709 réponses à ce sujet

[Char]

Asia is a huuuge continent, with possibly the most diverse set of cultures in the world. I'd love to see some of these elements brought in in future installments. Perhaps after the Inquisitor we could have the Ambassador, charged with negotiating ties to a distant, recently discovered land, who gets mixed up in all kinds of awesome. Its probably already been done somewhere, but its easy to capture my imagination

[ThedosianExpat]

Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but would it be necessary to create a new region/people simply to introduce different facial feature types from what we've seen so far? We haven't seen many native Anders or Nevarrans, have we? And I know Cassandra's is not the first face that pops into mind when you think of "Asian-looking," but, well...

Spoiler

maybe something there?

I mean honestly, we've seen Fereldans, Orlesians, Kirkwall-ers(?), and Tevinters(?). I may be way wrong here, but we haven't had a ton of exposure to Marchers outside of Kirkwall, and even the few Antivans we've seen have been different enough to make it hard to pin down a single "look."

My thoughts, anyway. If I've overlooked something, be nice.

 

EDIT: Oh whoa, I totally forgot about Rivain! I think we've gotten a decent idea of the inspiration for their general appearance. But Par Vollen and Seheron? I'm not sure I know anything about their native population, offhand. Other than the fact there's an additional sentient race from there, which we've never seen yet.

[Tayah]

Being "Asian" myself (I used to get ticked off by this term, but I'm now used to it), I do notice the lack of Asians in fantasy games.  But of course, these fantasy games traditionally are based on medieval Europe, so yeah, Europeans.  The baddies seem to always be the ones that look different from other lands.  Unfortunately, that tends to be people who look like those peoples outside of Europe.  Being that this is a fantasy based on a certain area in the real world, I accept it, although am slightly sensitive to who they consider the enemies.  I don't really care for Asian-themed stuff in these games (and I actually hate seeing anime moves showing up in combat or Fenris-anime styles), although I don't see why there can't be some appearance differences (yes, some Europeans look Asian), while keeping in context with the world.  What I would be really concerned with is actually sticking in the token minority just for fanservice.  A character that just is there just because for sake of equality when there is really no equality.   Like the token woman.  Or a token ethnicity.  I don't know the background of Vivienne... where is she from?  Are there other African-American looking NPCs in Thedas?  I would hope so, and her not being one-off.  So yeah, I would be ok with Asian peoples in Thedas if it made sense in the context.... if say some country did have some people that looked like that and thus some NPCs and therefore a follower could also look like that.  Otherwise, then just having the option to make my character look more Asian if I had the desire to would be good enough.

There are other African (African-American) looking people in Rivain. Apparently natives of Rivain have skin tones ranging from tanned to ebony in colour which is why Isabella has darker skin and why Duncan was also supposed to have darker skin as his mother was supposedly from Rivain. DAO was really bad at rendering dark skin tones hence neither Duncan or Isabella looked particularly dark in it. As for Vivienne she may have been born in Orlais of Rivain heritage or she may have been brought to Orlais from Rivain either by her parents before her talent surfaced or depending on when and where she showed her magical talent and how templars decide where to take a child with magic they brought her to the circle in Orlais or something entirely different... which we'll find out come October if it's even mentioned or explained in game that is. 

[tmp7704]

I cringe every time I hear people call someone "Asian". It's the largest continent on the planet with a whole lot of countries with people who can look very different based on region, yet people from the rest of the world just love to round them off as "Asian". In my country alone, people's faces change from north to south. Saying a person looks "Asian" or immediately refer to a handful of countries is ignorant and sometimes even disrespectful. Then again, this is the internet so I've long since decided to not be bothered by it. Glad that at least I don't have to deal with it thanks to where I'm from and how I look.

Do you also cringe when people call someone "Caucasian" or "white"? After all, that includes people not from just one but 4 continents of the planet, and their faces change just as much from north to south...

[TurretSyndrome]

Do you also cringe when people call someone "Caucasian" or "white"? After all, that includes people not from just one but 4 continents of the planet, and their faces change just as much from north to south...

