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In before someone yells Hitler.
LOL!
I really thought there'd be more counterculture BioWare players picking the salarians over the krogans. Boy was I wrong.
Nerds still like jocks over other nerds 
We don't know the mechanism, but the results are very positive. Probably not universally so, but generally speaking. I imagine there will be a variety of reactions among the first generation, but Synthesis will eventually be taken for granted.
Why do you think they are ”very positive”?
I may be wrong but, as far as I know, we know neither the mechanism nor what the actual results are.
If Synthesis were perfect, Shepard would be able to survive it.
Wait...forget I said anything. No. Stop. Don't!
And remember that the affected population is every single living thing in the entire galaxy, including all those bits that never even knew the Reaper war was going on.Synthesis is a change from the natural state of things, with the purpose to “correct” a dubious problem that is external to the individual. It is not necessarily something that a person affected may have desired in the first place. Or even find desirable. That such a liberty is taken with their very self would, imo, likely generate a no small amount of anger and resentment in a broad part of the affected population.
Maskless, quarians, rebuilt and improved Tuchanka and Earth. These are objectively good things unique to Synthesis.Why do you think they are ”very positive”?
I may be wrong but, as far as I know, we know neither the mechanism nor what the actual results are.
And can be achieved without it, it'll just take a bit longer. "If we could forcibly change people everything would be better" might well be true, and it's always been an abhorrent concept.Maskless, quarians, rebuilt and improved Tuchanka and Earth. These are objectively good things unique to Synthesis.
The replay value of the entire trilogy is quite high.
I personally find that I've tired of ME3 after 4 playthroughs, but that's just me, and even then I do think the Leviathan and Citadel DLCs did A LOT to improve the game overall.
I never tire of 1 and 2, though.
And can be achieved without it, it'll just take a bit longer. "If we could forcibly change people everything would be better" might well be true, and it's always been an abhorrent concept.
Unless of course, you are changing people to end a catastrophic galactic war.
Most likely, with no one alive that knows what happened at the chamber, it's just as likely Synthesis will be seen as a divine miracle that made the Reapers benevolent and ended the war. I'm not even sure there's anyone to which people can direct their anger. Synthesis isn't just a product of Shepard - as far as the galaxy knows it was what the Crucible was always designed to do, and thus unavoidable if they wished to live.
That isn't a moral argument, just reasoning for why this sort of mass despair being predicted is unlikely.
The problem with Synthesis is you don't get to opt out. That's an absolute violation of everyone who would refuse it. With really unpleasant implications.
You can't opt-out of the initial wave, but if enough people care that much, they're free to come up with ways to reverse the effects afterwards if they so choose.
As for said 'wave, saying "But [I/you/he/she/it/we/ye/they] will be pissed!" is not really compelling reason against... well, any given decision to be made at any time. Can't always please everyone, nor is that a good thing to base one's logic off of.
LOL!
I really thought there'd be more counterculture BioWare players picking the salarians over the krogans. Boy was I wrong.
Nerds still like jocks over other nerds
I know. Eh, it's emotional writing. People like emotions a lot more than they like thinking. Who care's if it's bad if it feels good!
Yes, we don't know much about Synthesis. But we don't see any downsides in the slides, so I have to work with the information I'm given rather than concocting or supposing unsupported hypothetical downsides in the appearance of an argument against.
Here’s a problem; we don’t know of any upside either; at least not for the individual. And actually, if you notice, I did work with the information provided by the game, plus knowledge of human nature including as it is shown in the series.
Synthesis is the answer to a specific problem. Not a form to satisfy the needs and desires of the individual affected by it. That is one of the few things that the Catalyst does tell us about it. It is an imposed transformation to satisfy a debatable need external to the individual.
Plus, ME humans being human, it is expectable they react as humans do; unless the story provides a clear, valid reason why it is not so; in this case, I would argue that to transform someone to some degree without their consent, (and arguably for a dubious reason to boot), it is likely to create an adverse reaction of many of those so transformed.
