309 réponses à ce sujet

[Ribosome]

Yes, but can it kill all of the enemies at once? No. Because only the Revenant can 

[Turian Master Race]

If the Harrier is cheese and the Lancer is better, does it mean that the Lancer is super-cheese?

[me0120]

The Harrier more accurate? To the naked eye the square rectangle thingy when you zoom the gun in while standing and shooting non-stop seem exactly the same on both guns too me from just playing with both guns back to back? Not to mention if the target is too far away for both guns, using hard cover is preferred. Good luck pulling off hard cover on the Harrier without some big stability help (really wish the Harrier wasn't bugged in this area at all. It really is a weakness, cause in hard cover with the much more narrow bullet spread/extra room for error, is where you really need the extra stability to keep the bullets on the target).

 

And I'd also forget about sustained fire rate. Burst dps is what I always look for & where it's at. And the Lancer has it very good there + at a 102 bullets sustained at lvl.X with Heat Sink. Meanwhile after 100 bullets the Harrier guy has to go running for the ammo box, again. While the Lancer guy repositions or scans for another target in the meantime while it quickly reloads.

 

TOTAL DAMAGE FOR BOTH GUNS AT 102 & 100 TOTAL AMMO =

 

Lancer X - 8649.6

Harrier X-12950.0

 

Yeah, this should rest my case. But, lol, I know there'll be folks who will refuse to see this as very hard to refuse evidence against the Harrier. "GAME ON!"

 

 

- The targeting bloom means nothing. Go shoot an executioner and see how close the bloom is to what the actual accuracy is.

- The cover recoil is glitched on the Harrier. Would you prefer that they be switched? Don't even bother bringing it up.

- Burst damage matters for mooks more and sustained is better for bosses. 

- You can sustain damage if you use right hand advantage.

- If you use grenades even the Lancer user will be looking for ammo boxes.

- Why don't you compare total damage with bonuses? (about 43k damage for Harrier and 28k for Lancer)

 

blah blah blah.

[megabeast37215]

M-99 Saber.

Is a piece of crap without Marksman/Devastator Mode/Hunter Mode.

[capn233]

If I fire the 100 Harrier bullets I usually still have 36.

[TheNightSlasher]

Is a piece of crap without Marksman/Devastator Mode/Hunter Mode.

Well, that's your opinion. I'd prefer it over harrier and lancer anyday, even on a kit without RoF boost.

[megabeast37215]

Well, that's your opinion. I'd prefer it over harrier and lancer anyday, even on a kit without RoF boost.

I don't like how it takes 2 headshots or 3 other shots to kill shielded mooks. You know what other gun does the same thing? The Valiant.. but the Valiant is lighter, has better mods, no reticle bloom or recoil, and a much faster reload. Saber sounds MUCH cooler and doesn't have a hipfire penalty, which is a big deal.. but they both do the same job IMO.. and I feel the Valiant does it better.

[Kurt M.]

Which "Harrier cover glitch" are you talking about?

[Lacika2000]

Yesterday I decided to use the Harrier after quite some time again. It was a disappointment compared to the Lancer (on my overload-less TGI... I know, I know, heretics). Somehow with the Lancer I have a better rythm or flow on the TGI compared to the Harrier. And this is after being almost 'married' to it for quite some time. When I have unlocked the Lancer, took it for a spin, just to recoil in horror how bad it was at level I. I took it out again at level VII and never looked back, at least not on platinum. I find it very useful to be able hold the line against bosses, take a curveball from a Banshee or Atlas, use a stimpack and keep firing. With the Harrier I constantly have to leave the line to refill at the ammobox, but with the Lancer I can hold the line. Helps the team to breath while the pressure is really on, at least in my PUG experience...

Compared to the CSMG: I use the CSMG on my Vorcha soldier. It is somehow very natural on that character, because it gives a nice rythm of flamer 1 sec, burst fire, carnage, burst fire and repeat. For me it worked very well on platinum, proved to be very effective with AP rounds, and without annoying the rest of the team with endless flaming of everything, or messing with biotics.

So on platinum for the Vorcha I would never take the Lancer over the CSMG,but for the TGI now I really prefer the Lancer over the Harrier (both being level X).

But hey, this is just how I feel about it, and it is probably worthless to the BSN crowd anyway, since I run my TGI without overload (again because of the flow of things)... Silly...

[Kurt M.]

Ah, it's this one?

 

"Oddly, the Harrier seems to benefit from reduced recoil in situations where it would be expected to be harder to control; "from the hip" fire under cover and aiming while moving seem to keep it on-target better than aiming from cover. This is due to a bug in which the recoil values of the Harrier (in cover and out of cover) are inverted, meaning that it is much more beneficial to overall accuracy if you fire out of cover."

 

Having in mind I love the Juggernaut (and also "soft-covering" as a Human Soldier), that's actually an advantage

[capn233]

Which "Harrier cover glitch" are you talking about?

 

Harrier has more recoil when you are in cover than when you are firing out of cover.  This has to do with the way recoil is handled in game.

