248 réponses à ce sujet

[dragondreamer]

I will always be pro elf, city elf to be specific, while there idea of weakening Orlais until it falls is a bad idea.

 

 

To be exact, Briala isn't trying to make Orlais fall.  She's planning on using the civil war to her advantage, dragging it out to give her time to build her network of both the eluvians and the elves.  City Elves in the Dales were already angry and rebelling before Briala betrayed Celene, and I doubt having Halamshiral mostly burned to the ground has endeared them anymore to their human rulers.  Briala doesn't see the elves winning with either Celene or Gaspard, so she's created a third option because in her own words, "I will fight for the others who have no one to champion their cause."

 

"Which army are you going to hamstring?"

 

Briala looked over at Felassan, smiling, even as she started to shiver from the winter's chill.  "Whichever one seems to be winning.  What was it?  Anaris and Andruil?"

 

Felassan smiled.  "You prolong the fight, and in the chaos, your people work free from their bonds?"

 

"It can work, I think."  Briala held her arms around her.  "Halamshiral rioted because of a single nobleman.  I can find elves who will help me with my work in every city in Orlais, and more who are too afraid to fight, but will serve as eyes and ears if I can help their children survive the winter."

 

[wcholcombe]

1st I voted Celene and not the elves.

 

2nd the comments in this topic are hilarious.  Celene is corrupt but Gaspard isn't??  Let us recall Gaspard attempted to assassinate Celene on a hunt(the empress who he has sworn fealty to), attempted to bait the Ferelden Ambassador into being insulted into a duel which would have likely caused a war, rebels against said empress, admittedly in his own words views elves as less then human, etc.

 

Neither of them is more honorable of corrupt than the other.  They are two sides of a coin.  Celene is the political progressive and Gaspard is the millitaristic/tactical traditionalist.  Celene wants to continue building universities and improve lives for the elves and all people in Orlais, Gaspard wants to maintain the status quo and return Orlais to its imperial expansionist past.  The idea that one is corrupt and one is honorable is laughable, they both are back stabbing players of the game or they wouldn't have survived this long.

 

Briala herself is arguably a bigger player of the game than both of them, given her disappointment that Celene didn't take the opportunity to kill Gaspard when she had the chance after they killed the Arcane Horror.

 

As for the elves of orlais and Briala's plans.  We don't truly know what her ultimate goal is.  She has by her own words limited her interest to the elves of orlais, she will take the help of the Dalish-if they come asking, but she claimed the Eluvians for the elves of Orlais. Not elves everywhere, not all elves, not dalish, Elves of Orlais.

 

What do the Elves of Orlais actually want?  Based off the events in Halamshiral they want to be treated as equal citizens of Orlais, not be independent.  The entire thing would have gone away if the Noble who killed the city elf had been charged and punished for killing said elf, current orlesian society doesn't allow that.

 

But the quote: ""You prolong the fight, and in the chaos, your people work free from their bonds?""

 

Doesn't mean independence, many cultures and races have worked free of their bonds while remaining members of the nation that had previously held them in said bondage.  The city elves of Orlais view themselves as orlesian and want equal treatment, just as the slaves of the pre civil war U.S. considered themselves Americans and had no interest in founding a new country in Africa.  Ultimately I think that is what will happen.

[Dean_the_Young]

Likely...but highly entertaining to watch nonetheless. And given I know nothing about the two candidates I cannot say it would be much worse.

 

Morrigan strikes me as the type to think and act like she can survive on her wits, knowing herself to be more intelligent than most, and then being pretty abruptly assassinated by means or maneuverings she was totally ignorant about.

[Dean_the_Young]

Not officially confirmed if we will, but it never hurts to discuss who we want to rule.

 

Cue the chorus of 'my Inquisitor.'

[Mister Gusty]

 

2nd the comments in this topic are hilarious.  Celene is corrupt but Gaspard isn't??  Let us recall Gaspard attempted to assassinate Celene on a hunt(the empress who he has sworn fealty to)

 

I took a section of one of my responses from the "Her Imperial Radiance, Empress Celene I," thread, as I feel it is relevant to this particular section of your post.

 

"You do realise that the only reason Celene took power was because she was party to the assassination of the previous emperor. Lady Mantillon was Emperor Florians mistress, and killed him so that Celene, could take power, and Celene was aware of that. So Gaspard doing essentially the same thing, except that he would be doing the deed himself is on par with what Celene did, if not slightly better as he is willing to act himself instead of using a third party."

