709 réponses à ce sujet

[Bugsie]

Which asain are we talking about here? Are we talking east asian, or south asain, or northern asian, or western asian? Or mixed region asain, such as south-east asia or north-western asia?
 
Ideally, I would like any sort of allegory to asia and asians to get a similar treatment as rivianians, and get their own nation and culture to call their own, that give them more depth then could be summed up in a single sentence, like "The asians have strange shaped eyes and off color skin", or "Elves are short and excel at poverty."

I think that is part of the problem. 'Asian' is to generic a term, hence the argument for a more fully fleshed out presence in the game.

[TurretSyndrome]

Which asain are we talking about here? Are we talking east asian, or south asain, or northern asian, or western asian? Or mixed region asain, such as south-east asia or north-western asia?

 

Ideally, I would like any sort of allegory to asia and asians to get a similar treatment as rivianians, and get their own nation and culture to call their own, that give them more depth then could be summed up in a single sentence, like "The asians have strange shaped eyes and off color skin", or "Elves are short and excel at poverty."

 

That's what I keep asking people. Which region's people are you advocating for the inclusion, because Asia is friggin humongous. A fan saying "I want Asians" and developer slapping an Asian-looking man in the game in response, is not something I want to see happen. Rounding off all the people in Asia and declining/ignoring requests to elaborate further is a bit offensive.

[KC_Prototype]

Her? Slightly.

[Cainhurst Crow]

That's what I keep asking people. Which region's people are you advocating for the inclusion, because Asia is friggin humongous. A fan saying "I want Asians" and developer slapping an Asian-looking man in the game in response, is not something I want to see happen. Rounding off all the people in Asia and declining/ignoring requests to elaborate further is a bit offensive.

 

I would personally like to see a bit of south asia or north asia make it into the game. Everyone always either bases theirs on china, or japan. I'd much rather see something allegorical to ancient/per-industrious India, Cambodia, Indonesia, or Mongolia be presented instead, just for the sake of shaking things up.

[TurretSyndrome]

I would personally like to see a bit of south asia or north asia make it into the game. Everyone always either bases theirs on china, or japan. I'd much rather see something allegorical to ancient/per-industrious India, Cambodia, Indonesia, or Mongolia be presented instead, just for the sake of shaking things up.

 

India, where I'm from, is certainly a treasure trove for a number of cultural inspirations. It has a history of thousands of years, and has been a witness to the rise and fall of many civilizations. Indus Valley civilization for one, which was one of the most advanced civilizations you could find on earth at the time. If game developers were only interested in looking past the typical American and European settings they keep recycling, they'd be coming up with a lot of unique settings in their games. 

[Shadow Storm]

Wait there was Asians in DAO?

[Fast Jimmy]

Which asain are we talking about here? Are we talking east asian, or south asain, or northern asian, or western asian? Or mixed region asain, such as south-east asia or north-western asia?

I think we are actually talking about having members of the band Asia in the game.



I never meant to be so bad to you...
One thing I said that I would never do...

[LinksOcarina]

Even Gaider admits those are based on various European countries. A bit less fantasical than D&D or Tolkien. It kind of reminds me of Robert E Howard's setting (the Conan stories), where every nation had a real counterpart.

 

I don't really care, but just saying.

 

And Jade Empire is a game with Asian fusion going on, borrowing elements of Chinese, Japanese, Hindi and Tibetan culture before blending it into one that is wholly unique from those cultures. Last I checked, there is no Jade Empire in the real world, that is an island nation with mysticism going on, I guess I fail to see what the point is.

 

Look, what Gaider or any other developer says about Dragon Age being based on Western European countries is a moot point. Tolkien based the elven languages off of old Welsh, Scandonavian and Finnish, if I remember correctly, while borrowing customs and traditions from those sources to create Rohan and Gondor.

 

This entire conversation about more Asians in Dragon Age is kind of pointless, because Asians don't exist in Dragon Age. Neither do Europeans. So I don't quite understand, really, what the point of this all is. If you want an "Chinese-like equivalent" that borrows history and culture to create a new nation you can explore, ok I get that. But I am not expecting it at all at this point, since were not even off Thedas yet. 

[Devtek]

Um...

 

Are you also arguing against tokenism? Because I can totally get behind that as the reason why someone wouldn't want to see more Asian NPCs but I'm not sure you're arguing from that angle... Justifing their non inclusion because they're tied to a particular 'kingdom' we haven't seen yet... You're imparting real world divisions in ethnicity in a fantasy setting... And I thought Bioware were actively avoiding such comparisons.

 

I simply meant that suddenly having a complete shift in the make-up of the population of Thedas would be weird only because it has been established with two games already (arguably because of the limits of the tech / time, not any purposeful decision) that the people of Theadas look a certain way.  While changing the looks of random people would certainly only effect people like me (those are posting on a forum about a game we know hardly anything about 5 months before it comes out), I do not on principle like change for change's sake. We have a full established mythos concerning the people of the places we have played in, changing that  just to change it is wrong IMO.  And yes I am against tokenism, simply having the "one black guy", "that asian assassin chick" etc is a poor way to include someone.  This is especially the case in a place where racism is based on how pointy your ears are, how do you think they would feel if even more "strange" people turned up.  If they are going to introduce more varieties of people (thanks to improved tech that allow them to do more than simply "yellow human" (i'm looking at you Sten)) then I would hope that those people have a unique culture / philosophy / etc just like what they did for the Qunari.  Make it another invasion from the various places the people on Thedas think are wastelands, a mass migration running from another "big bad", a strange looking ship coming into port in Rivain and so on.  Simply having someone different show up for no apparent reason would not fit with what we already know of Thedas, anything new should come with their own history, their own story; that is what these games are about aren't they? Story?  I would personally prefer any new races to actually be new races rather than different humans, humans are boring but if they want more humans, at least make them have a purpose.