 

If you are in cover, no matter if you are zoomed or not, the game uses the "recoil" value for the recoil.

 

If you are out of cover and zoomed in, the game uses "zoomrecoil" x 1.5, or "recoil" x 1.5 if hipfired.

 

The Harrier has most of its stats copied and pasted from the Mattock, although they changed the recoil value from 3 to 4.5.

 

zoomrecoil is 1.5, and when multiplied by 1.5 is 2.25.  2.25 < 4.5, hence it recoils less when zoomed, out of cover, than when in cover.

[Kurt M.]

Harrier has more recoil when you are in cover than when you are firing out of cover.  This has to do with the way recoil is handled in game.

 

If you are in cover, no matter if you are zoomed or not, the game uses the "recoil" value for the recoil.

 

If you are out of cover and zoomed in, the game uses "zoomrecoil" x 1.5, or "recoil" x 1.5 if hipfired.

 

The Harrier has most of its stats copied and pasted from the Mattock, although they changed the recoil value from 3 to 4.5.

 

zoomrecoil is 1.5, and when multiplied by 1.5 is 2.25.  2.25 < 4.5, hence it recoils less when zoomed, out of cover, than when in cover.

 

Ninja'd 

[capn233]

Who knows why they chose what they did, they are mainly Mattock values, with the recoil changed.

 

As an aside, Mattock also should theoretically exhibit the same issue, but it is probably masked by the fact that it is semi-auto and because the recoilfade is higher relative to the recoil number.

[Kurt M.]

Who knows why they chose what they did, they are mainly Mattock values, with the recoil changed.

 

As an aside, Mattock also should theoretically exhibit the same issue, but it is probably masked by the fact that it is semi-auto and because the recoilfade is higher relative to the recoil number.

 

Having in mind that half the Harrier stats are wrongly displayed, I'd say Bioware was kind in a hurry when they introduced that weapon...

 

Oh well, it's not like they're gonna fix it...(maybe they'll even make those stats canon if it reappears in ME4...*coughcoughConradVerner..cough*.

[Terminator Force]

Wow. I just reached capn233's accuracy video post! ("I'm from Canada, and people say I'm a little slow, eh?" XD) And I'm sure glad I brought this topic up now! Cause I just love seeing stuff like that!

 

Do a Lancer VS Harrier now, capn233!! Do a Lancer VS Harrier, capn233!!! Cause they so seem the same to me. And I must know for more certain, regardless of which gun I prefer more. Facts are facts and I always want to know for sure.

[Terminator Force]

- The targeting bloom means nothing. Go shoot an executioner and see how close the bloom is to what the actual accuracy is.

- The cover recoil is glitched on the Harrier. Would you prefer that they be switched? Don't even bother bringing it up.

 

I thought that's what I meant, that I prefer it to not be glitched? If it didn't come out that way, well now you know.

[bondiboy]

Wow. I just reached capn233's accuracy video post! ("I'm from Canada, and people say I'm a little slow, eh?" XD) And I'm sure glad I brought this topic up now! Cause I just love seeing stuff like that!

 

Do a Lancer VS Harrier now, capn233!! Do a Lancer VS Harrier, capn233!!! Cause they so seem the same to me. And I must know for more certain, regardless of which gun I prefer more. Facts are facts and I always want to know for sure.

 

 

Without the Turian and out of cover

[capn233]

Am past my limit for testing vids for one day.  You'll just have to take my word for it that Harrier has better accuracy than the Lancer in and out of cover.  It recoils less than the Lancer out of cover.

[Malanek]

Was this with or without Stability bonus?  If it wasn't you made sure not to move the mouse left or right?

 

Here is the easy version of the test with a 100% stab turian.

 

 

If anything, I might concede that the accuracy is basically the same.  But that still doesn't give CSMG a greater effective range than Lancer unless you are just talking fighting stability.  And in that case it is still hyperbole to claim that there is such a disparate difference in range if you actually use them back to back, and especially considering Lancer does more damage to mooks to begin with.

Interesting. I wasn't aware the Lancer was anywhere near as accurate as the CSMG. I think its mainly to do with targeting reticule appearing so much more accurate on the CSMG.

 

I still prefer the CSMG though.

[me0120]

Interesting. I wasn't aware the Lancer was anywhere near as accurate as the CSMG. I think its mainly to do with targeting reticule appearing so much more accurate on the CSMG.

 

I think you nailed it. 

[Geek]

I don't think the lancer is anything really that special, but I like it lots more than the csmg.

[capn233]

Interesting. I wasn't aware the Lancer was anywhere near as accurate as the CSMG. I think its mainly to do with targeting reticule appearing so much more accurate on the CSMG.

 

I still prefer the CSMG though.

 

Yeah.  The fact that the recoil is pretty high probably makes it seem like the spread is worse than it is.

[Red Panda]

So, without recoil, the CSMG is pointless?

[capn233]

So, without recoil, the CSMG is pointless?

 

CSMG is good for its weight range, so no it is not pointless.

[me0120]

CSMG is good for its weight range, so no it is not pointless.

 

It also doesn't have a recharge delay, unlike all others.