 

I also went on to say that while I am not a supporter of either, Celene or Gaspard, they both have done equally reprehensible things to gain, and maintain their power.

So that particular point, is not really relevant as Celene has done the same to the Emperor that she had sworn fealty to.

[dragondreamer]

I think if Briala was interested in simple social reform, she would have remained with Celene, who was the best chance for doing so.  Briala abandoned that path, which was what she had been invested in until she lost faith in Celene.  The elves are certainly not going to rule Orlais, so there's no way that's the plan either.  And do we know the City Elves wouldn't turn on Orlais if presented with something better, as easily as elves in Kirkwall would defect to the Qun?  

 

Briala hadn't allowed herself to think it before, when she'd ridden into town with Felassan and seen the poor elves who fancied themselves rebels.  [...]  In their naivete, they had been talking about Halamshiral belonging to the elves again.

 

 

There's an undercurrent of this sentiment from the City Elves.  I'm not assuming the elves will be able to retake the Dales, but if it's possible to try, my Dalish Inquisitor will try.  It's a hypothetical as much as declaring who we'd put on the Orlesian throne.  Without hard facts about actual game content, that's what this entire discussion is about.  Even if I can't do what I would like to do, I'm still more interested in helping the elves than the Orlesian nobles.

 

When it comes to characters that might throw us for a loop in transition from novel to the game, I'm a little more concerned about what's going on with Celene.  What kind of "dark magic" is Morrigan teaching her?  Celene seems to enjoy enchanted doodads, so it might not be much of anything, but it worries me a bit.  When it comes to choosing between Celene and Gaspard for the Orlesian throne, currently I find it easier to choose Celene.  So I wouldn't be surprised if the game decides to make it more difficult somehow... 

[General TSAR]

Of the three, I find Gaspard the least objectionable, so I'd put him on the throne if marrying him to Celene for co-rulership isn't an option.

 

If the Elves went extinct due to falling in love with humans and interbreeding, I wouldn't miss them.

+1

[OctagonalSquare]

The city elves of Orlais view themselves as orlesian and want equal treatment, just as the slaves of the pre civil war U.S. considered themselves Americans and had no interest in founding a new country in Africa.

Except that happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia

 

Granted, this was basically the whites' idea, and most blacks stayed in America. The Dalish and the Dales make a better parallel for African slaves and Liberia. The Orlesian elves are more like the civil rights activists of the 1950-60s.

[MisterJB]

What do the Elves of Orlais actually want?  Based off the events in Halamshiral they want to be treated as equal citizens of Orlais, not be independent.  The entire thing would have gone away if the Noble who killed the city elf had been charged and punished for killing said elf, current orlesian society doesn't allow that.

The leader of the Halamshiral rebellion was very outspoken about his wish to see the humans driven from the Dales both during and before the rebellion. Plus, the second chapter of the book tells us how there was a discussion by elves about how elves used to rule the city hundred of years ago.

 

Of course, the Dales used to be an elven nation and remained majority elven even after the Orlesian conquest. The sentiments there will certainly be different than those in Val-Royeaux.

[DV-01]

The Qunari vanguard will rain down upon Orlais.

[nihiliste]

Destroy Orlais's political structure and leave it open for invasion.

[SomberXIII]

1. I'll choose Empress Celene.
2. Crush Gaspard's forces. Execute them if they deny surrender.
3. Negotiate with elves. Give them the Dales.
4. Qunari. No more rampage! I still hate that you had got a lot of screentime in DA2.

If these pesky elves are still ungrateful, I'll push them into extinction.

[TK514]

Actually it's the other way around. Celene is the one who cares for the elves. Gaspard doesn't care for them at all. Plus Celene has to keep a promise she made with Briala, even if it is slowly.

She absolutely doesn't have to keep her promise to Briala. The entire reason Briala turns on her in the end is because everyone in that cavern knows Celene isn't going to keep her promises regarding the Elves.

[Helios969]

Morrigan strikes me as the type to think and act like she can survive on her wits, knowing herself to be more intelligent than most, and then being pretty abruptly assassinated by means or maneuverings she was totally ignorant about.

Flemeth would never allow it.

[DrBlingzle]

Sooooo...

When do we get to see the results of the survey?

[Annihilator27]

I was with the empress until towards the end of T.M.E, Im all in with the Grand Duke. That man's code of honor

[Hugebull]

I wish the Dales would go to the elves, but how successful would this be? 

