485 réponses à ce sujet

[durasteel]

Playing up the continuity is the surest way to turn me off of the fourth game.  To me, that would be the very definition of "It's art, deal with it"

 

It's not just Shepard's fate that turned me off about the endings, but the state of the galaxy as a whole.  I have no interest in exploring the outcomes of these options.  I want something where I can at least headcanon my own ending to ME3

 

I totally get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you regarding continuity that "respects" the end of Mass Effect 3. I should have specified that ME4's role would be to establish a continuity that resolves the trilogy in a generally palatable way. Since I regard the end of 3 to largely disregard player agency and previous choices, it does make it a lot easier to embrace moving forward with a "canon" world-state without the need for imports of plot flags.

 

Synthesis, I think quite obviously, is a non-starter. Most of the post-EC galaxy is essentially the same between red and blue, so it should be easy enough to do a little hand-waving and be vague on most of the details. Both Shepard and the Reapers are "gone" without specifics. Liara could have had a Shepard-baby regardless of being romanced (she spent plenty of time in Shep's head, even in the first game.) The Citadel and relays could be restored to status-quo-ante and the galaxy as a whole could be returned to a recognizable state. Quarian, Geth, and Krogan races can be put in whatever state serves the continuing story, and the timeline advanced about a hundred years. Bam, continuity fixed.

 

BioWare describes the ending of 3 as "polarising" and the community as "divided" regarding it. There is some truth to that, but unfortunately the two main camps seem to be "it was horrible" vs. "it wasn't that bad." Among the fan base, there don't even seem to be a statistical rounding error's worth of players who are invested in the ending of 3 in a strongly positive way, such that they would resent almost completely disregarding it in a continuity established in subsequent game.

 

The way I see it, you can either preserve the Mass Effect galaxy, or the "artistic integrity" of the end of ME3. I doubt I have to tell you which one I think is the obvious choice.

[durasteel]

Many people were asking for more exposition and clarity involving the Catalyst and his motivations, though.  

 

BioWare game it to them, instead of changing their intended ending and removing it altogether (which is more than understandable).

 

I understand it, but that doesn't mean I didn't think it was hilarious.

[shepskisaac]

Except for the fact that AC4 was actually a prequel with a decent protagonist, changed quite a bit about the game's infrastructure with the ship battles, and thoroughly revamped the Abstergo current-time story. 

And? Brotherhood had some changes too. Between the actual major changes in 1, 2 and 3 it's clear Black Flag was just as much 'official mod' as Brotherhood or Revelations were.

[CronoDragoon]

It was the next AC game, so it's AC4. If anything subtitled games are stupid.

 

Let's talk about how Code: Veronica is somehow not a proper sequel based on its titling and Nemesis is.

[durasteel]

Well, if you fabricate quotes and then believe them, I'm not surprised you're disappointed.

 

It is an accurate paraphrase. Dr. Ray's response to the negative feedback regarding the ending was to talk about artistic integrity as the justification for a categorical refusal to change the ending beyond some "extended" sequences. The tone and content of his message may, in my opinion, be fairly summarised as "It's art, deal with it."

 

Perhaps you had a different impression. I stand by mine.

[Iakus]

I totally get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you regarding continuity that "respects" the end of Mass Effect 3. I should have specified that ME4's role would be to establish a continuity that resolves the trilogy in a generally palatable way. Since I regard the end of 3 to largely disregard player agency and previous choices, it does make it a lot easier to embrace moving forward with a "canon" world-state without the need for imports of plot flags.

 

Synthesis, I think quite obviously, is a non-starter. Most of the post-EC galaxy is essentially the same between red and blue, so it should be easy enough to do a little hand-waving and be vague on most of the details. Both Shepard and the Reapers are "gone" without specifics. Liara could have had a Shepard-baby regardless of being romanced (she spent plenty of time in Shep's head, even in the first game.) The Citadel and relays could be restored to status-quo-ante and the galaxy as a whole could be returned to a recognizable state. Quarian, Geth, and Krogan races can be put in whatever state serves the continuing story, and the timeline advanced about a hundred years. Bam, continuity fixed.

 

BioWare describes the ending of 3 as "polarising" and the community as "divided" regarding it. There is some truth to that, but unfortunately the two main camps seem to be "it was horrible" vs. "it wasn't that bad." Among the fan base, there don't even seem to be a statistical rounding error's worth of players who are invested in the ending of 3 in a strongly positive way, such that they would resent almost completely disregarding it in a continuity established in subsequent game.

 

The way I see it, you can either preserve the Mass Effect galaxy, or the "artistic integrity" of the end of ME3. I doubt I have to tell you which one I think is the obvious choice.

 

Canonizing Liara having Shepard's baby would likely get a lot of people foaming at the mouth.  Even pro-enders 

[dreamgazer]

And? Brotherhood had some changes too. Between the actual major changes in 1, 2 and 3 it's clear Black Flag was just as much 'official mod' as Brotherhood or Revelations were.

 

I really don't agree, for the reasons listed above.  Ubisoft changed protagonists, changed the modern-day storytelling, and added sea warfare that played a massive part in the game. It's just as much of a new entry as AC3 was, perhaps more so.

[Emphyr]

The way I see it, you can either preserve the Mass Effect galaxy, or the "artistic integrity" of the end of ME3. I doubt I have to tell you which one I think is the obvious choice.

We all are keeping saying Bioware...... But i wonder... is it Bioware?
 Ore is it the artistic EA .. ?

