208 réponses à ce sujet

[king jacky]

mmmmhhhhh bloody magic 

[SerCambria358]

To be fair, shared beliefs are regularly wrong and misguided. Common belief is different from verified truths.

Same can be said about an individuals beliefs. If someone said that bombing a school is not negative to them, would they be correct only because shared belief strongly disagrees? This person is saying killing people and a natural need for power is not negative to them therefore it is not negative at all.

[Todd23]

Being a Reaver is blood magic in every way, you use the life force of your own body and your foes in order to better your own performance. That is Blood magic, by definition

Except for the fact that it's not. The only time a reavers use life force in any way is while using devour. And if that's a spell, I'M a mage who casts spells every meal. Drinking blood doesn't turn mages into blood mages, and even ingesting the dragon's blood isn't a spell. The blood itself is not powering anything, least of all a spell. No matter how immoral it may seem. or how many similarities to blood magic you may find, you can't just say it's the same thing and make it true.

[KainD]

Magic can make you want something against your will, BM will make you crave it despite not initially wanting that power.

Are you kidding me? Blood magic is not a sentient being that dominates your mind, its just magic, YOUR magic. If you like it then you use it, if not then not. Dafuq? You don't make any sense.

[Devtek]

Same can be said about an individuals beliefs. If someone said that bombing a school is not negative to them, would they be correct only because shared belief strongly disagrees? This person is saying killing people and a natural need for power is not negative to them therefore it is not negative at all.

 

Of course individual beliefs can be wrong, i simply meant that you shouldn't argue X because Y% of people think its right.

[KainD]

There are plenty of examples of mages who never wanted to use blood magic, using blood magic because they have no option left other than being killed. There are also plenty of examples of people who never wanted power, getting it, and then being corrupted by it...

So they liked it after they tried it, what's wrong with that?

[KainD]

Of course individual beliefs can be wrong

Only in regards to material world.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The description is literally "warriors using blood magic" how is that not  blood magic.

Because that has been retconned since?

[SerCambria358]

Except for the fact that it's not. The only time a reavers use life force in any way is while using devour. And if that's a spell, I'M a mage who casts spells every meal. Drinking blood doesn't turn mages into blood mages, and even ingesting the dragon's blood isn't a spell. The blood itself is not powering anything, least of all a spell. No matter how immoral it may seem. or how many similarities to blood magic you may find, you can't just say it's the same thing and make it true.

The ingestion of blood is not magic but the effect it has on the individual is magic, therefore its blood magic. You dont need cast a spell inorder to use blood magic.

[Todd23]

What affect did using blood magic have on the story of DA:O?

Because I don't recall any such effects.

You could mention being a blood mage in awakening. There was also a side thing after the circle was saved if you used blood magic and Wynne survived. It was pretty cool, but they ultimately removed it. So, almost no consequence to blood magic whatsoever. But at least there was SOMETHING as supposed to da2.

[SerCambria358]

Are you kidding me? Blood magic is not a sentient being that dominates your mind, its just magic, YOUR magic. If you like it then you use it, if not then not. Dafuq? You don't make any sense.

Just because something isnt sentient doesnt mean it cant influence you especially when its magic, im making sense, you just dont know how magic works in the DA universe. Drugs arent sentient but they still hold influence of addicts despite their willingness to quit them. Blood magic can be used once and influence you your entire life, we've already established that you dont have to like BM in order to use it. 

 

You've turned a simple process into a complicated mess because you cant realize whats ok to you isnt ok to the general DA community 

[Todd23]

The ingestion of blood is not magic but the effect it has on the individual is magic, therefore its blood magic. You dont need cast a spell inorder to use blood magic.

The effect wasn't magic. And you really do need to use actual magic for you to... use magic.

[Devtek]

Because that has been retconned since?

 

Where was it retconned?  The ability to consume the life force of your enemies or the recently dead is a magical ability. They sacrifice their own life to fuel their attacks, that is magic. As they lose blood they go into a frenzy, magic that uses blood as fuel. Blood in DA is inherently magical, even if it is from a non-magical creature (tevinter mages using slaves' blood for example).  A reaver isn't a beserker, they don't simply work themselves into a fury, they are in a literal blood-lust which lets them do things that a normal warrior can't.

[SerCambria358]

The effect wasn't magic. And you really do need to use actual magic for you to... use magic.

How is it not magic?! You can use your own life force to inflict damage to the foes spirit, thats just one example

[KainD]

Just because something isnt sentient doesnt mean it cant influence you especially when its magic, im making sense, you just dont know how magic works in the DA universe. Drugs arent sentient but they still hold influence of addicts despite their willingness to quit them. Blood magic can be used once and influence you your entire life, we've already established that you dont have to like BM in order to use it.

You've turned a simple process into a complicated mess because you cant realize whats ok to you isnt ok to the general DA community

If using drugs is more pleasant than being healthy to a person they don't quit, if not they quit, it's all up to them and what they consider more important. They can say anything they want, but it's all up to them.