 

 

What is your point? If you're asking me whether ignorant idiots generalizing people based on colour is just as bad as them persisting to generalize people belonging to an entire continent rather than finding out the nationality, then you should already know the answer.

 

People ignorantly keep saying Asian but lack the common sense to figure out that it is technically too broad a term to refer to any one group of people, which was the point I was trying to make there. Depending on the context, they should know when to elaborate who they speak of.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I am indifferent to this. To me, this is a non-issue. 

 

I am an Asian who is currently living in Southeast Asia. If you want me to be specific, I am a Tamil.  

 

It doesn't matter what race or ethnic group of people exist in a fantasy game. It is a fantasy game...A game with elves, dwarves and Qunaris...Racial and ethnic distinctions among humans does not really matter in Thedas...

 

Humans in Thedas generally regard themselves different in terms of nations...Fereldans, Orlesians, Nevarrans, etc...Not due to ethnic differences...

 

Additionally, Asians represent a very broad and diverse group of people...there is Chinese Asians, Indian Asians, Malay Asians, Filipinos, Aboriginals, Intermarriages, etc..Those are broad general ones...Not even going into specifics like Tamils or Javanese or Bugis, etc...So which Asian are you speaking of ? I mean if you want to put all types of Asians in games...that would be quite the feat...

[Zazzerka]

What is your point? If you're asking me whether ignorant idiots generalizing people based on colour is just as bad as them generalizing people belonging to an entire continent, then you should already know the answer. People ignorantly keep saying Asian but lack the common sense to figure out that it is technically too broad a term to refer to any one group of people, which was the point I was trying to make there. 

 

Am I hearing you correctly? Anyone who isn't completely familiar with--and capable of differentiating between--the various countries that make up the continent of Asia, based purely on facial features, they're an ignorant idiot? I say the word "Asian" when I'm referring to someone who is definitely from Asia, but not a country that I could determine based on their face.

 

What exactly am I supposed to call them? Am I supposed to guess? You're just getting upset for the sake of getting upset.

[TurretSyndrome]

 

What exactly am I supposed to call them? Am I supposed to guess? You're just getting upset for the sake of getting upset.

 

I should've been more clear.  I was referring to the ones who like to continue using the term and not wanting to learn the nationality of the person they speak of(trust me there are some). I have no problem with people saying "that guy looks Asian", because as you said, you don't know any better. It's like me saying "I met a bunch of Europeans today". I'm saying it's just as bad to be grouped like that as it would be to be grouped based on colour when done on purpose. I'll edit my post.

[Rayndorn]

If Dwarves can have different shades of skin colour underground, then I think we could have a few Humans who just happen to resemble Eastern Asians, without sacrificing "realism" in a fantasy game.

I've always got a slight Eastern Asian vibe from Dwarves, though, having mentioned them - the doors and architecture is extremely grand, and reminds me of some famous Chinese buildings. That's not really on topic, but I thought I'd point out one of my little ideas.

 

[Bugsie]

Do you also cringe when people call someone "Caucasian" or "white"? After all, that includes people not from just one but 4 continents of the planet, and their faces change just as much from north to south...

The etiology and use of 'Caucasian' is just as problematic as other outdated racial terms coined by physical anthropologists (white is a modern use and far more appropriate for how we actually use the term nowadays).  I would add though that 'Asian' is a far less loaded term than it's predecessor, (which I won't refer to here).

 

 

I should've been more clear.  I was referring to the ones who like to continue using the term and not wanting to learn the nationality of the person they speak of(trust me there are some). I have no problem with people saying "that guy looks Asian", because as you said, you don't know any better. It's like me saying "I met a bunch of Europeans today". I'm saying it's just as bad to be grouped like that as it would be to be grouped based on colour when done on purpose. I'll edit my post.

The terms certainly are outdated.  But so many people are ignorant of the many diverse ethnic groupings.  Either that or they're just too lazy to bother finding out.

