208 réponses à ce sujet

[Quyk Sylvyr]

Look at bottom right of that page.  It says "mages who experiment with blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits, such as pride demons and risk becoming abominations by way of possession."

[KainD]

Look at bottom right of that page.  It says "mages who experiment with blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits, such as pride demons and risk becoming abominations by way of possession."

 

The word 'experiment'' bothers me. When you experiment you perform an action that you are not really sure about, experiments often go wrong. 

If it said ''mages who use blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits'' instead, I wouldn't think otherwise. 

 

Other than that. If pain and suffering really fuels the power that one can gain from blood magic even further I don't even understand how one can fight against a blood mage. It seems that no matter which way the fight goes - whether they get wounded or their enemy, in the end it only serves to give them more power. That would make blood mages unstoppable killing machines that can tear enemies apart and then use those torn enemies to tear even more enemies apart like a snowball falling from a big snow hill. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Other than that. If pain and suffering really fuels the power that one can gain from blood magic even further I don't even understand how one can fight against a blood mage. It seems that no matter which way the fight goes - whether they get wounded or their enemy, in the end it only serves to give them more power. That would make blood mages unstoppable killing machines that can tear enemies apart and then use those torn enemies to tear even more enemies apart like a snowball falling from a big snow hill. 

Yes? Which is EXACTLY the reason that Blood Magic is so feared.

[SerCambria358]

Because the AMOUNT of features that would have to be added, for this ONE specialization unique to ONE class, would surpass ANYTHING any other class or specialization would get.

Adding a side quest and unique dialogue/scenes is a lot? We're getting that from the other classes anyways

[KainD]

Yes? Which is EXACTLY the reason that Blood Magic is so feared.

 

They never showed blood mages so powerful in games or novels. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Adding a side quest and unique dialogue/scenes is a lot? We're getting that from the other classes anyways

That wouldn't be enough to convey what BioWare wants the player to see Blood Magic as. Having only a few dialogue lines and a side quest would be HORRIBLE, since it would utterly fail at what BioWare hopes to achieve.

[KainD]

That wouldn't be enough to convey what BioWare wants the player to see Blood Magic as. Having only a few dialogue lines and a side quest would be HORRIBLE, since it would utterly fail at what BioWare hopes to achieve.

 

What is it that they hope to achieve? 

[SerCambria358]

That wouldn't be enough to convey what BioWare wants the player to see Blood Magic as. Having only a few dialogue lines and a side quest would be HORRIBLE, since it would utterly fail at what BioWare hopes to achieve.

And what exactly do you think it would take to capture the nature of Blood magic?

[EmperorSahlertz]

They never showed blood mages so powerful in games or novels. 

Titus tore apart a group of Qunari in seconds. Burned them to a crisp.

[EmperorSahlertz]

And what exactly do you think it would take to capture the nature of Blood magic?

If it was to be accesible to the player, an entire game. A game where you as the protagonist is a Blood Mage. That way they can incorporate all the nuances they want. However, the game being what it is, there are several classes and limited budget, so BioWare cannot go overboard making sure Blood Magic is portrayed faithfully in the player.

 

However, if the player cannot access Blood Magic, then very little has to be done for the game to convey that Blood magic is a dark, corrupting, even evil, yet extremely potent, source of power.

[SerCambria358]

If it was to be accesible to the player, an entire game. A game where you as the protagonist is a Blood Mage. That way they can incorporate all the nuances they want. However, the game being what it is, there are several classes and limited budget, so BioWare cannot go overboard making sure Blood Magic is portrayed faithfully in the player.

 

However, if the player cannot access Blood Magic, then very little has to be done for the game to convey that Blood magic is a dark, corrupting, even evil, yet extremely potent, source of power.

Again for a third time, you're over thinking this.

 

But regardless if it isnt in the game, then so be it, I prefer 2handed warriors anyways.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

The word 'experiment'' bothers me. When you experiment you perform an action that you are not really sure about, experiments often go wrong. 

If it said ''mages who use blood magic are more susceptible to demonic spirits'' instead, I wouldn't think otherwise. 

