309 réponses à ce sujet

[Terminator Force]

Are you ****** kidding me? I go to the ammo box when everything is dead on my way to the next unfortunate spawn that has derped it's way into my proximity. 

 

I'm just laughing at this point because I'm not sure this is real discussion and not a troll topic. The Lancer is so great that we have all these speedruns that point to it's TTK efficency. Wait????

 

No need to get too excited about it. And no, it's not always like that. Gold and Plat ain't always filled with only simple mooks. You've got bigger fish, on host Phantom damage reduction, etc.

 

However, if you are using top consumables and some cheese (ie. Bat Sol with Flame On ammo/nades cheese), then yes I can see that happening much more often (but then the Lancer should do just as fine enough too). Cause it's like I said before, the Harrier is either really good, or really poor/average. Depending on if you go all the way setting up, or say level one consumables on Batarian Vanguard. Which I did a few days ago and I could believe how long lvl.4 Harrier was taking to take down one freaking last enemy Pretorian by myself (forget if it was possessed or not? And I'm pretty sure this was on Silver too). It was not stop ring around the rosey on top of Thesia stage + ammo stops/clips placks? So yeah. You either cheese it or not. Most do, sadly. Which I wouldn't mind for Platinum, but I think it's too much for Gold (but this is going into another topic. One which I discussed already).

 

 

 

 

 

And let me add this. Even if you're on the bandwagon that don't think the Lancer is better then the Harrier. No way should you assume it's very far behind.

[Kislitsin]

If I throw something together with Lancer on Human Soldier, it won't be until the evening here.

 

Also defense multipliers aren't base weapon damage modifiers.  The distinction is that a base weapon damage modifier would increase (or decrease) ammo damage, whereas the defense multipliers do not.

I was dead sure that Typhoon modifiers increased ammo damage according to peddro's tests. Can be wrong here though.

[NuclearTech76]

No need to get too excited about it. And no, it's not always like that. Gold and Plat ain't always filled with only simple mooks. You've got bigger fish, on host Phantom damage reduction, etc.

 

However, if you are using top consumables and some cheese (ie. Bat Sol with Flame On ammo/nades cheese), then yes I can see that happening much more often (but then the Lancer should do just as fine enough too). Cause it's like I said before, the Harrier is either really good, or really poor/average. Depending on if you go all the way setting up, or say level one consumables on Batarian Vanguard. Which I did a few days ago and I could believe how long lvl.4 Harrier was taking to take down one freaking last enemy Pretorian by myself (forget if it was possessed or not? And I'm pretty sure this was on Silver too). It was not stop ring around the rosey on top of Thesia stage + ammo stops/clips placks? So yeah. You either cheese it or not. Most do, sadly. Which I wouldn't mind for Platinum, but I think it's too much for Gold (but this is going into another topic. One which I discussed already).

 

 

 

 

 

And let me add this. Even if you're on the bandwagon that don't think the Lancer is better then the Harrier. No way should you assume it's very far behind.

What setup are you running on your Harrier?

 

The thing is again there is no situation versus any enemy type where the TTK favors the Lancer. Harrier is better at output and accuracy to put that output in the hitbox where it can do the most damage IE the head, small section of Atlas canopy, etc. The Harrier can do that at range from across most maps. Maybe you can point out map dependent ammo constraints as a point but the Harrier is still close if not superior there as well. 

 

Also still waiting on those speedruns with the Lancer that show it's superiority on Gold and Platinum which do not exist. You can find several examples of the Harrier being used on host, off host, solo, duo, trio, full team etc. 

[capn233]

^^To Kislitsin

 

You might be thinking of the hot damage multiplier.

[Kislitsin]

^^To Kislitsin

 

You might be thinking of the hot damage multiplier.

Oh, thanks.

That means broophoon deals 50% ammo damage (AP IV) of it's hot base to the armor, not 75%... still amazing gun. Biower plz.

[q5tyhj]

Is there a table showing a list of weapons and their attributes (hipfire penalty, armor negation, etc.)?

 

I think Cyonan's spreadsheet has that info-

 

http://forum.bioware...alance-changes/

[Terminator Force]

Yeah, I too very eagerly await this video.

 

 

What setup are you running on your Harrier?

 

The thing is again there is no situation versus any enemy type where the TTK favors the Lancer. Harrier is better at output and accuracy to put that output in the hitbox where it can do the most damage IE the head, small section of Atlas canopy, etc. The Harrier can do that at range from across most maps. Maybe you can point out map dependent ammo constraints as a point but the Harrier is still close if not superior there as well. 

 

Also still waiting on those speedruns with the Lancer that show it's superiority on Gold and Platinum which do not exist. You can find several examples of the Harrier being used on host, off host, solo, duo, trio, full team etc. 

