485 réponses à ce sujet

[Hadeedak]

I was just using a kneejerky Javik quote in response to a kneejerky Saren quote.

 

...Hell yeah, Control. But since Mass Effect is replayable, I've had Shepards who match with all of the endings.

[vallore]

 
That wasn't the intent of the example, but I see how you could think that. Rather, it was to see the reaction from society to the rejection of technology. In the Amish example, it's all technology. But I can give other less extreme examples. However, it's more useful to examine rejection of technology that is, for all intents and purposes, a massive change that, if accepted, would constitute a radical readjustment on the part of a population, rather than fringe technology like a new Windows OS. There are several reasons for this, one being that Synthesis is an all-or-nothing deal. There's no other Synthesis to which people can turn, whereas rejection of Windows 8 just means you use Windows 7. Accordingly, the best example I can think of is the internet. Rejection of the internet makes you, in a society where modern technology is both accepted and expected, an outlier, and a minority. Now imagine if the internet were free, like Synthesis. How many wouldn't choose to accept it, despite drawbacks such as government spying and identity theft? The simplest reason for this is that the forces that drive innovation in society would leave them behind and they would be at a disadvantage living their lives going forward - whether they like it or not. Once obtained, their children would take the internet for granted, warts and all.

 

This is one of the things I find interesting:

 

Synthesis, as you described in an earlier post, does not offer individual organics benefits that cannot be achieved without it.

If synthesis acts by replacing organic components by tech; if it uses Shepard and his implants as a template,  then what it does at that level, is not unique; actually it can be argued it is even relatively common in ME universe, and certainly doesn’t require synthesis. Need/want a synthetic heart? You can have one without synthesis. Same with needing a windows OS for your PC. 

 

 

 

That was how Shepard's implants began, but read the descriptions of the upgrades he receives during the course of ME2. Read about the Heavy Bone Weave. Shepard's bones are nigh unbreakable now. And so forth. Hell, Shepard survives a peripheral blast from a Reaper laser at the end of ME3.

True. Imo it is interesting to notice that none of those guarantee that Shepard did not eradicated the geth, or that she trusted EDI. And all of those implants were attained without requiring synthesis.

 

 

Honestly? I don't believe very many. The galaxy won't have time to sit and contemplate the meaning of Synthesis. They will have to rebuild, find family members, relocate. By the time they might actually get done surviving the post-war wasteland, the shock of Synthesis may well have worn off. It's incredible what humans can get used to, given time. And who knows, if Synthesis actually assists in the post-war effort? That might be taken as further evidence that was it initiated by the good guys, besides the fact that it stopped the war.

 

and

 

You have a higher opinion of the masses' interest in metaphysical questions and striking out on their own path to answers than I do. Most will, as I said, be interested in more practical, concrete concerns immediately following the war. And even if they don't, most people are sheep. I don't feel bad at all for making the weak will of the individual in a society a reason for accepting Synthesis, since I'm not making a moral argument.

 

Here we clearly disagree. The first moment, people feel relief. Next they start to worry; as a rule, glowing in the dark is not a sign of a good thing and is not a thing you can just forget; people will want to know exactly what happened to them, what happened to their surviving love ones; next doctors will notice the sudden replacement of organic organs by tech. Are those replacements occurring in the case of healthy organs? If so, a lot will not be happy about it. Sure people will have other priorities, but will not forget it; they will remember every time they look in the mirror. This is even truer if we assume that synthesis is not a one-time change but rather an evolving process, and further truer if the process is dissociated (at least in part) of individual choice.

 

It has very little to do with a newfound keen interest for metaphysics. Preservation of the self is usually a high priority; and I would argue that for many of us, that is not dissociable of one’s own body and mind.

 

 
Eh, I'd actually say that my argument requires the people in charge along with a large chunk of the general populace to accept Synthesis.
 

 

The people in charge have no particular reason to not wanting to know how synthesis works and it’s implications, for them and others. Quite the contrary, I would say it is actually part of their job.

[Farangbaa]

The only thing that's really stupid about synthesis, is that's not a common thing in the MEU already.

 

The Asari have been at the Citadel for.. how long? Millenia? There's not a single transasari in the game. 

No transturians, no transsalarians. If any species would love synthesis/adding synthetic stuff to their bodies, it would be the short lived Salarians.

Transvolus? I'm sure a lot of them would like to get out their pressure suits.

Transelcor, transhanar, transdrell. 

 

None of this.

 

Aside from FTL and anything else related to the mass effect, the MEU technology is remarkably similar to contempory times.

