709 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

Why does there need to be a lore explanation for putting something other than white.

I know right? If ___ years in the future we decided to take the population of one North American city on our fancy spaceships and colonize another world, that new population would contain multiple races. Their descendants wouldn't be asking for explanations as to why not everyone looked the same, it would just be how humans are. With a video game, especially a fantasy video game the creators can do whatever they like. I don't feel the need for them to create an entire geographic and evolutionary history for humans on Thedas just for people who don't look white to be included. Human ethnicity isn't even an issue in Thedas so why does it require an explanation for so many?

[Afro_Explosion]

Its an issue for these people because asking for equal representation is political correctness run amuck. " Guys race doesn't matter thats why everyone should be white".

[Afro_Explosion]

Im not quoting anyone, i am paraphrasing the people who try to stop diversity.

[The Night Haunter]

Im not quoting anyone, i am paraphrasing the people who try to stop diversity.

Actually what you're doing is trying to start an arguement, no-one I've seen has been trying to stop diversity. The real world contains constraints on ethnicities. If a native american showed up in England in 1250 people would have some questions.

 

The reason white doesn't need an explanation is because Bioware themselves made white the default, which makes sense as Thedas is based loosely off medieval Europe. I'm all for adding ethnically diverse characters, but please make them make sense with the universe Bioware has established.

 

I know right? If ___ years in the future we decided to take the population of one North American city on our fancy spaceships and colonize another world, that new population would contain multiple races. Their descendants wouldn't be asking for explanations as to why not everyone looked the same, it would just be how humans are. With a video game, especially a fantasy video game the creators can do whatever they like. I don't feel the need for them to create an entire geographic and evolutionary history for humans on Thedas just for people who don't look white to be included. Human ethnicity isn't even an issue in Thedas so why does it require an explanation for so many?

...

Because Thedas wasn't colonized from a spaceship (I very sincerely hope Bioware never, ever goes down that route. Far too many jrpgs do that left, right and center)

 

It requires an explanation because we find adding realistic aspects keeps us immersed in the world. If a cat-person suddenly appeared, no explanation given, they were just there, and no-one batted an eye that would be immersion breaking (every time I watched dbz as a kid those animal people always jarred with everything else, even with all the space races stuff). In a modern world we don't need excuses for why people of different ethnicities live in different locales, but Thedas isn't a reflection of the modern world by any stretch of the imagination. And human ethnicity is indeed an issue in Thedas, but it is mostly based on nationality rather than skin tone (historically accurate since most of Europe was the same general white skin tone, so most 'racism' was more along the lines of french hating germans, etc). The Orliasans look down on everyone else, as do the Tevinters. Insults like 'Dog Lords' wouldn't exist in the universe if ethnicity wasn't an issue. 

[9TailsFox]

Actually what you're doing is trying to start an arguement, no-one I've seen has been trying to stop diversity. The real world contains constraints on ethnicities. If a native american showed up in England in 1250 people would have some questions.

 

The reason white doesn't need an explanation is because Bioware themselves made white the default, which makes sense as Thedas is based loosely off medieval Europe. I'm all for adding ethnically diverse characters, but please make them make sense with the universe Bioware has established.

 

...

Because Thedas wasn't colonized from a spaceship (I very sincerely hope Bioware never, ever goes down that route. Far too many jrpgs do that left, right and center)

 

It requires an explanation because we find adding realistic aspects keeps us immersed in the world. If a cat-person suddenly appeared, no explanation given, they were just there, and no-one batted an eye that would be immersion breaking (every time I watched dbz as a kid those animal people always jarred with everything else, even with all the space races stuff). In a modern world we don't need excuses for why people of different ethnicities live in different locales, but Thedas isn't a reflection of the modern world by any stretch of the imagination. And human ethnicity is indeed an issue in Thedas, but it is mostly based on nationality rather than skin tone (historically accurate since most of Europe was the same general white skin tone, so most 'racism' was more along the lines of french hating germans, etc). The Orliasans look down on everyone else, as do the Tevinters. Insults like 'Dog Lords' wouldn't exist in the universe if ethnicity wasn't an issue. 

Thanks for remanding me DBZ. Bulma surprised Goku have tail. Earth president is dog.

