309 réponses à ce sujet

[megabeast37215]

Lancer has less bullet spread than the CSMG so if you claim that you can't headshot at more than melee range with it then either you can't control the recoil or you can't headshot at more than melee range with CSMG.
 
I don't know what all the fuss is over CSMG.  It is good as an anti-armor sidearm.  It is solidly mediocre as a primary.

You know.. you say that but my in game experience tells me differently.

The fuss is about a super light gun that makes decently quick work of bosses.. boss killing is good. It's also not a chore to use like the Hurrdurrcane or the Punisher.

[capn233]

best name I've heard courtesy of k&p:

L-a pronounced LaDasha

 

 

Reminds me of the East vs West Bowl.

[capn233]

You know.. you say that but my in game experience tells me differently.

The fuss is about a super light gun that makes decently quick work of bosses.. boss killing is good. It's also not a chore to use like the Hurrdurrcane or the Punisher.

 

Go test the Lancer and CSMG on the same character and then tell me which has less bullet spread.

 

Other light guns that have better armor DPS than the CSMG are the Talon and Wraith.  If you expand that to sustained DPS you end up adding things like the Eagle and a whole bunch of other whacky guns.

[megabeast37215]

Go test the Lancer and CSMG on the same character and then tell me which has less bullet spread.
 
Other light guns that have better armor DPS than the CSMG are the Talon and Wraith.  If you expand that to sustained DPS you end up adding things like the Eagle and a whole bunch of other whacky guns.

Talon, Wraith and Eagle don't have piercing options which negate 90% armor DR.

[Cyonan]

Go test the Lancer and CSMG on the same character and then tell me which has less bullet spread.

 

The Lancer has a smaller spread but a higher accuracy penalty for firing, meaning if you spray and pray you aren't going to hit as much as you would with the CSMG.

 

Talon, Wraith and Eagle don't have piercing options which negate 90% armor DR.

 

All those guns get to enjoy using their damage increasing mods while still having 65% armour ignore.

 

They're all better off using that setup than they would be with a 90% armour ignore. Even the CSMG would be, if it had an armour ignore mod that wasn't a barrel.

[capn233]

The Lancer has a smaller spread but a higher accuracy penalty for firing, meaning if you spray and pray you aren't going to hit as much as you would with the CSMG.

 

 

All those guns get to enjoy using their damage increasing mods while still having 65% armour ignore.

 

They're all better off using that setup than they would be with a 90% armour ignore. Even the CSMG would be, if it had an armour ignore mod that wasn't a barrel.

 

Go test the Lancer in a solo with the CSMG.  Shoot a wall if you want.  The CSMG will make a wider pattern.  I just did this yesterday on a Human Soldier.

CSMG is most likely being compared in people's minds to the Hurricane, while Lancer is being compared to the Harrier.  CSMG is more accurate than Hurricane, and Lancer is less accurate than Harrier, ipso facto CSMG is more accurate than Lancer.  I feel into this trap until I looked at the stats and did a test yesterday.

 

Even if the penalty is worse per shot, it isn't working out much after the 1.5 ooc penalty is applied to both of the zoom penalties.

 

Also as to the last point of the quoted post and in response to mega, CSMG does a lot more armor DPS with Barrel and APIV than any other HVB setup, except possibly for Incendiary Cheese^TM.  Hence I compared with damage barrels and AP IV for each weapon.  And more to the point, if you want to not run the damage barrel on CSMG for ammo priming, it isn't ideal given that the rate of fire is relatively high, which means less prime chance relative to nearly all those others to begin with.  If you were running HVB for Warp Ammo, that will give you higher armor damage if primed, but that is also true for nearly everything else, even the pistols.  It won't be true for the Eagle, but big deal  The whole point is the Eagle can have similar armor DPS to the CSMG... which might tell you about how wonderful CSMG armor damage really is.

 

In reality, CSMG is an ok infinite ammo sidearm that punches above its weight for armor damage.  That's it.  If am talking primaries that weigh less than 1, I can get more health, shield, barrier, and armor damage from a bunch of weapons which include the Eagle and Hornet.  Now if you want to like the CSMG just because it is fairly mild mannered recoil wise, that is fine.  But it is absurd to comment that Lancer can't hit things out of melee range and the CSMG can.

[Cyonan]

Go test the Lancer in a solo with the CSMG.  Shoot a wall if you want.  The CSMG will make a wider pattern.  I just did this yesterday on a Human Soldier.