 

 

 

True, and I understand where you're coming from.  However, developers have specifically said blood magic is supposed to be evil and have consequences.  One would assume that these are the consequences they were talking about. 

 

Also just because I'm in the middle of  replaying DA2, after Merrill betrays Hawke in the fade during act 2, Hawke says "you're already in more danger than most mages."  Merrill's response is "Because of the blood magic.  I know.  I'll be more guarded. . ."  It's at least shown with a diplomatic Hawke.  Not sure if the same conversation is had with a sarcastic or aggressive response.

[KainD]

Just thinking about all the nuances so far thought about, let's say that blood magic is dangerous to use because:

 

1) Tearing people to shreds while inflicting great pain on them and sucking their blood out and mind controlling them probably involves such feelings as anger and pride.

2) Magic weakens the veil, and more powerful magic weakens the veil more, specially when pain and suffering is involved, and blood magic can be used to amplify spells beyond the natural resources that a mage possesses known as their mana reserve. 

 

I mean it's very logical that such things attract demons and make it easier for them to cross the veil. 

But here's the thing - it still can be done right, the demons might be fought off or even enslaved by the mage to do their biding. It doesn't HAVE to end badly for the mage, bad consequences aren't a given. A mage can still use blood magic and be satisfied with the results. 

 

Why can't the player just do it right? Be an ass and get away with it? I mean we can already kill ''innocents'' and steal their stuff while we are at it in the previous games. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Again for a third time, you're over thinking this.

 

But regardless if it isnt in the game, then so be it, I prefer 2handed warriors anyways.

And again for the third time, I am not over-thinking it. I am stating what BioWare said was their goal. YOU are the one continuesly saying that what BioWare believe can't be achieved through a quest and a few lines of dialogue, could totally be achieved. I am sorry, but I am gonna stick with what the professionals say on this matter. BioWare does not believe that Blood Magic cannot be portrayed in a manner they desire in the hands of the player, without spending way too much time on a single mage specialization, so they decided to not adress it at all, and instead make sure they can portray it as they want, through NPCs. End of story.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

Just thinking about all the nuances so far thought about, let's say that blood magic is dangerous to use because:

 

Why can't the player just do it right? Be an ass and get away with it? I mean we can already kill ''innocents'' and steal their stuff while we are at it in the previous games. 

 

Because the entire problem is that Bioware hasn't been able to portray that the PC is an ass for using the blood magic in the first place.  People know when they're killing innocents that it's wrong.  I also think Bioware has been pretty vague on exactly how blood magic works which adds to the confusion.

[KainD]

Because the entire problem is that Bioware hasn't been able to portray that the PC is an ass for using the blood magic in the first place.  People know when they're killing innocents that it's wrong.  I also think Bioware has been pretty vague on exactly how blood magic works which adds to the confusion.

 

I don't want to believe ( yet ), that DA is heading the direction of objective evil and the ''evil always pays'' rout. I don't personally believe that killing someone for personal benefit makes one an ass, but even if it does in someones eyes. Why can't the protagonist be an ass? We are getting less and less roleplaying, and more railroading. 

I understand that they have some plot in mind, but if it only can involve a very particular mindset protagonist and all the companions would only follow such and all are against blood magic, then it's pretty shallow. 

At this point, what's the point of creating OUR protagonist? Why not take a set background, name etc, and roleplay that char that fits into the story. 

[SerCambria358]

And again for the third time, I am not over-thinking it. I am stating what BioWare said was their goal. YOU are the one continuesly saying that what BioWare believe can't be achieved through a quest and a few lines of dialogue, could totally be achieved. I am sorry, but I am gonna stick with what the professionals say on this matter. BioWare does not believe that Blood Magic cannot be portrayed in a manner they desire in the hands of the player, without spending way too much time on a single mage specialization, so they decided to not adress it at all, and instead make sure they can portray it as they want, through NPCs. End of story.

The main issue Bioware has is the issue of its evil nature and how to make that clear, not capturing every detail of blood magic. The problem is that an organization branching from the chantry wouldnt tolerate something so sinister. That was the issue that they were trying to work out not the issue you've blown out of proportion.

