class, would surpass ANYTHING any other class or specialization would get.

[KainD]

 

Why wouldn't he? A slave's life is nothing to a Magister and he would probably just be happy to see his apprentice advance in the arts. And you would be dead wrong in your perceptions. Entropy does NOT control the mind, it manipulates illusions which are projected into the mind of the mage's victims. Your mind is still your own.

 

Except blood magic is officially forbidden in Tevinter currently, and magisters don't waste their slaves for such rituals just because.

 

Uhuh, Entropy:

The caster engages in subtle mental manipulation that disorients the target for a short time.

The caster forces a target to cower in fear, unable to move. 

Etc. Really sounds like illusion magic. Not mind control at all. 

 

 

 

WoT mentions that Blood Magic attracts demons more than other magic. As for a logical reason: It is beyond stupid to look for logical reasons to magical matters. The reasons Blood Magic attracts demons is because that is what it does. BioWare made it so, so that is the way it is.

 

WoT mentions no such things. We've been there thoroughly. 

Blood magic attracts demons same as any other magic. 

 

 

 

BioWare. We don't need any explanation beyond that, but if BioWare wishes, they can add to or even solve the mystery behind Blood Magic.

 

They at least need to explain the dangers. I've never seen any dangers that blood magic poses in any of DA games so far. I need an elaboration. Not talking about the player, talking about every single blood mage in the game, I've never seen any of them face any consequences of using blood magic. 

 

 

Because not only do you not get possessed, you do not suffer any side effects or feel any consequences at all. All it really changes is giving you +2 con. As a playable character OF COURSE you would be able to resist any potetial possession (otherwise it would be a quick "Game Over" message). But as I mentioned, not only do you resist possession, you do not even suffer any consequences to your decisions, even though BioWare wants to portray Blood Magic as a deeply corrupting influence.

 

What are the other dangers? What is corruption? 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I had hoped and figured that the reason that they removed it as a specialization was that they would find a way to include the option in the storyline itself so as to be better able to write consequences of it.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

Like I said - I was until pretty recently under the impression that blood magic was pretty neutral but it seems according to Bioware it's not supposed to be.  Do I understand exactly why?  No, I honestly don't.  A couple things stick out at me though:

 

1) The World of Thedas specifically says that the more violent the pain or sacrifice, the more powerful the blood magic.  Note that this is not the same as simply more blood.  That suggests that the power of blood magic is not actually just the manipulation of blood, but how "bad" the act is.

 

2)  The World of Thedas specifically says that blood magic makes the mage more susceptible to demons.  (I would argue that using the word susceptible instead of more alluring indicates that something about blood magic lowers a mage's ability to refuse a demon rather than just making the mage more enticing.)

 

3)  There have been at least hints that blood magic may weaken the veil. 

 

I think Bioware wants to make blood magic evil and corrupting.  I honestly don't think they've done a very good job of that in either dragon age games.  Even in DAO, I chalked up characters reactions to be more because someone assumed blood magic was evil, not that it actually was evil. 

 

Perhaps eventually they'll be able to introduce blood magic in such a way that players can get a better grasp of what blood magic entails.  While I would love to see that, I can understand why they wouldn't want to spend an extensive amount of time on a storyline that would affect only a small percentage of players.  They're already going to have to do a lot of work for the different races in DA:I.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

WoT mentions no such things. We've been there thoroughly. 

Blood magic attracts demons same as any other magic. 

 

http://books.google....gon age&f=false

[KainD]

Quyk Sylvyr Can I please get WoT quotes for your 1) and 2)? 

[KainD]

http://books.google....gon age&f=false

 

Alright the first one is logical. Pain and suffering weakens the veil, which leads to greater magic feats, while also having extra fuel from blood magic. That's like killing 2 birds with one stone. 

What about the part where blood mages are more susceptible to demons? I didn't find anything about that.