[CronoDragoon]

It is an accurate paraphrase. Dr. Ray's response to the negative feedback regarding the ending was to talk about artistic integrity as the justification for a categorical refusal to change the ending beyond some "extended" sequences. The tone and content of his message may, in my opinion, be fairly summarised as "It's art, deal with it."

 

Perhaps you had a different impression. I stand by mine.

 

I see. So "We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received." and "out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility." means "It's art, deal with it."
 

This is why BW barely said anything at all. Fans only hear what they want to hear.
 

[dreamgazer]

It is an accurate paraphrase.

 

Except for the fact that they incorporated plenty of fan feedback into the free EC, which betrays the "deal with it" part of your paraphrase.  

 

And the fact that they never actually called ME3's ending "art", which betrays the other.  You can swap "artistic integrity" with "creative integrity", and Ray's statement would mean the exact same thing.

[Ryriena]

I'm thinking of the lines if them retaconing the ending to higher EMS destroy with the Geth and EDi alive. It would make the game at least bearable by saying the god brat was lying to you ect. That would make sense.

[themikefest]

Canonizing Liara having Shepard's baby would likely get a lot of people foaming at the mouth.  Even pro-enders 

That would be enough for me to not buy the game and any future ME game.

[durasteel]

Meaning that after the Crucible was fired, we discover that TIM might have been (accidentally) right about destroying the Reapers being the greatest mistake we could make? The obvious down-side is that Bio wanted ME3 to end with a conclusive victory, but I suppose they could have been just wrong about that.

 

It is interesting that you say that, because my impression was that BioWare was less interested in wrapping-up with a conclusive victory and more into blended win-lose scenarios (making sure that almost no one ended with a "perfect" victory.) Not that such a focus necessarily precludes conclusive victories, but it does seem to me that if their main objective was to offer a conclusive resolution there would have been less of a need for the epilog sequences in the extended cut. The "victory" became a lot more conclusive with the EC.

[Iakus]

I'm thinking of the lines if them retaconing the ending to higher EMS destroy with the Geth and EDi alive. It would make the game at least bearable by saying the god brat was lying to you ect. That would make sense.

Would be a a good first step to winning me back.

[durasteel]

Canonizing Liara having Shepard's baby would likely get a lot of people foaming at the mouth.  Even pro-enders 

 

Eh, I don't see why. Based on my limited understanding of Asari reproduction and the fact that there is almost no possible way to end the trilogy without her having mind-melded Shepard on several occasions, it would be hard to argue that it shouldn't be possible.

 

Not saying they should do it, it was just an example of a plot element that might have near-universal applicability.

[Iakus]

Meaning that after the Crucible was fired, we discover that TIM might have been (accidentally) right about destroying the Reapers being the greatest mistake we could make? The obvious down-side is that Bio wanted ME3 to end with a conclusive victory, but I suppose they could have been just wrong about that.

 

And that "conclusive victory" was obviously supposed to be Synthesis.

 

But Bioware so badly misread their audience that I am left to wonder just how out of touch they've grown.

[Daemul]

I'm thinking of the lines if them retaconing the ending to higher EMS destroy with the Geth and EDi alive. It would make the game at least bearable by saying the god brat was lying to you ect. That would make sense.

 

Oh you know, just using the Control ending where they could just say that the Shepalyst and the Reapers left the galaxy for good and there would be no need for all that other fluff. There's no need for Bioware to retcon anything. 

[Obadiah]

You know what? It's art. Deal with it.

[Iakus]

Eh, I don't see why. Based on my limited understanding of Asari reproduction and the fact that there is almost no possible way to end the trilogy without her having mind-melded Shepard on several occasions, it would be hard to argue that it shouldn't be possible.

 

Not saying they should do it, it was just an example of a plot element that might have near-universal applicability.

 

WHile Liara is a popular character, she is not universally loved.

 

Not to mention other unpleasant implications it might have for a nonromanced Liara...

[Daemul]

And that "conclusive victory" was obviously supposed to be Synthesis.

 

But Bioware so badly misread their audience that I am left to wonder just how out of touch they've grown.

 

Well, thankfully most of that crazy audience is gone now, the worst of them anyway, so Bioware can continue down their intended path. 

[dreamgazer]

And that "conclusive victory" was obviously supposed to be Synthesis.

 

But Bioware so badly misread their audience that I am left to wonder just how out of touch they've grown.

 

Eh, you have a conclusive victory in ME2 even if you lost half of your squad in the suicide mission.  

 

Same goes for Control and Destroy, without the option of choosing Synthesis or outright rejecting it. 

[Ryriena]

That would be enough for me to not buy the game and any future ME game.

Same my Shepard would be having Kaiden or Garrus babies thanks.

[Daemul]

Same my Shepard would be having Kaiden or Garrus babies thanks.

 

Garrus babies? What? 

[durasteel]

I see. So "We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received." and "out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility." means "It's art, deal with it."
 

This is why BW barely said anything at all. Fans only hear what they want to hear.
 

 

Yes, Dr. Ray did communicate clearly that he understood that many fans did not like the art in question. Regardless of any acceptance of criticism with humility, however, he made it quite clear that however much polish would be applied in an effort to appease the fans, the turd itself would be preserved. That would be the "artistic integrity of the original story" part.

 

He had a difficult job to do, difficult decisions to make, and all-in-all his statement was as good a bit of PR as might be expected under the circumstances. I have nothing but respect for the man, and I can't say honestly that at that point, dealing with the business realities he had in his lap, I would have done anything differently. I respect his choice to stand behind his creative team and defend them from what were undeniably inappropriate attacks.

 

I can assure you, however, that as a fan his message was certainly not what I wanted to hear.

[Ryriena]

Garrus babies? What?

Adoption