[javeart]

 

It requires an explanation because we find adding realistic aspects keeps us immersed in the world. If a cat-person suddenly appeared, no explanation given, they were just there, and no-one batted an eye that would be immersion breaking (every time I watched dbz as a kid those animal people always jarred with everything else, even with all the space races stuff). In a modern world we don't need excuses for why people of different ethnicities live in different locales, but Thedas isn't a reflection of the modern world by any stretch of the imagination. And human ethnicity is indeed an issue in Thedas, but it is mostly based on nationality rather than skin tone (historically accurate since most of Europe was the same general white skin tone, so most 'racism' was more along the lines of french hating germans, etc). The Orliasans look down on everyone else, as do the Tevinters. Insults like 'Dog Lords' wouldn't exist in the universe if ethnicity wasn't an issue. 

 

Thedas already reflects modern world values when it comes to sexuality and gender.

 

And still don't see the point in comparisons with qunaris, blue-people and now cat-persons too.

[AkiKishi]

 

...Thedas wasn't colonized from a spaceship (I very sincerely hope Bioware never, ever goes down that route. Far too many jrpgs do that left, right and center)

 

 

 

One of the best WTF moments in gaming was Might and Magic. 

[Nefla]

Actually what you're doing is trying to start an arguement, no-one I've seen has been trying to stop diversity. The real world contains constraints on ethnicities. If a native american showed up in England in 1250 people would have some questions.
 
The reason white doesn't need an explanation is because Bioware themselves made white the default, which makes sense as Thedas is based loosely off medieval Europe. I'm all for adding ethnically diverse characters, but please make them make sense with the universe Bioware has established.
 

...
Because Thedas wasn't colonized from a spaceship (I very sincerely hope Bioware never, ever goes down that route. Far too many jrpgs do that left, right and center)
 
It requires an explanation because we find adding realistic aspects keeps us immersed in the world. If a cat-person suddenly appeared, no explanation given, they were just there, and no-one batted an eye that would be immersion breaking (every time I watched dbz as a kid those animal people always jarred with everything else, even with all the space races stuff). In a modern world we don't need excuses for why people of different ethnicities live in different locales, but Thedas isn't a reflection of the modern world by any stretch of the imagination. And human ethnicity is indeed an issue in Thedas, but it is mostly based on nationality rather than skin tone (historically accurate since most of Europe was the same general white skin tone, so most 'racism' was more along the lines of french hating germans, etc). The Orliasans look down on everyone else, as do the Tevinters. Insults like 'Dog Lords' wouldn't exist in the universe if ethnicity wasn't an issue.

You're right, Thedas wasn't colonized by humans in spaceships, it was colonized by humans in regular ships who came from elsewhere as the Qunari did later.(what do you think they did, said "sorry guys, only white people on this trip!") Human race/ethnicity is NOT important in Thedas. Nation of origin is, but skin color and facial structure are not even noted. A white Orlesian and a black Orlesian would look down on someone from Ferelden together because of their culture, not their race. Since human race is never mentioned and no human is praised or berated for their race, an no one seems to even notice physical differences between humans, having a greater variety of human ethnicity would not change anything in the lore or the way people act. A "cat person" suddenly being introduced would be a big deal because it has no basis in reality, it would be a different species like elves and dwarves, while Asians are a different flavor of humans which already exist in the world.

[Han Shot First]

Its an issue for these people because asking for equal representation is political correctness run amuck. " Guys race doesn't matter thats why everyone should be white".

 

Ugh...no.

 

I'd actually like to see a more diverse cast of characters, with people who look Asian, Middle-Eastern, African, ect., ect. 

 

That being said, I'd also rather have the population history of Thedas make some sense. I think Thedas would benefit from mirroring our own.

 

Also. its just more interesting. If in DA:4 we're going to have a companion with an Asian appearance for example, it would be far more interesting to have that character be a Fex or from some other culture beyond Par Vollen, than to have him be an Orlesian who is completely identical to any other Orlesian character except for appearance. I'd rather have an Asian companion who was a Mongol analogue than an Asian companion who other than appearance, is a medieval Frenchman.

[tmp7704]

The reason white doesn't need an explanation is because Bioware themselves made white the default, which makes sense as Thedas is based loosely off medieval Europe. I'm all for adding ethnically diverse characters, but please make them make sense with the universe Bioware has established.

