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[Han Shot First]

 

 

That still doesn't stop asian looking Fereldans from being possible however. The countries clearly have mixed and the Chasind (who live in the cold forests no?) are rather dark.

 

 

 

"colder part of the planet" but fair enough.

 

Oh, I do agree with that.

 

Speaking of the Chasind, they are apparently a large tribal confederation. I wouldn't have an issue with some of those Chasind in the colder regions of the wilds turning out to be inspired by Siberians, or whomever. Likewise if some guy in rebuilt Lothering had similar features I wouldn't have an issue, because it borders the Korcari Wilds.

 

I'm just in favor of there being some rhyme and reason to Thedas' demographics.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lol, no, word of Gaider is that the "recessiveness" of elven traits relative to human ones is because of magic.
 
There's no evidence that genetics are even a thing in Thedas.

Disprove my example of the dwarves.
Disprove my example of magic.

And as an added bonus, disprove fereldens breeding mabari to be smart. Because selective breeding is evolution.

I relent on the elven example, now go on and get to work.

[Mockingword]

You can't be serious.

Bows can fire arrows in arcs, people fall downwards towards the planets center of mass, and weight exists.

How can you sit there and type such a stupid statement with any sort of self-dignity?

There's no proof that any of those things are the result of gravity.

 

There's no evidence that the scientific laws of Thedas are in any way similar to our own, and we know for a fact that many of them are completely different.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I call for a motion to report mockingwood for trolling and derailing the thread with troll physics.

All in favor?

[9TailsFox]

So what? How does this prove that gravity exists?

 

"Gravity makes things fall to the ground. Therefore, if a fantasy object falls to the fantasy ground in a fantasy world, it must be due to the real-life scientific principle of gravity."

 

Nope. Sorry.

Ok then.

[Mockingword]

Disprove my example of the dwarves.
Disprove my example of magic.

And as an added bonus, disprove fereldens breeding mabari to be smart. Because selective breeding is evolution.

I relent on the elven example, now go on and get to work.

I don't have to disprove anything. None of that is proof that genetics exist.

 

Show me Thedosian DNA, then we'll talk.

[Ryzaki]

Oh, I do agree with that.

 

Speaking of the Chasind, they are apparently a large tribal confederation. I wouldn't have an issue with some of those Chasind in the colder regions of the wilds turning out to be inspired by Siberians, or whomever. Likewise if some guy in rebuilt Lothering had similar features I wouldn't have an issue, because it borders the Korcari Wilds.

 

I'm just in favor of there being some rhyme and reason to Thedas' demographics.

 

My edit was too late apparently. Morrigan is described as Chasind looking. She's pale. The other Chasind we meet are clearly darker. And it's not simply her being in the wilds because the Chasind we see in Lothering are the ones that are much darker. I'm pretty sure there is expected variation among skin tones and features in countries and groups.

 

Meh the rhyme and reason could easily be they were multiple groups when they came over and some went some way, some went another way, and others mixed. I don't see why we need to go "the dark people come from X country and any light person from there is clearly a foreigner, the light people come from Y and same"

 

It's already shown we have dark skinned families in Kirkwall nobility and in Fereldan itself. Trying to backpedal from that and go but they're not REALLY from Fereldan would strike me as silly.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I call for a motion to report mockingwood for trolling and derailing the thread with troll physics.

All in favor?

First report sent.

[Mockingword]

Good luck with that.

[ZombieOberyn]

So how does this math work? I must have missed class that day.
Gravity doesn't exist in Thedas = There must be more asians in DA3 or racism

[Mockingword]

So how does this math work? I must have missed class that day.
Gravity doesn't exist in Thedas = There must be more asians in DA3 or racism

The class on Thedosian Math? Probably, man.

 

I never said that gravity doesn't exist in Thedas. I'm merely asking other people to prove their claims that it does.

 

And the exclusion of Asian characters from Thedas will be racist regardless of whether or not gravity exists. It will be racist no matter what excuse you come up with, because what none of you seem to understand about fantasy is that it is not even remotely constrained by "real world" anything, and the only reason Asian-looking people are absent from Thedas is because the creators of Dragon Age want it that way.

[Han Shot First]

Prove that gravity exists in Thedas.

 

Lets just move on since you missed the point. Ignore gravity for a moment.