[KaiserShep]

I imagine if the salarians were seriously trying to prolong their lives, they'd probably work toward genetically engineering the next generation to last longer rather than simply augment the current one with tech. In general, gene therapy and such seems to be the preferred approach of advanced civilizations in the MEU, save for synthetic implants for biotics. But you do have the occasional VI-assisted memory, like President Huerta.

 

In any case, the whole trans thing is very vague. What would the volus have to augment to make themselves invulnerable to lower pressure environments? What would the long-lived, highly advanced and universally biotic asari get out of it? I guess I can see something for the turians, but what they'd likely go for would probably be like what we see in the description of the soldier when selecting classes. They'd probably want something that enhances their senses and strength, making them more proficient warriors. But again, these things already exist in this setting. I imagine there'd be some fool out there who wants to surgically implant a flash drive in his fingertip or have a magnet put in his elbow, but f*ck all if anyone can figure out what good that does.

[Farangbaa]

Squishy --> Nigh indestructible. The answer to all your questions

 

In all seriousness though, I don't really have answers to any of those questions: I'm not really sure of what the possibilities of adding tech to an organism are. But I suppose the possibilities are endless. 

 

Indestructible skull? Yes please.

Metal infused skin? Yes please, especially to the Volus. (oh... I answered one)

Tech aided muscles? Yes please.

 

Honestly, the possibilities are endless, but we see none of it. There's only so much gene therapy can do, tech can everything else. I find it preposterous we don't see at least a dozen of meka-organisms.... besides Shepard, of course. 

[Arkus Eon]

Squishy --> Nigh indestructible. The answer to all your questions

 

In all seriousness though, I don't really have answers to any of those questions: I'm not really sure of what the possibilities of adding tech to an organism are. But I suppose the possibilities are endless. 

 

Indestructible skull? Yes please.

Metal infused skin? Yes please, especially to the Volus. (oh... I answered one)

Tech aided muscles? Yes please.

 

Honestly, the possibilities are endless, but we see none of it. There's only so much gene therapy can do, tech can everything else. I find it preposterous we don't see at least a dozen of meka-organisms.... besides Shepard, of course. 

 

I guess it's kind of like Deus Ex - a lot of people would be against bio-synthetic engineering, wondering how many synthetic "upgrades" it takes for someone to become something other than what they used to be.

[Farangbaa]

I guess it's kind of like Deus Ex - a lot of people would be against bio-synthetic engineering, wondering how many synthetic "upgrades" it takes for someone to become something other than what they used to be.

 

And why is it so important you need to be what you were before? 

 

edit: thinking faster than I type.

[Arkus Eon]

And why is it so important you need to be what you were before? 

 

Well, for humans, a lot of people (even today) look at the prospect of bio-synthetic engineering and see extensive modification as a fast track to losing your humanity. You get those people in Deus Ex: Human Revolution who go "aaaghh Adam Jensen you're not one of us anymore lel". I know a number of religious people who would be against it for "playing God", so I'm sure the many religions from the many races of Mass Effect would probably have something somewhere about human/alien engineering. It would explain why we don't see so many super-augmented characters in the games. Shepard had to have it done to be brought back to life, and even then it was Cerberus - a lot of civilians questioned their methods in just about anything they did.

[Farangbaa]

Well, for humans, a lot of people (even today) look at the prospect of bio-synthetic engineering and see extensive modification as a fast track to losing your humanity. You get those people in Deus Ex: Human Revolution who go "aaaghh Adam Jensen you're not one of us anymore lel". I know a number of religious people who would be against it for "playing God", so I'm sure the many religions from the many races of Mass Effect would probably have something somewhere about human/alien engineering. It would explain why we don't see so many super-augmented characters in the games. Shepard had to have it done to be brought back to life, and even then it was Cerberus - a lot of civilians questioned their methods in just about anything they did.

 

And bringing Shepard back to life is not 'playing God'?

 

Honestly, I can see what people would say at first. Buf I can't believe those meaningless arguments ('playing God' and all that crap) still persist after 2000 years of spacefaring (the Asari). Some would still adhere to these views, but they would be a huge minority. Because that's how things like this go: at first a few want it, many oppose it. Then some more want it, a little less oppose it. Then the majority wants it, and the minority doesn't.

 

Compare to: just about anything that has happened in history concerning anything ethical or moral.

[10K]

ME1 I played around 600hrs, ME2 I've replayed and beaten 45 times, and ME3 I've beaten it 5 times.