CSMG is most likely being compared in people's minds to the Hurricane, while Lancer is being compared to the Harrier.  CSMG is more accurate than Hurricane, and Lancer is less accurate than Harrier, ipso facto CSMG is more accurate than Lancer.  I feel into this trap until I looked at the stats and did a test yesterday.

 

Even if the penalty is worse per shot, it isn't working out much after the 1.5 ooc penalty is applied to both of the zoom penalties.

 

I did test it, and the Lancer had a wider spread when using spray and pray.

 

I'm not saying that the Lancer has terrible accuracy or can't hit anything outside of melee range or even that the CSMG is a better weapon, but I am saying that the CSMG is a more accurate weapon.

 

The main advantage of the Lancer is that it can sustain its burst DPS for longer than the CSMG can, which is a fairly big deal for unlimited ammo weapons.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

This has all gotten too complicated. Could someone just make a list, please, of weapons that can be used without offending other BSNers on the basis that they are either too powerful, not powerful enough, too accurate, not accurate enough, or the wrong color.

 

Thanks in advance.

[TheNightSlasher]

This has all gotten too complicated. Could someone just make a list, please, of weapons that can be used without offending other BSNers on the basis that they are either too powerful, not powerful enough, too accurate, not accurate enough, or the wrong color.

That's easy. None.

[Cyonan]

This has all gotten too complicated. Could someone just make a list, please, of weapons that can be used without offending other BSNers on the basis that they are either too powerful, not powerful enough, too accurate, not accurate enough, or the wrong color.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

All weapons are a crutch. So are powers, consumables, equipment, using kits in general, playing on a monitor/TV, having any form of control device such as a keyboard, or even merely existing.

 

Anybody using the methods mentioned above is required to 1v1 in the thunderdome to redeem their epeen.

[capn233]

I did test it, and the Lancer had a wider spread when using spray and pray.

 

I'm not saying that the Lancer has terrible accuracy or can't hit anything outside of melee range or even that the CSMG is a better weapon, but I am saying that the CSMG is a more accurate weapon.

 

The main advantage of the Lancer is that it can sustain its burst DPS for longer than the CSMG can, which is a fairly big deal for unlimited ammo weapons.

 

Was this with or without Stability bonus?  If it wasn't you made sure not to move the mouse left or right?

 

Here is the easy version of the test with a 100% stab turian.

 

 

If anything, I might concede that the accuracy is basically the same.  But that still doesn't give CSMG a greater effective range than Lancer unless you are just talking fighting stability.  And in that case it is still hyperbole to claim that there is such a disparate difference in range if you actually use them back to back, and especially considering Lancer does more damage to mooks to begin with.

[Cyonan]

Was this with or without Stability bonus?  If it wasn't you made sure not to move the mouse left or right?

 

Here is the easy version of the test with a 100% stab turian.

 

If anything, I might concede that the accuracy is basically the same.  But that still doesn't give CSMG a greater effective range than Lancer unless you are just talking fighting stability.  And in that case it is still hyperbole to claim that there is such a disparate difference in range if you actually use them back to back, and especially considering Lancer does more damage to mooks to begin with.

 

I know how to handle my recoil, but I tested it again with 100% stability. Same results: CSMG had less spread. Not by a huge margin, but it was still a smaller spread.

 

To clarify here, I am not saying that there is a huge difference or trying to imply that the Lancer's accuracy is in the same category of the AT-12 or anything like that. You can stop trying to argue against that, because it's not what I'm trying to say.

 

The CSMG however is still a bit more accurate which at the longer ranges can result in a few more hits or headshots against smaller targets. The Lancer has its own set of benefits and I don't even necessarily think that it's a worse gun than the CSMG.

[RustyBuckets02]

This has all gotten too complicated. Could someone just make a list, please, of weapons that can be used without offending other BSNers on the basis that they are either too powerful, not powerful enough, too accurate, not accurate enough, or the wrong color.
 
Thanks in advance.

It has reached the point where someone will take offence to anything you use.

Like I said, I know the harrier is better but I like the lancer, and the csmg for that matter, and will always use what I feel like. Some people have way too much to say on what kits and guns other people can and can't use.

[David Diablo]

It has reached the point where someone will take offence to anything you use.

Like I said, I know the harrier is better but I like the lancer, and the csmg for that matter, and will always use what I feel like. Some people have way too much to say on what kits and guns other people can and can't use.