 

Here are some other elements from the real world that exist in the DA setting:

 

Humans

Dogs

Oceans

Rivers

Rain

Snow

Grass

Trees

Iron

Copper

Gold

Silver

Birds

Wolves

Bears

A sun

A moon

Swords

Axes

 

Ect., Ect, Ect.

 

There has never been a fantasy universe ever created that did not closely resemble our own. Its all based on our own human experiences. Even many things that exist only in fantasy universes are actually inspired by things from our own world. Elves and dwarves are near identical to humans. Unicorns are just horned horses. Dragon myths originated with ancient humans finding dinosaur bones. Hence dragons and magic don't really work as an argument against elements that are realistic or resemble our own world.

[Mockingword]

Lets just move on since you missed the point. Ignore gravity for a moment.

 

Here are some other elements from the real world that exist in the DA setting:

 

Humans

Dogs

Oceans

Rivers

Rain

Snow

Grass

Trees

Iron

Copper

Gold

Silver

Birds

Wolves

Bears

A sun

A moon

Swords

Axes

 

Ect., Ect, Ect.

Prove that the Thedosian conception of humans is the same as the Earth conception of Humans.

 

Prove that the Thedosian conception of dogs is the same as the Earth conception of dogs.

 

Etc, etc.

 

 

There has never been a fantasy universe ever created that did not closely resemble our own. Its all based on our own human experiences. Hence dragons and magic don't really work as an argument against elements that are realistic or resemble our own world.

What does any of this have to do with anything? What human experiences is Dragon Age based on?

 

How is this an argument for the exclusion of certain ethnicities from an entire world?

 

I don't think you read enough fantasy.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Why do you think han doesn't read enough fantasy? Is it because hand waving isn't good enough for an explanation to people?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So let's pose a hypothetical scenario.

 

Let's say that a while ago there was some asian-equivalent humans in the Dragon Age world who landed on Thedas. They settled an area, and over the generations they learned the languages and cultures of Thedas and yet their physical features remained. So really no need to delve into the culture of their ancestors because they are Thedasian, just with the features of their homeland.

 

Is this acceptable by both parties? 

[Mockingword]

Why do you think han doesn't read enough fantasy? Is it because hand waving isn't good enough for an explanation to people?

Because he believes fantasy has to be a certain way.

[Han Shot First]

 

 

What does any of this have to do with anything? What human experiences is Dragon Age based on?

 

 

Lets start with the dragons for whom the series is named: dinosaurs.

 

Ancient humans found fossilized dinosaurs and didn't understand what they found, so they created dragon myths. Myths about giants and ogres had similar origins. The entire series, like every fantasy universe ever created, is heavily based on our own world and our own history and our own human experiences.

 

The point is that 'dragons and magic' doesn't work as an argument against the inclusion of elements that are realistic or resemble our own world, because the setting is already buried in such elements. In fact they outnumber the truly fantastic or mystical elements by a far margin.

 

 

How is this an argument for the exclusion of certain ethnicities from an entire world?

 

Strawman.

 

I never argued against the inclusion of other ethnicities in the world. In fact I stated the opposite. I had said I'd rather see a more diverse cast in the next game. I also added however, that I'd rather the inclusion was coupled with introducing new cultures into the lore, rolling the known borders back further, or expanding the lore on existing cultures that we don't know much about, like the Chasind or the Fex. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

So let's pose a hypothetical scenario.

 

Let's say that a while ago there was some asian-equivalent humans in the Dragon Age world who landed on Thedas. They settled an area, and over the generations they learned the languages and cultures of Thedas and yet their physical features remained. So really no need to delve into the culture of their ancestors because they are Thedasian, just with the features of their homeland.

 

Is this acceptable by both parties? 

 

I guess but it seems like a cop out, especially considering no one else in the setting views themselves as just "thedasians". We wouldn't have such strong nationalist conflicts if they were all about the one world mentality. Wouldn't they develop in whatever area they settled in though? Developing customs and beliefs over time as well as traditions that shape their societies and behaviors, like other countries did? Essentially losing their old identities and creating a new one over the millennia? I don't see how any group of people can settle an area longer then a few years and not at least develop some sense of identity or community with one another that is thrusts above being part of other nations identities.