[TurretSyndrome]

And Jade Empire is a game with Asian fusion going on, borrowing elements of Chinese, Japanese, Hindi and Tibetan culture before blending it into one that is wholly unique from those cultures.

 

It's Hindu religion, Hindi is the language. Anyway, can you tell me what part of the Hindu culture, the game took inspiration from? I'm just curious.

[Nefla]

They could put some people who look like they're from Vietnam, Cambodia, etc...and have them be from Rivain. Rivain has darker skinned people we know, but they don't have a common look. Duncan looked Persian, DA:O Isabella looked white with a tan and DA2 Isabella looked Hispanic(but was supposed to be black), who else have we even seen? We've only visited two countries, and even so Human ethnicities aren't even noted in DA, the only racism going on is between humans/elves/Qunari/dwarves.

[LinksOcarina]

It's Hindu religion, Hindi is the language. Anyway, can you tell me what part of the Hindu culture, the game took inspiration from? I'm just curious.

 

The most prominent example is the Elephant demon being a reference to  Gajasura from Hindu mythology.

 

Other examples include dress and cultural styles meshed with others. Silk Fox for example is dressed in a mix of Japanese and Indian garments, (armor with a black choli, and a veil so she looks more ninja-like). Other characters have a mix in terms of clothing as well, drawing inspiration from numerous sources. One could also argue the fighting techniques involving magic being of hindu origin, since the Atharvaveda discusses how one can achieve supernatural powers through meditation and discipline. 

[TurretSyndrome]

Ah OK, that's light but pretty cool, I never played that game. I was concerned that Bioware may have used he Hindu god Ganapati for the elephant demom. I don't mind the usage of the cultural aspects of my country and it's religions but there are some works of entertainment like Supernatural who use them in a highly offensive manner.

[efd731]

How is supernatural offensive about it? (Genuinely curious)
Is it the fact that they just go pick folklore and religion from cultures without rhyme or reason as the episode demands?

[BioWareM0d13]

They could put some people who look like they're from Vietnam, Cambodia, etc...and have them be from Rivain. Rivain has darker skinned people we know, but they don't have a common look. Duncan looked Persian, DA:O Isabella looked white with a tan and DA2 Isabella looked Hispanic(but was supposed to be black), who else have we even seen? We've only visited two countries, and even so Human ethnicities aren't even noted in DA, the only racism going on is between humans/elves/Qunari/dwarves.

 

If Bioware were to create characters with an Asian appearance for either DA:I or the next DA game, I think it would be better to have them be from one of the cultures living beyond Par Vollen. 

[TurretSyndrome]

How is supernatural offensive about it? (Genuinely curious)
Is it the fact that they just go pick folklore and religion from cultures without rhyme or reason as the episode demands?

 

In one episode, they brought goddess Kali in. She has sex with an angel or demon, I don't remember, then he betrays and kills her. There are also other gods they bring in from other religions which they bash in that episode. Wasn't exactly offensive to me because I'm not much of a religious person, but it certainly felt gratuitous and demeaning to the religion itself.

 

 

Then again, I wouldn't take it too seriously. Kali is hanging out with Baldur, Hermes, the Angel Gabriel (who also doubles as Loki), and Lucifer.

 

I know for a fact that there would be a major uproar in my country if it got noticed. Indians take such things very seriously.

[TurretSyndrome]

I'm sure it would. I'm just saying.. the show is pretty odd on many levels. It's more of a comedy to me than anything (like Ghostbusters or something).

 

Sure, I've always watched the show for similar reasons. It's just that, that particular usage of Hindu gods felt unnecessary and disrespectful, even if it is fiction. The writers could've easily utilized it in a far less offensive manner, but they didn't. I think I stopped after the Lucifer arc or something, been thinking of resuming it. 

[TurretSyndrome]

Here's something I found about India's views on such usage of its religions. This is how seriously they feel about the religious integrity in the country.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Here's something I found about India's views on such usage of its religions. This is how seriously they feel about the religious integrity in the country.

 

Perhaps its my background of growing up in a mostly liberalist society that encourages personal freedoms over government actions, but that just made me feel sick reading about.

[TurretSyndrome]

Perhaps its my background of growing up in a mostly liberalist society that encourages personal freedoms over government actions, but that just made me feel sick reading about.

 

To be fair, as much as the article likes to insinuate that the Indian government or Indian population in general is very anti-liberal, that is not the case. Personal freedoms are just as much valued here as your own societies. The only exceptions, or rather the only scenarios where most Indians are aggressive, are towards insults and mockery of their beliefs by individuals for whatever reasons. The saying "give respect and take respect" applies quite hardily here.

 

The reason India is not a region rife with constant civil war(something many wonder) despite being the most diverse and the largest democratic nation in the world is because there is a level of mutual understanding and respect between people of various beliefs. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Could be the Supernatural episode with "Kali" in it? That's the only thing Hindu thing I remember from that show.
 
Then again, I wouldn't take it too seriously. Kali is hanging out with Baldur, Hermes, the Angel Gabriel (who also doubles as Loki), and Lucifer.
 
And they get their asses kicked by a smartass redneck with a Colt revolver.

And thus, the church of Bobby Singer was born.