 

Well to put it simply, the Harrier you want to set up for top/maximum damage setup. This is the only way to truly solve it's ammo issues, thus make it the cheese weapon it's supposed to be. While with the Lancer, you can go either way. Top of the line consumables & setup or not. Everything works, and on everybody too. While running a sub par setup for the Harrier will make you do a double look at the gun and say "Huh? Did I somehow turn the full auto off or something?"

 

 

 

Man, and all this is coming from a guy who has them both at level 4.  .... How much more money do I need until the big spending spree now?... 4 mil?!! HA HA!! I'm almost there. 

[Sket]

OP, what do you mean by "cheese" setup for the Harrier?

[Computron2000]

Er, yeah. The Lancer lays massive dps in one clip, while the Harrier does some more via multiple clips, but then has to go get ammo while the Lancer does it again. I see this as nothing but a massive advantage over the Harrier.

 

And the Harrier being a gun where making every bullet count means so much, not having pinpoint stability in hard cover is a serious issue. Even with the Eagle just a few games now I've been getting into hard cover an insane amount of times for making every bullet count in the right places more often (the London map yesterday against Geth being the most).

 

 

Yeah, I too very eagerly await this video.

 

 

 

Well to put it simply, the Harrier you want to set up for top/maximum damage setup. This is the only way to truly solve it's ammo issues, thus make it the cheese weapon it's supposed to be. While with the Lancer, you can go either way. Top of the line consumables & setup or not. Everything works, and on everybody too. While running a sub par setup for the Harrier will make you do a double look at the gun and say "Huh? Did I somehow turn the full auto off or something?"

 

 

 

Man, and all this is coming from a guy who has them both at level 4.   .... How much more money do I need until the big spending spree now?... 4 mil?!! HA HA!! I'm almost there.  

 

 

6 months down the road, the bolded portion will seem laughable

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

 

 

 

 

6 months down the road, the bolded portion will seem laughable

 

 

And 48 hours from now, the amount of angst displayed in this thread will seem laughable.

 

Seeing the socratic method come up against the platonic approach is either amusing or just weird.

[NuclearTech76]

Yeah, I too very eagerly await this video.

 

 

 

Well to put it simply, the Harrier you want to set up for top/maximum damage setup. This is the only way to truly solve it's ammo issues, thus make it the cheese weapon it's supposed to be. While with the Lancer, you can go either way. Top of the line consumables & setup or not. Everything works, and on everybody too. While running a sub par setup for the Harrier will make you do a double look at the gun and say "Huh? Did I somehow turn the full auto off or something?"

 

 

 

Man, and all this is coming from a guy who has them both at level 4.  .... How much more money do I need until the big spending spree now?... 4 mil?!! HA HA!! I'm almost there. 

Here's the thing, when I put on the Harrier, it is cheese in and of itself. Incendiary rounds or whatever you're thinking isn't going to play a factor most of the time. Straight AP rounds with a damage barrel and clip is going to almost always be my setup because I can dispatch mooks in a couple of bursts or take down an Atlas with multiple hit bug quickly with that piercing. Stacking dots etc would be with a pellet based weapon or Reegar if I wanted to use dot to cheese.

[NuclearTech76]

And 48 hours from now, the amount of angst displayed in this thread will seem laughable.

 

Seeing the socratic method come up against the platonic approach is either amusing or just weird.

IDK that I give a **** enough to muster up any angst anymore. The most I can contribute is the truth followed up with moderately entertaining one liners.

[Terminator Force]

OP, what do you mean by "cheese" setup for the Harrier?

 

Think that came to mind from every proper Cerberus Harrier player I've seen? When they break out this gun, they're always set for maximum take no prisoners/ultimate cheese. While with the Lancer, even if you go that route, I don't think would seem as cheesy? Even though I think it`s the better AR. Yes, I`m contradicting myself, I know.

 

And I`m not one to stick with a thought that`s wrong and still defend it because that was the side I choose first. If I do however see that the Harrier is the better weapon, then I will come clean and say it. But from all I know so far, seen, and tried with both of them at level 4 on Gold, I`m still on the Lancer side. And ultimately I do want them both at lvl.10 + be playing both extensively at that level + me getting a heck of a lot better at the game, before I`ll be full satisfied & be much more certain. But hey, lots more experienced players than me here with much more playtime in too. Being so curious as I am, I just want to know as much as possible right now + I always love to read what the better players have to say on matters like this.

[me0120]

I'm looking forward to watching your video... in case you decide to make it public.