[ZombieOberyn]

I think we need more white people in Thedas. Don't you agree Mockingword?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I guess but it seems like a cop out, especially considering no one else in the setting views themselves as just "thedasians". We wouldn't have such strong nationalist conflicts if they were all about the one world mentality. Wouldn't they develop in whatever area they settled in though? Developing customs and beliefs over time as well as traditions that shape their societies and behaviors, like other countries did? Essentially losing their old identities and creating a new one over the millennia? I don't see how any group of people can settle an area longer then a few years and not at least develop some sense of identity or community with one another that is thrusts above being part of other nations identities.

I used Thedasian as just a placeholder. If this group lived in Nevarra, they'd see themselves as Nevarran. If in Orlais, Orlesian. If in the Anderfels, Anders. etc. 

[AkiKishi]

I guess but it seems like a cop out, especially considering no one else in the setting views themselves as just "thedasians". We wouldn't have such strong nationalist conflicts if they were all about the one world mentality. Wouldn't they develop in whatever area they settled in though? Developing customs and beliefs over time as well as traditions that shape their societies and behaviors, like other countries did? Essentially losing their old identities and creating a new one over the millennia? I don't see how any group of people can settle an area longer then a few years and not at least develop some sense of identity or community with one another that is thrusts above being part of other nations identities.

 

Because the known world as it is, is very much Europe of around the Middle Ages. Each major human player in the known DA world has a European counterpart. 

Thats common when writing fantasy fiction, to take a real world element and alter it to fit your world. it's simply a case of writing what you know. 

 

Then you throw in non-humans to represent all the elements that modern folks would find distasteful , or you make them evil. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I used Thedasian as just a placeholder. If this group lived in Nevarra, they'd see themselves as Nevarran. If in Orlais, Orlesian. If in the Anderfels, Anders. etc. 

 

That's like saying because the Basque live in france or spain, that they're french of spaniards. Or that because england encompasses wales, that welsh people identify as english. Or that romanians aren't romanians because they live in other countries. And speaking of romanians, what about folks whose customs are more geared towards nomadic lifestyles? Do they get lumped into whatever country they wound up in  their travels and just give up identifying themselves as anything other then whatever countries boarders they find themselves in, giving up all their previous traditions and beliefs in the process of integration? 

 

All in all I don't think its as simple as you think.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Because the known world as it is, is very much Europe of around the Middle Ages. Each major human player in the known DA world has a European counterpart. 

Thats common when writing fantasy fiction, to take a real world element and alter it to fit your world. it's simply a case of writing what you know. 

 

Then you throw in non-humans to represent all the elements that modern folks would find distasteful , or you make them evil. 

 

No idea what you're talking about guy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's like saying because the Basque live in france or spain, that they're french of spaniards. Or that because england encompasses wales, that welsh people identify as english. Or that romanians aren't romanians because they live in other countries. And speaking of romanians, what about folks whose customs are more geared towards nomadic lifestyles? Do they get lumped into whatever country they wound up in  their travels and just give up identifying themselves as anything other then whatever countries boarders they find themselves in, giving up all their previous traditions and beliefs in the process of integration? 

 

All in all I don't think its as simple as you think.

No, it isn't. Those people in your examples saw themselves as their own culture and just lived in the territory of another. My example had the people assimilate into the nation they live in's culture until the only thing different about them is their appearance. Completely different.

 

Say some Qunari moved to Ferelden way back when and over time became culturally Ferelden and saw themselves as such. That's what I'm talking about.

[Cainhurst Crow]

No, it isn't. Those people in your examples saw themselves as their own culture and just lived in the territory of another. My example had the people assimilate into the nation they live in's culture until the only thing different about them is their appearance. Completely different.

 

Say some Qunari moved to Ferelden way back when and over time became culturally Ferelden and saw themselves as such. That's what I'm talking about.

 

Again, I say its a cop out because it just reduces them to being a mere minor footnote of history. Like how the normans used to be their own people and super power and now no one even remembers they were every independent from france. But I guess at that point it'd just be a sad little fact people would need to embrace and people could forget about seeing "asians" in dragon age, that being a race of people distinct from others, and just embrace seeing weird looking people who happen to look like asians in dragon age but are really just europeans instead.

 

Honestly its all rather a bit sad, like seeing the last effects of brainwashing take place on someone so they don't remember anything about themselves anymore. Or severe stockholm syndrome making them want to be with their conquerors. Its the way of the old world and all to break their conquered enemies into assimilation but still, its like hearing a wolf was beaten to the point it would fetch the paper and its owners slippers without needing to be told.

 

Old world stuff is always sad to learn about.