 

If a legitimate representation of BM took an entire game do you think they would have even attempted to implement it into DA:I? Your assumptions arent supported by what was said in the interview, my suggestion can be supported due to the fact that it was actually in the game till it apparently scarpped. They did not want to misrepresent the ability from the get go yet still attempted to allow us to use it well into development. That doesnt sound like the game long process you insist on

Modifié par SerCambria358, 26 mai 2014 - 04:26 .

[Quyk Sylvyr]

I don't think Bioware is trying to railroad the PC, and  I would expect several "evil options" available to the PC.  The problem with blood magic is telling the story of blood magic in such a way that the PC knows there's something wrong with blood magic in the first place.  Both of the first two games failed in this, and never really gave an indication that there was anything wrong with blood magic (at least from my perspective). 

 

Your PC may not be against blood magic.  It may be as simple as never getting the opportunity to learn blood magic.

[Devtek]

Except blood magic is officially forbidden in Tevinter currently, and magisters don't waste their slaves for such rituals just because.

It isn't officially forbidden in Tevinter, it is "discouraged" but still widely practised, just not in public. (pg 109 of WoT if you really want a reference)

 

They never showed blood mages so powerful in games or novels. 

 

There is quite a big one actually...blood magic is the only way to Physically enter the fade, I say that is pretty damn powerful.  Although there isn't exactly a full story about her, in one of the letters in WoT (pg 109) the writer talks about Tirena of the Rock who used blood magic to boil the blood of multiple crews of qunari dreadnaughts.  Could the destruction of the ships have been accomplished another way? Probably but freaking boiling people alive from the inside would take an immense amount of control compared to the rather crude magic we see otherwise.  There is a problem with portraying that in a game b/c of the "gamish factor" that says a player character can't be non-kill-able or else the game becomes trivial.  They could have implemented a mechanic for blood magic that when you ran out of mana you start using your life to cast spells as a risk/reward mechanic but they decided to story up blood magic instead.

 

As for unique content / mechanics whatever for Blood Mages, it would not just have to be for that single specialization. You are forgetting the Reaver warrior specialization (which IS a specialization in DAI) which is a form of blood magic. Reavers use blood magic to increase their combat abilities and their own pain / wounds gives them more power as they draw upon the blood and the pain from battle.  Hell one of a Reaver's abilities is to consume the energy of the freshly dead! I fail to see how this form of blood magic would be any less "evil" than a mage using blood magic except for the fact that they are a mage. They could have conceivably created a rogue variant of blood magic that for example let them inherently cloud the minds of enemies making them even harder to hit etc.  That way the whole "blood magic needs consequences" could apply to every character instead of simply shoehorning one type of blood magic into the "too evil to depict properly" category.

[TheKomandorShepard]

DA:O has blood mage class, It did not require a completely different game, but it had consequences.

LoL it doesn't have any consequences no one even call you on that outside 1 event and it is cut from them game.

 

 

There are more though i cant think of them off the top of my head, regardless 4 is more than enough to justify your character being sane and blood magic doesnt work that way. Why'd you say "no"? Theres a class dedicated to opening tears in the veil, thats not something to say no to. You used opening portals as a reason not to include BM but its already in the game

 

As far only those behave sane (and in fact 3 of them used blood magic only once or two). If you want you can justify everything in fiction doesn't mean it will make it credible.We still don't know about rift mage so i would suggest wait and see.As i said simple they can't or don't want involve consequences of blood mage and that have a lot consequences 

[Uccio]

There is just one gigantic hole in the Bio´s attemp to over-demonize BM. Tevinter Imperium. Thedas wide Imperium, lasted for millenias. And used a lot of blood magic.

[Uccio]

I'm not sure what you mean. It doesn't sound that ideal, no matter how long it lasted. They worshipped demons during this time. And drained so many slaves that they weakened the Veil in places. That's partly why Kirkwall is such a cesspool to this day. People are still paying for their hubris.

 

 

Well you can´t have a continent wide empire for millenias if your main tool is so evil that it corrupts and destroys the user  out right. 

 

Old Gods are not demons.