309 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

I'm not sure if my math is right but on the Tsent with max AP weapon damage (no gear bonus, everything else max) CSMG = 1946 dps and Lancer = 2005 dps.

 

I guess that would depend on whether or not the CSMG armor bonus is from the base damage or not.

 

I usually just use the weapon calculator spreadsheet so I don't have to bother doing things like this by hand.

 

For a Turian Sentinel w/ 6 in Veteran (max weapon damage), Rail III, AP IV, damage barrel and mag upgrades for each, it outputs:

 

CSMG

 

Health Burst DPS 1665

Health Sustained DPS 1030

Armor Burst DPS 2259

Armor Sustained DPS 1397

 

Lancer

 

Health Burst DPS 2056

Health Sustained DPS 1491

Armor Burst DPS 2006

Armor Sustained DPS 1455

 

When I said 10% earlier, that was for armor DPS.  As for the defense multiplier of the CSMG, it basically is a 1.5x tacked on at the end.  Math wise it would be similar to if it was a base damage multiplier except that it does not affect the ammo damage calculation (although it "increases" armor DR).

 

edit:

 

Should just say it looks like this:

 

Armor Damage = [(BaseDmg + base_modifier)*(1+sum_weapon_bonus) - [50*(1-sum_armor_piercing)(1-sum_armor_weakening)]]*1.5

 

Collector Adept is the only guy that has a base weapon damage modifier for it.  Oh and I left out the headshot / debuff term.

 

edit2: had a stupid error, made it more clear.

[me0120]

Simple enough. I didn't know the armor damage was a multiplicative weapon damage bonus. I calculated the Lancer pretty accurately but, like I said, I did the CSMG as if it was an additive. I guess the Collector Adept really benefits from it then.

[LemurFromTheId]

While Lancer seems to have better sustained DPS against armor, that's not the case in reality, because unlike Lancer CSMG will regenerate ammo even when you use quick powers like Overload, Incinerate or Warp while shooting. In my experience Lancer results in more downtime during which you can't shoot or use your powers, despite its larger magazine.

 

Also, while the armor DPS difference isn't all that big, CSMG is still much better at headshotting. Brutes, Ravagers, Pyros, Banshees, Atlases, Praetorians, Scions... they all have heads or other weak spots, and CSMG is better at hitting them.

[Deerber]

Sustained DPS for an ammo regen weapon is like the stupidest and most useless stat ever... Just sayin'.

[capn233]

Sustained DPS for an ammo regen weapon is like the stupidest and most useless stat ever... Just sayin'.

 

It isn't completely useless.  Your actual armor DPS for anything bigger than a Ravager will be in between the Burst and Sustained since you can't one-clip it.

 

Gold Brute... need to make up around 2-3k damage with powers to one-clip.  And even if you do you aren't getting weapon DPS while you are casting, so it will dip a little.

[Deerber]

It isn't completely useless.  Your actual armor DPS for anything bigger than a Ravager will be in between the Burst and Sustained since you can't one-clip it.

 

Gold Brute... need to make up around 2-3k damage with powers to one-clip.  And even if you do you aren't getting weapon DPS while you are casting, so it will dip a little.

 

It is useless because, if you took them from Cyonan's stats, it accounts for the full recharge after you empty the clip. And if you do it like that, you're significantly lowering your damage output, so... It's useless in that sense.

 

Besides, I can easily kill 3 brutes with a CSMG on the QFE before running out of ammo (using powers too, of course), so I'm not sure where you're taking those numbers.

[capn233]

It is useless because, if you took them from Cyonan's stats, it accounts for the full recharge after you empty the clip. And if you do it like that, you're significantly lowering your damage output, so... It's useless in that sense.

 

Besides, I can easily kill 3 brutes with a CSMG on the QFE before running out of ammo (using powers too, of course), so I'm not sure where you're taking those numbers.

 

I didn't take them from Cyonan's sheet, I took them from the weapon calculator (although he probably uses a similar method).

 

Also your QFE has a weapon and power damage debuff as well as likely a shitload of incendiary ammo DPS.

[Deerber]

I didn't take them from Cyonan's sheet, I took them from the weapon calculator (although he probably uses a similar method).

 

Also your QFE has a weapon and power damage debuff as well as likely a shitload of incendiary ammo DPS.

 

Me? Incendiary ammo? Noooooo, no way!

 

To be fair though, I never abuse the worst bug, just the standard IA one.

[LemurFromTheId]

It is useless because, if you took them from Cyonan's stats, it accounts for the full recharge after you empty the clip. And if you do it like that, you're significantly lowering your damage output, so... It's useless in that sense.

 

Besides, I can easily kill 3 brutes with a CSMG on the QFE before running out of ammo (using powers too, of course), so I'm not sure where you're taking those numbers.

 

In Cyonan's spreadsheet the no-reload-cancel value is for when you fire until the weapon overheats and then wait for it to recharge. Reload-cancel value is for when you stop firing just before it overheats and wait for it to recharge. So the latter one indeed is the correct sustained DPS value.

 

You're able to kill 3 brutes with CSMG because you regularly stop firing to use powers, letting the ammo regenerate. But your weapon DPS during that period will be close to the sustained damage value (ignoring all the bonuses, of course).

 

Sustained DPS values for recharging weapons isn't useless, but you have to understand what it means, and you have to put it in context. It is useless if you just compare two weapons and say that weapon A is better than weapon B because of higher DPS.

 

EDIT: One more thing... Sustained DPS gives you the upper limit of how much damage a weapon can do in a given time period. But while many weapons can never reach that if you also use powers (unless you're perfect at combined reload hiding and reload canceling), CSMG is an exception to this, because it will start its ammo regen immediately when you stop firing, making it uniquely efficient. This is why it can beat Lancer's sustained DPS in a majority of cases.

[capn233]

Me? Incendiary ammo? Noooooo, no way!

 

To be fair though, I never abuse the worst bug, just the standard IA one.

 

Ha ok.

 

My point is simply that your actual weapon dps is going to be in between the two numbers.  Sure it is weighted a lot closer to the Burst most of the time than the sustained number.  I put those up there because that shows the worst case for each.

 

Also obligatory: Claymore does 2100 armor dps even while casting  powers.