"Arbitrary decision makes sense because it's a result of another arbitrary decision."

But then can you explain why it makes sense to base Thedas loosely off medieval Europe except only in certain narrow areas like "default = white" while completely ignoring and/or overriding it in other areas? Especially when the game's own lore suggests that these Thedas people would make considerably more sense not being white, given they are probably relatively recent migrants from tropical areas of their planet?

[Han Shot First]

 Especially when the game's own lore suggests that these Thedas people would make considerably more sense not being white, given they are probably relatively recent migrants from tropical areas of their planet?

 

Maybe those areas weren't always tropical. Regions on our own planet/history have gone through climate shifts. Perhaps at the time the light skinned inhabitants of Thedas were living beyond Par Vollen, the world was in an Ice Age.

[tmp7704]

Maybe those areas weren't always tropical. Regions on our own planet/history have gone through climate shifts. Perhaps at the time the light skinned inhabitants of Thedas were living beyond Par Vollen, the world was in an Ice Age.

But surviving the Ice Age doesn't necessarily result in remaining population turning white.

[MattH]

I'd love a culture to come about in DA based on ancient Mongolia or Tibet

[Han Shot First]

But surviving the Ice Age doesn't necessarily result in remaining population turning white.

 

Who said anything about all people turning white?

 

Lets say beyond Par Vollen you have an entire continent with light skinned humans in the far north where there is less UV light, and darker skinned humans the farther south you go. As the ice sheets advance south during the Ice Age, these light skinned humans are pushed further and further south. Eventually some of them, either before or after the glaciers have retreated, continue migrating on to Par Vollen and then to Thedas. Some of the original dark skinned inhabitants of the southern regions of that continent cross over to Thedas as well. The light skinned humans, being the most greatly affected by climate change, cross over in greater numbers and populate most of Thedas. Some of the darker skinned humans that cross over settle in what later becomes Rivain, and mix with one or more of the lighter skinned tribes to eventually form the modern Rivaini, who can range from 'tan to ebony.' One or more of the darker skinned tribes continues migrating south through Thedas. and as the southern glaciers retreat, settles in the Korcari Wilds, where they also mix with ligher skinned tribes to become the Chasind.

 

Meanwhile in the northern continent most of the lighter skinned tribes have departed for Thedas, and those that remain in the north are over the centuries gradually assimilated by the larger numbers of darker skinned peoples. The ice sheets also completely retreat as the Ice Age ends and the darker skinned peoples migrate north and repopulate the regions that had once been covered by glaciers. As the Ice Age ends the climate for that northern continent also gradually becomes tropical.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'd love a culture to come about in DA based on ancient Mongolia or Tibet

 

I would as well, i'd be a great addition to the setting and offer a whole new host of people to learn about.

 

Shame people would rather have odd eye shaped taned people with no identity of their own. Maybe someday they can move on and we can get some new cultures and nations going to have these folks included.

[In Exile]

Who said anything about all people turning white?

 

Lets say beyond Par Vollen you have an entire continent with light skinned humans in the far north where there is less UV light, and darker skinned humans the farther south you go. As the ice sheets advance south during the Ice Age, these light skinned humans are pushed further and further south. Eventually some of them, either before or after the glaciers have retreated, continue migrating on to Par Vollen and then to Thedas. Some of the original dark skinned inhabitants of the southern regions of that continent cross over to Thedas as well. The light skinned humans, being the most greatly affected by climate change, cross over in greater numbers and populate most of Thedas. Some of the darker skinned humans that cross over settle in what later becomes Rivain, and mix with one or more of the lighter skinned tribes to eventually form the modern Rivaini, who can range from 'tan to ebony.' One or more of the darker skinned tribes continues migrating south through Thedas. and as the southern glaciers retreat, settles in the Korcari Wilds, where they also mix with ligher skinned tribes to become the Chasind.

 

Meanwhile in the northern continent most of the lighter skinned tribes have departed for Thedas, and those that remain in the north are over the centuries gradually assimilated by the larger numbers of darker skinned peoples. The ice sheets also completely retreat as the Ice Age ends and the darker skinned peoples migrate north and repopulate the regions that had once been covered by glaciers. As the Ice Age ends the climate for that northern continent also gradually becomes tropical.