 

None of the City Elves has ruled...anything... Then all of a sudden handing over power to a bunch of uneducated commoners? And what about the humans in the Dales? will they be subjugated by the Elves now? Or would you demand these people to abandon their homes? You can't simple turn on acceptance and make a multicultural society work over night. 

 

And talking about cultural, the City Elves don't really have a culture anymore. They are simple people living in cities, and the only difference between them and humans are their looks. 

 

The City Elves would probably split off into a bunch of different factions and would oppose each other. And then fight over control. 

 

The Dalish don't really want anything to do with the City Elves, and even if some of the clans join the City Elves, they would never be viewed as equals. And Dalish keepers would seize power, either by force or by City Elves worshiping these Elves of legends as deities.

 

 

 

Then there is Celene and Gaspard.

 

I don't want any of these people to rule. Celene does whatever she has to do to stay in power, playing the game. Doing what she is good at. And she is not the person to heal Orlais from the disease which is its nobility. 

 

Orlais is very much like Kings Landing, the political struggle is slowly killing of the most powerful nation in Thedas. 

 

 

Then there is Gaspard. He does have the strength and will to make reform. But I can't help but comparing him to Hitler. He is strong, military supports him, he is a warmonger and he could care less what happens with the elves. Even though he sees how THEY could be USED with the Eluvians.

 

 

I don't see a bright future for Orlais. After reading all the books and playing Dragon Age: Origins, I have no love for the nation at all. 

 

On the surface their cities might look shiny and beautiful, but under the shell it is rotten to the core. 

 

 

We hear stories about the Chevalier, and how they do as their please. Taking whatever women they want wherever they go, doing as they please and are generally above the law. 

 

Trivia from the Dragon Age Wiki:

"In Orlais, an informal final test of a Chevalier's training involves roaming the streets, intoxicated, and testing one's blade by killing City elves." 

 

 

I approve of Ferelden. Its not the best place to live and raise a family, and is far from perfect. But its raw and real. And is generally a fairer society. 

 

But Orlais? I would feel nothing to see it burnt to the ground. Hopefully since it has similarities to France, we will see a revolution. And the entire nobility would be put to the Guillotine.

 

 

But in a perfect world? I would love for the Dales to be give to the Elves, and the City Elves and Dalish would unite. And then Orlais can have a revolution, and with its now lesser power they can no longer threaten the world with their might. And the Dales would be between Ferelden and the Republic of Orlais.

 

And a lovely Union between Ferelden, Orzammar and Elvhenan / New Arlathan / Whatever name they chose. To be the strongest force in Thedas rabblerabblerabble and so on. 

 

But this is Thedas, so this probably won't happen.

[wcholcombe]

But Celene is already instituting reforms. She has ushered in a golden age for culture in Orlais and made it the preimenent culture capital of Thedas. She is a reformist and she has already made things better for the elves.  She can only do things in degrees, but she at least is doing things.

 

Gaspard has no interest in reforms. He is a traditionalist.  He loves the game and its intrigue.  He played off the nobles about their concern about the thoughts that the the university that Celene founded was putting in to the heads of their children about elves being equal.  He likes things exactly as they are and the only reforms he is interested in are restoring Orlais to its expansionist roots.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is a great deal about Gaspard I like, but the idea that he would be the one to institute reforms and Celene wouldn't is laughable considering Celene has a long track record of reforms for the elves and even against the nobility.  Yes she plays the game to stay in power, but that is what she has to do to reform orlais.

 

You do know that there is a law in Ferelden making it illegal to kill a human to protect an elf right?  Just because DAO made this rosey presentation doesn't make Ferelden this great country. I am going to be interested to see how people react when they find out in DAI that some of the anti Orlais propaganda from DAO isn't accurate.

 

As for the elves, did ya miss the part where Fellesan says that Tevinter and now Orlais society is modeled on exactly what Arlathan(elven) society was prior to the humans coming?  The elves aren't any better then anyone else.  The Dalish are just as racist and just as descriminatory as the rest of the races on thedas. 

 

As for the City Elves, they have no idea of being independent.  They have lived for generations-centuries actually as part of Orlais. Their culture is largely orlesian, their religion is Chantry, their language is human, etc.  The point is they view themselves as orlesian and I think that is how it ultimately goes.  I could be wrong, but I don't see the city elves of orlais becoming independent nor do I see them partnering up with the dalish.  Anymore then I would see dropping African Americans who grew up in the U.S. into the middle of zimbabwe and expecting them to suddenly acclimate to a radically different culture.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Gaspard actually hates the Game and it's intrigue. He's less likely to want to reform the lives of elves but he has more distaste for the politics of Orlais than Celene does.