Lets sort out the mess: does blood magic lead to the person in question suffering any physical problems or death or possession that can't be avoided?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Where was it retconned?  The ability to consume the life force of your enemies or the recently dead is a magical ability. They sacrifice their own life to fuel their attacks, that is magic. As they lose blood they go into a frenzy, magic that uses blood as fuel. Blood in DA is inherently magical, even if it is from a non-magical creature (tevinter mages using slaves' blood for example).  A reaver isn't a beserker, they don't simply work themselves into a fury, they are in a literal blood-lust which lets them do things that a normal warrior can't.

In DA2 it was retconned to be literally just normal people (as normal as dragon cultists get anyway), who drank the blood of a Dragon. The power of the Dragon's blood bestowed the abilities of the Reaver upon the embiders.

 

It is magical, but it STILL isn't Blood Magic. Apparently it is one of the most resilient misconceptions amongst the community to stamp out, that magic involving blood is not automatically Blood Magic...

[SerCambria358]

If using drugs is more pleasant than being healthy to a person they don't quit, if not they quit, it's all up to them and what they consider more important. They can say anything they want, but it's all up to them.

Lets sort out the mess: does blood magic lead to the person in question suffering any physical problems or death or possession that can't be avoided?

Thats not how addiction works

 

Because something is avoidable doesnt mean it doesnt come with negative effects. Thats common sense

[thats1evildude]

Another tiresome debate about the ethics of blood magic. Maybe next you can argue over whether Loghain was right to abandon Cailan. 

 

The far more important point against allowing a blood mage specialization is that they weren't properly modelling what the magic is actually capable of. Where were the quests resolved by controlling an NPC's mind or by spying on their dreams? Why couldn't you summon demons? Why couldn't you walk around with a dozen slaves in tow and slit their throats whenever you wanted a power boost? The blood magic specialization in DAO and DA2 was more like a castrated version of blood magic as described in the lore. If you're not going to do it justice, then why even bother?

[KainD]

Thats not how addiction works

Because something is avoidable doesnt mean it doesnt come with negative effects. Thats common sense

Yes it is. People do things that they want to do always. Any moment any person can stop whatever it is they are doing, again if they really want to.

If it is avoidable, then it's up to you to make it work and to be good enough to be satisfied with the results. Many they things pose dangers and people overcome them.

[KainD]

The far more important point against allowing a blood mage specialization is that they weren't properly modelling what the magic is actually capable of. Where were the quests resolved by controlling an NPC's mind or by spying on their dreams? Why couldn't you summon demons? Why couldn't you walk around with a dozen slaves in tow and slit their throats whenever you wanted a power boost? The blood magic specialization in DAO and DA2 was more like a castrated version of blood magic as described in the lore. If you're not going to do it justice, then why even bother?

 

And that's what the should have said - ''we can't make the player awesome enough, so soz.'' 

[SerCambria358]

Yes it is. People do things that they want to do always. Any moment any person can stop whatever it is they are doing, again if they really want to.

If it is avoidable, then it's up to you to make it work and to be good enough to be satisfied with the results. Many they things pose dangers and people overcome them.

Thats pure ignorance on the condition of addiction, that is not true at all.

 

Again that doesnt conclude that whatever is in question doesnt come with consequences.

[KainD]

 

Again that doesnt conclude that whatever is in question doesnt come with consequences.

 

Yes it does. Skydiving doesn't come with consequences of dying because of a malfunctioning parachute, that's merely a danger. Blood magic doesn't have consequences as well, only dangers. 

[SerCambria358]

Yes it does. Skydiving doesn't come with consequences of dying because of a malfunctioning parachute, that's merely a danger. Blood magic doesn't have consequences as well, only dangers. 

Im done here

[Devtek]

In DA2 it was retconned to be literally just normal people (as normal as dragon cultists get anyway), who drank the blood of a Dragon. The power of the Dragon's blood bestowed the abilities of the Reaver upon the embiders.

 

It is magical, but it STILL isn't Blood Magic. Apparently it is one of the most resilient misconceptions amongst the community to stamp out, that magic involving blood is not automatically Blood Magic...

 

I realize that not all magic that involves blood is blood magic. It is unfortunate that the specializations in DAII never had quests associated with them at all as the only thing to go on for them is their descriptions, I don't recall warrior Hawke ever drinking dragon blood but he could still be a reaver, which is more from lack of development time than anything I think.  Hopefully they are able to have specialization quests again in DAI where warrior inquisitor can drink dragon blood.  The means of how blood mages and reavers perform their skills / spells is far too similar to be dismissed that they are related if not exactly the same.  The point in regards to this thread was that if the reason for blood magic not being available to the player was that they couldn't adequately show the consequences then the reaver class should have similar problems as well.  Demons don't just possess mages after all.  I don't think a demon who witnessed a reaver in a blood lust feeding off his pain and the death of things around him would consider it any different than a mage doing the same.

[Han Shot First]

What affect did using blood magic have on the story of DA:O?

 

Because I don't recall any such effects.

 

Originally it was supposed to.

 

There is cut content that can be found on youtube of Wynne confronting a blood mage PC about some of the odd spells they were using in clearing out the Mage Tower. At least in the dialogue path chosen in the vid, it ends in a battle with Wynne and the Templars.