[efd731]

There are other African (African-American) looking people in Rivain. Apparently natives of Rivain have skin tones ranging from tanned to ebony in colour which is why Isabella has darker skin and why Duncan was also supposed to have darker skin as his mother was supposedly from Rivain. DAO was really bad at rendering dark skin tones hence neither Duncan or Isabella looked particularly dark in it. As for Vivienne she may have been born in Orlais of Rivain heritage or she may have been brought to Orlais from Rivain either by her parents before her talent surfaced or depending on when and where she showed her magical talent and how templars decide where to take a child with magic they brought her to the circle in Orlais or something entirely different... which we'll find out come October if it's even mentioned or explained in game that is.

and people were complaining about "Asian" being too vague lol. Now we get a single dark-skinned companion an she's "African American"

[ReallyRue]

What kind of Asian? I think Scribbles/Scribe Lady looks somewhat Asian. Her concept art reminds me a little of a Pakistani girl I used to go to uni with.

 

I'm happy to have more variety in appearance, I tend to make a variety of looks for my different Wardens/Hawkes.

 

and people were complaining about "Asian" being too vague lol. Now we get a single dark-skinned companion an she's "African American"

 

Not a huge fan of the term 'African American', personally, since 'American' is a nationality, not an ethnic group. I've noticed a few occasions when black people from other countries (including Africa itself) are referred to wrongly as American.

[daveliam]

 

Not a huge fan of the term 'African American', personally, since 'American' is a nationality, not an ethnic group. I've noticed a few occasions when black people from other countries (including Africa itself) are referred to wrongly as American.

 

I used to teach at a high school in Brooklyn that had a really high population of Caribbean students.  Some of them would get really upset if they were called African-American because, to them, the connotation was that they were born and raised in the U.S.  They much preferred "black".  So now I tend to say black unless I know the person is culturally American. 

[Nefla]

So in order to not be offensive, if someone wants to see characters that look "Asian" (and does not care which country they specifically look from) they need to list every country in Asia? "I wish we saw more characters that looked Chinese, Philipino, Laosian, Korean, Thai, Japanese, Mongolian, etc..." Until there's a huge list? Every time? I guess we should just stick with black people and white people since they don't care about not being listed ex:"Turkish, Swedish, Norweigian, Irish, Polish, German, etc..." Far more convenient and less likely to trigger some rage apparently.

[PrayingMantis]

Nah I absolutly don't understand how more people from eastern countries could conflict with the lore of the game. Sure, I haven't seen them in previous games and it would be a sudden change if there was suddenly such a diversity in the game, but everything could be super-easily explained. E.g.:

- Adventurers from another continent who got curious

- Salesmen

- people who search for work

- People who just want to start a new life 

- Politicians who come in order to discuss things like sea trade, agreements in the economy, alliances, etc.

You could e.g. meet a greater amount of people from the east on coastal regions, since they come by ship.

There are lots of possibilities.

We have dwarves, elves, qunaris and freaking werewolves (only in DA:O though) runnin' around, but people complain how ' "Asians" might conflict with the lore ' ? Nah. That's ridicilous if you ask me. Everything is possible if you can explain it in a good way.

[tmp7704]

What is your point? If you're asking me whether ignorant idiots generalizing people based on colour is just as bad as them persisting to generalize people belonging to an entire continent rather than finding out the nationality, then you should already know the answer.

The question I asked was pretty straightforward, I think -- do you also get upset when someone uses equivalents of "Asian" aimed at different groups? And no, I don't already know the answer; I wouldn't have asked the question in such case. (if I had to guess it'd be a "no" since you didn't display any negative reaction to use of "Westerner" in your country, while taking time to reiterate that use of "Asian" specifically is in your eyes ridiculously ambiguous)

The "point" was to satisfy my personal curiosity whether your upset was universal, or limited to cases where you're on the receiving end of it.
 

The etiology and use of 'Caucasian' is just as problematic as other outdated racial terms coined by physical anthropologists (white is a modern use and far more appropriate for how we actually use the term nowadays).  I would add though that 'Asian' is a far less loaded term than it's predecessor, (which I won't refer to here).