 

Also, Felassan does not say Tevinter modeled on Arlathan.

[TheKomandorShepard]

But Celene is already instituting reforms. She has ushered in a golden age for culture in Orlais and made it the preimenent culture capital of Thedas. She is a reformist and she has already made things better for the elves.  She can only do things in degrees, but she at least is doing things.

 

Gaspard has no interest in reforms. He is a traditionalist.  He loves the game and its intrigue.  He played off the nobles about their concern about the thoughts that the the university that Celene founded was putting in to the heads of their children about elves being equal.  He likes things exactly as they are and the only reforms he is interested in are restoring Orlais to its expansionist roots.

 

Don't get me wrong, there is a great deal about Gaspard I like, but the idea that he would be the one to institute reforms and Celene wouldn't is laughable considering Celene has a long track record of reforms for the elves and even against the nobility.  Yes she plays the game to stay in power, but that is what she has to do to reform orlais.

 

You do know that there is a law in Ferelden making it illegal to kill a human to protect an elf right?  Just because DAO made this rosey presentation doesn't make Ferelden this great country. I am going to be interested to see how people react when they find out in DAI that some of the anti Orlais propaganda from DAO isn't accurate.

 

As for the elves, did ya miss the part where Fellesan says that Tevinter and now Orlais society is modeled on exactly what Arlathan(elven) society was prior to the humans coming?  The elves aren't any better then anyone else.  The Dalish are just as racist and just as descriminatory as the rest of the races on thedas. 

 

As for the City Elves, they have no idea of being independent.  They have lived for generations-centuries actually as part of Orlais. Their culture is largely orlesian, their religion is Chantry, their language is human, etc.  The point is they view themselves as orlesian and I think that is how it ultimately goes.  I could be wrong, but I don't see the city elves of orlais becoming independent nor do I see them partnering up with the dalish.  Anymore then I would see dropping African Americans who grew up in the U.S. into the middle of zimbabwe and expecting them to suddenly acclimate to a radically different culture.

She made life of elves better sorry but in what way? On my she did very little as she is weak ruler that will bend to nobles not otherwise another part is how much she cares about elves instead simple making demands one she is sleeping with just for that sake.Gaspard is much stronger person that will eradicate corruption sure he won't make life of elves better but in the future his work may make it easier.Celene on other hand is corrupted and promotes corrupted system her irrelevant reforms that do little will be no blood magic rule in tevinter ant that assuming that she will actually make reforms because she seems bend to other nobles in fear.  

 

No one said that ferelden is perfect it is flawed country but as far most sane , fair and best for to you live in. Well because that rule in orlais isn't common from what i saw orlais treats their elves at least 2 times worse than ferelden not meetion that situation there is so bad that there are constant riots. What propaganda? even orlesians confirmed that "propaganda".

[klebaart]

She made life of elves better sorry but in what way? On my she did very little as she is weak ruler that will bend to nobles not otherwise another part is how much she cares about elves instead simple making demands one she is sleeping with just for that sake.Gaspard is much stronger person that will eradicate corruption sure he won't make life of elves better but in the future his work may make it easier.Celene on other hand is corrupted and promotes corrupted system her irrelevant reforms that do little will be no blood magic rule in tevinter ant that assuming that she will actually make reforms because she seems bend to other nobles in fear.  

 

No one said that ferelden is perfect it is flawed country but as far most sane , fair and best for to you live in. Well because that rule in orlais isn't common from what i saw orlais treats their elves at least 2 times worse than ferelden not meetion that situation there is so bad that there are constant riots. What propaganda? even orlesians confirmed that "propaganda".

Celene used deceit and lies many times during her reign but once again who wouldn't ? Whether you enjoy playing the Game or not does not matter since, given the current state of Orlesian society, you can't deal without it, and even Gaspard knows that. It is a tool that you have to use if you want to get the support of the nobility. You can't expect any ruler to deal with all the problems Orlais is going through (Mage-Templar war, city and Dalish elves, foreign politics...) all by oneself so either they focus their attention on changing the way nobility works, either they use the nobles' help to deal with immediate matters, which are much more dangerous for the country in my opinion.