The "correction" of organic flaws may well be irrelevant to the Shepard deciding. The decision that Synthesis is the best choice need not include the decision that organic/synthetic relations are doomed, but rather that this is the best way to stop the Reapers. Now, the fact that the Reapers are still alive and well is likely to cause a great amount of confusion and turmoil in the years to follow. But the game implies through the slides that eventually peaceful coexistence prevails, at least to the same degree that such prevails among any of the galaxy's inhabitants (which is to say, intermittently).
I believe that is reasonably expectable that a good part of the population would not embrace synthesis, or the Reapers, as it seems to go against human nature to expect near unanimous acceptance of a rather invasive transformation, performed for nebulous reasons, at the behest of a rather heinous enemy.
Now, if the writer decides that humans, (and aliens), will react, in this instance, in a way that is not reasonably expectable by a good part of his audience, (as it seems to be the case), then he should provide a clear reason why is it so.
To not do so means his writing fails, as the believability of the scenario he created is broken. It is not enough to produce EDI claiming she is enjoying her new situation, plus a bunch of vague expectations she may have of a bright future, or a number of generic slides, coloured green, that provide no information about the why is it so, as it fails to provide a reasonable reason of why it is “so good” a solution in the first place.
Maskless, quarians, rebuilt and improved Tuchanka and Earth. These are objectively good things unique to Synthesis.
I'd argue on the 'improved' Tuchanka part. We have very different idea's of what good that is. Same with Quarians.
You can't opt-out of the initial wave, but if enough people care that much, they're free to come up with ways to reverse the effects afterwards if they so choose.
Hmm, reversing a fundamental change at the genetic level might be a little difficult. Could take the salarians several generations... or, you know, a month next tuesday.
Really though, I think anyone who did 'opt out', and found a way to successfully do so, would find existence very lonely in a 'you-are-not-us' kinda way.
Maskless, quarians, rebuilt and improved Tuchanka and Earth. These are objectively good things unique to Synthesis.
Not as far as I know. If I remember correctly, Earth is rebuilt even in destroy; the game tells us that quarians will eventually regain their immunity, with or without the geth; Tuchanka is shown being rebuilt in Destroy. There is nothing unique seen about it, aside the green glow.
You can't opt-out of the initial wave, but if enough people care that much, they're free to come up with ways to reverse the effects afterwards if they so choose.
As for said 'wave, saying "But [I/you/he/she/it/we/ye/they] will be pissed!" is not really compelling reason against... well, any given decision to be made at any time. Can't always please everyone, nor is that a good thing to base one's logic off of.
Can you opt out?
Synthesis is a solution for a perceived problem. If enough people refuse the solution and manage to reverse it, how would the reapers react to that?
As for said 'wave, saying "But [I/you/he/she/it/we/ye/they] will be pissed!" is not really compelling reason against... well, any given decision to be made at any time. Can't always please everyone, nor is that a good thing to base one's logic off of.
Personally I think It would depend of the eventual consequences of them being angry.
Here’s a problem; we don’t know of any upside either; at least not for the individual. And actually, if you notice, I did work with the information provided by the game, plus knowledge of human nature including as it is shown in the series.
As you say, the Catalyst deems this the solution to "the problem" at the center of organic/synthetic relations. But the ways in which this solution is brought about can give benefits valuable in their own right. If the answer to organic inferiority to synthetics is the integration of tech, and the ability for organics to improve at an exponential rate, then we can assume organic DNA is being combined with technology in a way that allows them to progress dramatically on the technological front.
I believe that is reasonably expectable that a good part of the population would not embrace synthesis, or the Reapers, as it seems to go against human nature to expect near unanimous acceptance of a rather invasive transformation, performed for nebulous reasons, at the behest of a rather heinous enemy.