 

 

It's public now. I accidentally changed another video public instead of this one.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

IDK that I give a **** enough to muster up any angst anymore. The most I can contribute is the truth followed up with moderately entertaining one liners.

 

And if we have entertaining one liners, we have no need of the truth.

[oceandrive]

I think Cyonan's spreadsheet has that info-

http://forum.bioware...alance-changes/

Thanks Q.

[Miniditka77]

People don't love the Revenant because it kills stuff. They love it because it sounds (and shakes) like a proper LMG.

 

It's not actually too bad on a Tsol with barrage upgrade and cryo or incendiary ammo, especially if your enemies are bunched up (marauders on wave 8) or too big to miss...brutes and ravagers for example. But that's OT.

 

The store flatly refuses to give me the Lancer or the CSMG (or the Paladin or Typhoon) so I have no opinion on those.

 

Sounding and feeling like a LMG is fine, but it should also hit like a LMG.  In ME2, it did.  In ME3, it's like "Poor accuracy, bad recoil, lowers my movement speed... all this and average damage too!  Sign me up!"

[capn233]

Sounding and feeling like a LMG is fine, but it should also hit like a LMG.  In ME2, it did.  In ME3, it's like "Poor accuracy, bad recoil, lowers my movement speed... all this and average damage too!  Sign me up!"

 

The Hurricane is basically the new Revenant.

[Miniditka77]

I don't like how it takes 2 headshots or 3 other shots to kill shielded mooks. You know what other gun does the same thing? The Valiant.. but the Valiant is lighter, has better mods, no reticle bloom or recoil, and a much faster reload. Saber sounds MUCH cooler and doesn't have a hipfire penalty, which is a big deal.. but they both do the same job IMO.. and I feel the Valiant does it better.

 

The Paladin is the gun that I really think makes the Saber obsolete on non-accuracy boosting classes.  With the Heavy Barrel, it does almost exactly the same damage per shot as the Saber with the Extended Barrel.  It also weighs a lot less, is probably more accurate, has very quick accuracy recovery while firing out of cover, and reloads pretty quickly.  Really, the only downside is the smaller mag size, which is almost compensated for by the quick reloading.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

Sounding and feeling like a LMG is fine, but it should also hit like a LMG.  In ME2, it did.  In ME3, it's like "Poor accuracy, bad recoil, lowers my movement speed... all this and average damage too!  Sign me up!"

Oh, I quite agree, but then the assault rifles in ME3 are all pretty disappointing, one has to find fun where one can. 

[Kurt M.]

Oh, I quite agree, but then the assault rifles in ME3 are all pretty disappointing, one has to find fun where one can. 

 

Only the Typhoon. I'm stuck with it for the Earth banner, and I swear...¬¬....by the time I kill some guy, I could have killed 3 or 4 with the Harrier.

 

I absolutely hate it.

[Kislitsin]

Only the Typhoon. I'm stuck with it for the Earth banner, and I swear...¬¬....by the time I kill some guy, I could have killed 3 or 4 with the Harrier.

I absolutely hate it.

Go away, pug.

[NuclearTech76]

Think that came to mind from every proper Cerberus Harrier player I've seen? When they break out this gun, they're always set for maximum take no prisoners/ultimate cheese. While with the Lancer, even if you go that route, I don't think would seem as cheesy? Even though I think it`s the better AR. Yes, I`m contradicting myself, I know.

 

And I`m not one to stick with a thought that`s wrong and still defend it because that was the side I choose first. If I do however see that the Harrier is the better weapon, then I will come clean and say it. But from all I know so far, seen, and tried with both of them at level 4 on Gold, I`m still on the Lancer side. And ultimately I do want them both at lvl.10 + be playing both extensively at that level + me getting a heck of a lot better at the game, before I`ll be full satisfied & be much more certain. But hey, lots more experienced players than me here with much more playtime in too. Being so curious as I am, I just want to know as much as possible right now + I always love to read what the better players have to say on matters like this.

I mean it's what's most effective to you as a player BUT on paper and in practice most players that are good at the game will tell you the Harrier is better. If I'm going for clearance time on a team game or solo I have a few choices for weapons I would use and the Harrier is most certainly on that list, the Lancer is not. 

[Kurt M.]

Go away, pug.

 

Are you so devoid of self-esteem that you react that way if I criticise your (probably) favourite gun?

 

IMO, the Typhoon is made for people with 0 aim for headshots. Same for the Spitfire.

[Kislitsin]

IMO, the Typhoon is made for people with 0 aim for headshots. Same for the Spitfire.

k

inb4 Annomander

Edit: Though I think I myself can find somewhere on my PC ~25min NR cerb gold solo w brophoon, when I failed to HS so much. So scrub.

L2SwitchTargets.