Moreover you keep saying Celene is weak and ineffective but your point is solely based on the events taking place in tME, where nothing is going as she planned. However, it was stated several times during the book that her reign resurrected Orlais. You can disagree with her methods but the country would still be as rotted as it was during Ferelden's occupation if it wasn't for her. You're saying Gaspard's work would make the future easier for his successors but that's what Celene has already been doing for 20 years. You also said that Gaspard would eradicate corruption and put an end to the Game but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it is ever mentioned he said that. I think he just does not like the fact that such methods are necessary in his fight for power, and that he cannot use coercion and deception as well as his opponents since he's following his chevalier code, but still acknowledges their usefulness. I'm not saying Gaspard would be a bad ruler but I'm convinced, based on what Celene has achieved so far, that she should keep the throne : whatever her reasons she made things better than they were before for elves, she improved the university etc. and you can't deny all that.

I think Briala is being a bit selfish and self-centered when she seems to forget all that. She's forgetting what it takes to rule a country. Celene killing her parents resulted in Orlais getting an empress who made the whole country a better place than under the reign of her predecessors. She can hate her for what she did but cannot deny that it was a "the many above the few" move and that she has always been a good empress. Moreover I don't see the point of holding a big middle finger in the face of the humans as soon as she gets a little bit (a quite large bit I must admit) of power, since she will have to deal with human leaders pretty soon. I mean it's not like a little diplomacy would cost her anything.

 

Anyway this discussion is about who would rule Orlais the best and I believe that in order to answer this question you can't think about motives and moral but only about facts. And if you're looking back at Celene's whole reign it's pretty simple: peace, wealth, education, and less oppression for the elves. And that's better than whatever the other are promising.

 

I hope I've been clear enough since English is not my native language. Pardon me if it's a little confuse

[Mistress9Nine]

I really couldn't agree more with klebarrt. I do not understand Gaspard's motivation at all. Orlais has never been stronger. His trethchery only serves to weaken the country and expose it to the Imperium and "Dog lords" he despises so. And I never got why it was just handwaved that he betrays his nation, but then preaches about honor. "Oh look at me, I'm not wearing my coat of arms because I'm commiting treason, but that just makes me that much more honorable." I was like WTF. Gaspard is selfish and power-hungry and only cares for his personal glory, while Celene actually seems to care about her subjects and the legacy she leaves behind. Her methods are no different than any other noble's in Orlais, but she uses her power to do good.

 

Celene is clearly the better ruler in my opinion.

 

As for the elves? i love fantasy elves in general and DA's tragic elves with their rich and mysterious lore all some of the best, but do I want them to make a comeback? Not really, at least not in this form. A tiny portion of land or an bann for the alienage a la Origins epilogue is nice, but I think if their underdog status is part of their charm. Mind you I wouldn't mind if they had something good happen to them finally. Clans and alienages are always being wiped out left and right in the DA games and books. Hopefully they'll catch a break.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Celene used deceit and lies many times during her reign but once again who wouldn't ? Whether you enjoy playing the Game or not does not matter since, given the current state of Orlesian society, you can't deal without it, and even Gaspard knows that. It is a tool that you have to use if you want to get the support of the nobility. You can't expect any ruler to deal with all the problems Orlais is going through (Mage-Templar war, city and Dalish elves, foreign politics...) all by oneself so either they focus their attention on changing the way nobility works, either they use the nobles' help to deal with immediate matters, which are much more dangerous for the country in my opinion.

Moreover you keep saying Celene is weak and ineffective but your point is solely based on the events taking place in tME, where nothing is going as she planned. However, it was stated several times during the book that her reign resurrected Orlais. You can disagree with her methods but the country would still be as rotted as it was during Ferelden's occupation if it wasn't for her. You're saying Gaspard's work would make the future easier for his successors but that's what Celene has already been doing for 20 years. You also said that Gaspard would eradicate corruption and put an end to the Game but (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it is ever mentioned he said that. I think he just does not like the fact that such methods are necessary in his fight for power, and that he cannot use coercion and deception as well as his opponents since he's following his chevalier code, but still acknowledges their usefulness. I'm not saying Gaspard would be a bad ruler but I'm convinced, based on what Celene has achieved so far, that she should keep the throne : whatever her reasons she made things better than they were before for elves, she improved the university etc. and you can't deny all that.