Pretty much. While overly broad I don't think these terms are negative per se, and they do have some practical use so I found the outburst over it rather curious.

(i'm under impression 'Caucasian' is more of a thing in the U.S. where it's viewed as some sort of PC match to African-American --vs white/black-- but I could be mistaken about it. Not a term I'd use myself in any case, since "white" is more flexible)

[LinksOcarina]

So...where are the Europeans in Dragon Age? All I see are Fereldens, Rivaini, Orlesians, and Tevene folk. 

 

Once we figure that out, then lets put in some Asians and Africans too. 

[TurretSyndrome]

So in order to not be offensive, if someone wants to see characters that look "Asian" (and does not care which country they specifically look from) they need to list every country in Asia? "I wish we saw more characters that looked Chinese, Philipino, Laosian, Korean, Thai, Japanese, Mongolian, etc..." Until there's a huge list? Every time? I guess we should just stick with black people and white people since they don't care about not being listed ex:"Turkish, Swedish, Norweigian, Irish, Polish, German, etc..." Far more convenient and less likely to trigger some rage apparently.

 

There was nothing "offensive" about saying Asian-looking, OP's request was just vague. Was he talking about Russians and Indians too? Was he only talking about countries like China, Japan, Malaysia? Which "Asian" does he want to see in the game exactly? Because there are 10s of countries in it and thousands of diverse groups. "More Europeans in Thedas, please", would you know what the guy would be talking about then? 

 

 

The question I asked was pretty straightforward, I think -- do you also get upset when someone uses equivalents of "Asian" aimed at different groups? And no, I don't already know the answer; I wouldn't have asked the question in such case. (if I had to guess it'd be a "no" since you didn't display any negative reaction to use of "Westerner" in your country, while taking time to reiterate that use of "Asian" specifically is in your eyes ridiculously ambiguous)

The "point" was to satisfy my personal curiosity whether your upset was universal, or limited to cases where you're on the receiving end of it.

 

I wasn't upset because of the use of the word. I was expressing my irritation of the generalization of the word in certain contexts, saying Asian and slapping a Chinese man's picture below a comment for example. I'd call a man European, not because I enjoy generalizing all the ones in Europe, rather that I lack any information beyond that, of that person. Once I'm aware of their nationality, I would refer to them as such.

 

And yes, while I won't get irritated when I'm not on the receiving end, I would certainly correct someone who would say something like "French, Italian, German, English, they're all the same!", I have a personal distaste for people with a lack of interest in educating themselves about such things. It's not as explosive as "all black people are the same, don't care where they're from", but it's something I frown upon that's for sure.

 

Also, do not take what I said about the word Westerner in my country as an implication for it to be in extensive use, it isn't. Most people these days either say Foreigner or refer to the nationality of the person, as far as I know. 

 

Anyway, 99% of the time I really just let it go. I've watched people here talk about stuff like this for a while now, but unfortunately, today was the day I decided to step on this crap, and boy do I regret it. That'll teach me.

[Amfortas]

Reading this thread I can only think of one thing: The chinaman is not the issue here Dude

[Nashiktal]

To be honest with you all, with that I heard described about the Qunari, mixed with the Arashok's armor... Well I thought the Qunari were the "asians" of thedas. Although that is probably just me over generalizing a few traits mentioned.

[AkiKishi]

Last I heard there were no Asians on Thedas.

[ladyoflate]

Even Gaider admits those are based on various European countries. A bit less fantasical than D&D or Tolkien. It kind of reminds me of Robert E Howard's setting (the Conan stories), where every nation had a real counterpart.

 

I don't really care, but just saying.

 

It's really obvious those are based on European countries. Really, really obvious. What even, person.

[Fast Jimmy]

Heh. I had already read this thread a dozen times before. It just keeps getting better with every reemergence.

[DaySeeker]

Make another Jade Empire game, please. I would love that. I don't remember people saying there needed to be more minorities or white folks in Jade Empire. Dragon Age is medieval European.

More racial diversity in games, yes please. More political correctness, no, thank you.