The bolded is irrelevant, since the population does not have this information. It knows that its been changed on some fundamental level, which ended the Reaper war.
To not do so means his writing fails, as the believability of the scenario he created is broken. It is not enough to produce EDI claiming she is enjoying her new situation, plus a bunch of vague expectations she may have of a bright future, or a number of generic slides, coloured green, that provide no information about the why is it so, as it fails to provide a reasonable reason of why it is “so good” a solution in the first place.
Sour grapes that no downsides were presented. Personally, I agree that Synthesis need not be presented as so positive with no negatives. But it is indeed presented this way, so when arguing about the effect on the galaxy post-war, this is the reality with which you need to deal.
To reiterate: the degree to which this transformation is "invasive" ends with those invaded: the first generation. With no visible downsides presented, there is no reason to suspect the next generation will hold any ill will whatsoever to a transformation which provided tangible benefits and prevented extinction. If new information comes to light that Synthesis did more harm than good, then I will reevaluate my opinion of this.
I also disagree with HYR that the transformation is reversible. This is a permanent new state of life in the galaxy, at least until something drastic like Synthesis happens again.
Not as far as I know. If I remember correctly, Earth is rebuilt even in destroy; the game tells us that quarians will eventually regain their immunity, with or without the geth; Tuchanka is shown being rebuilt in Destroy. There is nothing unique seen about it, aside the green glow.
Hmm, reversing a fundamental change at the genetic level might be a little difficult. Could take the salarians several generations... or, you know, a month next tuesday.
It's not like everyone was taken apart and put back together with new building-blocks. Their existing forms were "synthesized." It had to have created something that wasn't there before to achieve the desired effects. Destroy or deactivate whatever causes them.
Really though, I think anyone who did 'opt out', and found a way to successfully do so, would find existence very lonely in a 'you-are-not-us' kinda way.
... and that problem exists already with people who are born of different race/ethnicity, choose different religious beliefs for themselves than those around them, among many, many other things. Lack of acceptance is hardly reason to do away with things (though it does seem like plenty of reason for many to try).
It's not like everyone was taken apart and put back together with new building-blocks. Their existing forms were "synthesized." It had to have created something that wasn't there before to achieve the desired effects. Destroy or deactivate whatever causes them.
... and that problem exists already with people who are born of different race/ethnicity, choose different religious beliefs for themselves than those around them, among many, many other things. Lack of acceptance is hardly reason to do away with things (though it does seem like plenty of reason for many to try).
That's a fair point. Since we are led to believe that synthesis is the ideal solution, someone would have to want to opt out first, I guess.
There are actually krogan who believe that curing the genophage would be a bad thing. You cure it anyway. Poor krogan, eh?
The geth position until the Reaper upgrade was distributed was that they should find their own way and do it alone. You upgrade them anyway. Poor past-geth, eh?
There are actually krogan who believe that curing the genophage would be a bad thing. You cure it anyway. Poor krogan, eh?
The geth position until the Reaper upgrade was distributed was that they should find their own way and do it alone. You upgrade them anyway. Poor past-geth, eh?
If you're talking about pre-resolution on Rannoch, I thought the geth reached consensus that accepting the reapers' help was the only way to survive the quarian invasion?
If you're talking about pre-resolution on Rannoch, I thought the geth reached consensus that accepting the reapers' help was the only way to survive the quarian invasion?
Yes, basically the geth lost significant brainpower when the quarians attacked their vital area. They switched to self preservation and the only way they found to survive was to ally with the reapers. Even if that meant they would be used by the reapers, they didn't want to cease functioning.
There are actually krogan who believe that curing the genophage would be a bad thing. You cure it anyway. Poor krogan, eh?
The geth position until the Reaper upgrade was distributed was that they should find their own way and do it alone. You upgrade them anyway. Poor past-geth, eh?
*Legion upgrades them anyway. And there are actually quite a few people who would argue "poor past-geth" on this board, though I am not one.
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