I think Briala is being a bit selfish and self-centered when she seems to forget all that. She's forgetting what it takes to rule a country. Celene killing her parents resulted in Orlais getting an empress who made the whole country a better place than under the reign of her predecessors. She can hate her for what she did but cannot deny that it was a "the many above the few" move and that she has always been a good empress. Moreover I don't see the point of holding a big middle finger in the face of the humans as soon as she gets a little bit (a quite large bit I must admit) of power, since she will have to deal with human leaders pretty soon. I mean it's not like a little diplomacy would cost her anything.

 

Anyway this discussion is about who would rule Orlais the best and I believe that in order to answer this question you can't think about motives and moral but only about facts. And if you're looking back at Celene's whole reign it's pretty simple: peace, wealth, education, and less oppression for the elves. And that's better than whatever the other are promising.

 

I hope I've been clear enough since English is not my native language. Pardon me if it's a little confuse

You can if you are strong orlesian game follow orlesian rule but every other rule can't challange primary "might makes right". Sorry but i don't see how she changed orlesians she didn't we have old corrupted system as it was before she only promoted that she is in fact weak.She may big talk about her reforms but in fact 20 year and she did nothing well nothing revelant.Only thing i would argue is anti-slavery move but only time will be tell if she put only anti-slavery rule or actually stopped slavery i m going with first.Celene never will be able pull any revelant reform and even if she pulls with that corruption it will be "no blood magic in tevinter".Everything Celene did was for power or to please her lover nothing more.

[Dean_the_Young]

Gaspard actually hates the Game and it's intrigue. He's less likely to want to reform the lives of elves but he has more distaste for the politics of Orlais than Celene does.

 

 

 

It's better to say that Gaspard is a conservative rather than a traditionalist, and while he isn't a reformer he isn't a reactionary who wants to roll back Celene's reforms either. He doesn't actually express any personal dislike of Celene's reforms- he just thinks that Celene's overall model of governance and direction (such as the attitude towards the Chantry and handling of the Mage-Templar issue) is weak and that Orlais needs strength.

 

He certainly doesn't have any reason to push for reforms, no elven lover or Celene's sympathies, but he doesn't have reasons to oppose them either. In fact, one of his character moments is his willingness to accept an elf as a Chavalier. Gaspard wouldn't push reforms without reason that benefits him... but he'd be well in character to accept reforms as part of a bargain that does benefit him.

[Hugebull]

The problem is really in its origin when it comes to the issues with Celene. To rule the rotten apple which is Orlais you need to play the game, and you need to be the master of the game. If you're not, you'll end up dead. You're either a pushover or the master. 

 

Celene is great at the game, and all she does is play the game. Celene couldn't care less for the elves, the only reason she poked at the issue was because of Briala. If Celene had never met her she would have the average Orlesian noble view on elves. Lesser beings. 

 

She actually likes the game, which is one of the reasons I really can't stand her. I mean, look at how she reacted when she learned the truth of Michel. Even though he had been her champion for many years. After all those years of service, the origin of Michel's birth should have been irrelevant... If she was as genuine as she wants us to believe. 

 

 

Then there is Gaspard. oh Gaspard. 

 

Problem with him is that he has a vague definition of honor. What he personally think is right, he will deem honorable, what he doesn't like he will deem dishonorable. If he was as honorable as he think he is, and as honorable as he wants the world to think he is. He would never have attacked Celene, even if he thought it was for the good of the nation. 

 

He stripped his armor of markings, because it would be wrong to have them on while starting a civil war... But ambushing your empress and starting it, no that's fine. He alters his definition of honor as he goes along, to suit whatever he thinks he has to do next. 

 

But, on the other hand. He is strong and has the support of the military. He has the power to overrule the nobility and actually change it. As I said in my previous post, I do draw some similarities between Gaspard and Hitler. But I can't help but feel there is a dash of Napoleon in him as well. If Gaspard has to, he can reduce and diminish the power of the nobility if he has to. For whatever reason.

 

Celene can not. She trades this for that, push that guy towards that guy, but she would never have a landslide behind her to actually change anything drasticly. In 20 years she did what? Put a few high up commoners in the university? And talk about having elves attend? Celene is good at staying in power, but that is about it. Which is the problem with Orlais. And it is a problem we have in modern day politics as well. The good guy and the good ruler usually does not have what it takes to gain power, the sly and cunning liar has what it takes. Which is a big problem. 

 

And then there is Briala, she did a Theon Greyjoy and got the taste of power and it went straight to her head. She is only good at backstabbing, nothing else. 

 

 

So overall? Let Orlais burn.