 

It has always been that someone will take offence to anything that you DO on BSN! 

[capn233]

I know how to handle my recoil, but I tested it again with 100% stability. Same results: CSMG had less spread. Not by a huge margin, but it was still a smaller spread.

 

To clarify here, I am not saying that there is a huge difference or trying to imply that the Lancer's accuracy is in the same category of the AT-12 or anything like that. You can stop trying to argue against that, because it's not what I'm trying to say.

 

The CSMG however is still a bit more accurate which at the longer ranges can result in a few more hits or headshots against smaller targets. The Lancer has its own set of benefits and I don't even necessarily think that it's a worse gun than the CSMG.

 

I don't think it really has more spread, but that is fine.

 

I know what you are saying, the latter bit of my post was directed towards previous posts claiming that CSMG can consistently headshot at medium and long range and that Lancer can only do it at melee range.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

there's still one gun that's way better than both the lancer and the harrier: avenger....on full auto. 

[q5tyhj]

Lancer can only HS at melee range?   
 

 

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Lancer can only HS at melee range?   
 

Yes. And Harrier never runs out of ammo.

[me0120]

Shuriken. 

[SafetyShattered]

Well, both my lancer and harrier are pretty low levels, but I prefer my lancer as well. Don't get me wrong I know the harrier does more dps etc. but i just like the way the lancer handles better.

[TheNightSlasher]

M-99 Saber.

[SafetyShattered]

M-99 Saber.

 

Also this.

[Terminator Force]

I can get a good hit rate with the Lancer even from a distance. That doesn't change that the Harrier is still more accurate which means more hits or more headshots.

 

The heat based weapons also tend to have lower sustained DPS because their recharge time is longer than any reload in the game, even if you don't overheat the weapon.

 

I am aware of how to use both of those weapons and if you look at my first post in this thread you'll even notice the very first thing I said was "I like the Lancer more than the Harrier".

 

Both weapons are great, the Harrier is just a bit better. You also generally shouldn't have ammo issues unless you're playing a map with troll ammo boxes like Condor(that's a bit too situational though to be making claims based off of it).

 

 

The Harrier more accurate? To the naked eye the square rectangle thingy when you zoom the gun in while standing and shooting non-stop seem exactly the same on both guns too me from just playing with both guns back to back? Not to mention if the target is too far away for both guns, using hard cover is preferred. Good luck pulling off hard cover on the Harrier without some big stability help (really wish the Harrier wasn't bugged in this area at all. It really is a weakness, cause in hard cover with the much more narrow bullet spread/extra room for error, is where you really need the extra stability to keep the bullets on the target).

 

And I'd also forget about sustained fire rate. Burst dps is what I always look for & where it's at. And the Lancer has it very good there + at a 102 bullets sustained at lvl.X with Heat Sink. Meanwhile after 100 bullets the Harrier guy has to go running for the ammo box, again. While the Lancer guy repositions or scans for another target in the meantime while it quickly reloads.

 

TOTAL DAMAGE FOR BOTH GUNS AT 102 & 100 TOTAL AMMO =

 

Lancer X - 8649.6

Harrier X-12950.0

 

Yeah, this should rest my case. But, lol, I know there'll be folks who will refuse to see this as very hard to refuse evidence against the Harrier. "GAME ON!"

[Terminator Force]

I'm actually quite surprised at all the support for the Lancer. I spent AGES using it and trying to find a reason to KEEP using it. And in the end I came to the conclusion that the only thing going for it is that it is fun to use. But in terms of pure killing power? Megabeast pretty much summed it up - there is no reason whatsoever to take a Lancer if you have a Harrier or CSMG.

There are only TWO areas that Lancer > Harrier:

1) On Platinum because of ammo, but then CSMG trumps Lancer on Plat.

2) It's hipster to take a Lancer over the Harrier because the latter is considered a noob weapon because it is so OP. But really, a Harrier will shred a target to pieces before a Lancer even gets going.

 

No, the Lancer will shred the target while the Harrier gets going to get more ammo.

[Terminator Force]

That gun is X almost a year. Still not impressed dven a bit.

Go and learn something about the subject you are so eager to argue about. According to Cyonan's spreadsheets it's base multiclip dps with RC(i.e. no overheat) is 500. single clip is 800.

 

Single clip dps is 848. Go play some more.