 

How is this bizzare theory crafting any better than just having a cosmopolitan society of humans to start with?

[Mockingword]

I would as well, i'd be a great addition to the setting and offer a whole new host of people to learn about.

 

Shame people would rather have odd eye shaped taned people with no identity of their own. Maybe someday they can move on and we can get some new cultures and nations going to have these folks included.

Yes, it's more important for fantasy people to have an "identity" than it is for real people to be represented in media.

[addiction21]

Yes, it's more important for fantasy people to have an "identity" than it is for real people to be represented in media.

 

Real people have a "identity" and it consists of more then the color of their skin and hair, the shape of their eyes, or facial features.

 

And that's what I see here. Some people asking that they should be given more consideration then tossing them in the game for diversity for the sake of diversity.

[Nefla]

I would as well, i'd be a great addition to the setting and offer a whole new host of people to learn about.

Shame people would rather have odd eye shaped taned people with no identity of their own. Maybe someday they can move on and we can get some new cultures and nations going to have these folks included.

Why do Asian looking people have to have a gimmick? Why can't they be normal people like everyone else? Maybe Asians are tired of being portrayed as samurai, geisha, karate experts, etc...when other races can just be a character. Why do they have to be separate, "others," why can't they be Templars and priests and kings and peasants and heroes? Would people prefer Vivienne people prefer Vivienne if she was dressed in tiger skins and had a bone through her nose? It would be a "different culture."

[DaySeeker]

Why do Asian looking people have to have a gimmick? Why can't they be normal people like everyone else? Maybe Asians are tired of being portrayed as samurai, geisha, karate experts, etc...when other races can just be a character. Why do they have to be separate, "others," why can't they be Templars and priests and kings and peasants and heroes? Would people prefer Vivienne people prefer Vivienne if she was dressed in tiger skins and had a bone through her nose? It would be a "different culture."

Your arguments are purposefully obtuse and often attempts to demonize anyone who disagrees with you.  

 

Even fantasy worlds have rules and structure, otherwise it is chaos where anything can happen and no one cares or can connect to it.  You may believe throwing in asians is no big deal and that they require no culture of their own despite the fact the other races in Thedas have gotten that treatment and that there have been no asian characters yet.  You then take anyone disagreeing to be some kind of racist trying to keep the asians down and create false arguments that in no way meet the opposing side.  On top of this the point is moot because Biowrae representatives have already weighed in and disagree with you.  This thread is full of people looking to be angry at people they have no reason to be angry with and demonizing those who disagree.  Gross.

[AkiKishi]

Why do Asian looking people have to have a gimmick? Why can't they be normal people like everyone else? Maybe Asians are tired of being portrayed as samurai, geisha, karate experts, etc...when other races can just be a character. Why do they have to be separate, "others," why can't they be Templars and priests and kings and peasants and heroes? Would people prefer Vivienne people prefer Vivienne if she was dressed in tiger skins and had a bone through her nose? It would be a "different culture."

 

Japan is just a part of it. They make their own games and they don't seem to have a problem with those types. Asia is pretty big , Japan is just kind of obvious,China to a lesser extent too.

 

Until today I was under the impression Vivienne was Scribbles.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why do Asian looking people have to have a gimmick? Why can't they be normal people like everyone else? Maybe Asians are tired of being portrayed as samurai, geisha, karate experts, etc...when other races can just be a character. Why do they have to be separate, "others," why can't they be Templars and priests and kings and peasants and heroes? Would people prefer Vivienne people prefer Vivienne if she was dressed in tiger skins and had a bone through her nose? It would be a "different culture."

You're a very funny sort, ya know that? All your pomposity about people being racist when the only one demanding exclusive treatment for "white" folkd and advocating asians be shortchanged in their inclusion in the game seems to be you folks.

[Ryzaki]

I really really don't get what's the big deal about someone wanting more Asian looking people in Thedas. It's nice to see people that look like you in the media that aren't caricatures, villians or just there for the sunday afternoon special.

 

This is in general not to anyone specific.

[AkiKishi]

Well I can't claim I've met everyone in Japan. But no one has ever said "you know I really want my culture to be badly represented in Dragon Age".