189 réponses à ce sujet

[Deflagratio]

yeap. here is the thing. achievement actually lost its meaning.

For example Dark Souls 2. I have a "Dark Soul" achievement, problem is that this achievement have no value because you just receive this by playing the game without any work done in order to get it.

 

So in my understanding achievement should be some kind of indication of efforts by the player. But as it now, in most of the games, achievement or trophy is just indication that player has reached some point in the game.

 

In my undestanding beheading a dragon takes more efforts in terms of preparation, tactics. Rather than listening the npc in order to "romance" this character. Or to get some kind of medal just for buying a gear or as mentioned above by changing day/night cycle.

 

Well atleast in ME3 there is only one achievement for "romance" instead of... 4 or 5 (?) in DAO.

 

So then you submit that only your standard of effort is valid? Am I interpreting this correctly? Because I thought pulling a romance was harder than killing a Dragon in DA:O.

[Althix]

and how did you came to such conclusion?

 

My point is, that achievements as it now only indicate the progression, not the effort. So Fast Jimmy is actually right.

[themikefest]

I don't mind.

 

In ME, the only romance trophy I got with my femshep is in ME3 with Samantha. She has never romanced anyone else.  When I wanted paramour trophy in ME1/ME2 i played as maleshep.

 

Depending on who is a romance, I might do the same as what I did for the ME trilogy.

[Fast Jimmy]

and how did you came to such conclusion?
 
My point is, that achievements as it now only indicate the progression, not the effort. So Fast Jimmy is actually right.

Woo-hoo! Yeah! One to nothing!

[TurretSyndrome]

Sidequests don't force you down a particular route that may have nothing to do with the character you want to play. 

 

Romances do not force you down a path either. They are optional, so whatever path you're walking, you're doing it on your own accord. I'm assuming this is about the sexuality thing? Because I know I had problems doing Zevran's romance as a guy, just to get that achievement.

[addiction21]

Woo-hoo! Yeah! One to nothing!

 

I am suddenly reminded about a broken clock and it being right

[AkiKishi]

Romances do not force you down a path either. They are optional, so whatever path you're walking, you're doing it on your own accord. I'm assuming this is about the sexuality thing? Because I know I had problems doing Zevran's romance as a guy, just to get that achievement.

 

Once you put them in the trophy list they are not exactly optional since the trophy requires them. A sidequest trophy you can do with any race/class or whatever. 

Trophies should be gameplay oriented and there is no game play in "gota **** 'em all" type collector romances. 

 

If they want to copy ME3 I'm ok with that. It's less crass.

[Wulfram]

I agree with the OP.

 

And if you do have an achievement, don't have it necessarily tied to doing the horizontal tango.

[daveliam]

Romances do not force you down a path either. They are optional, so whatever path you're walking, you're doing it on your own accord. I'm assuming this is about the sexuality thing? Because I know I had problems doing Zevran's romance as a guy, just to get that achievement.

 

Then why did you romance Zev as a guy?  You get the achievement for romancing Zev regardless of who you use to romance him.  As far as I know, there haven't been any achievements directly linked to s/s romance, right?

[berelinde]

there is a difference.

in the first case "romance x" it is on the go achievement.

"to kill a dragon" is an achievement with some effort behind it.

 

both of them represent learned content of the game, but value of these achievements are different. well from the emotional side of view.

Nope.

 

"Kill a dragon" may actually require less effort than romance achievements. With the dragon killing thing, failure lasts only as long as it takes to reload the autosave. As long as they know how to work "Main Menu," literally anyone can beat a dragon. Romancing a character takes some actual effort, as mistakes may not be corrected so easily. Consider this: I wanted to romance Fenris on one playthrough, but I said something nice to Isabela very early in Act 2, and now, he doesn't want to hear about it. I'd reload, but that was ages ago.

 

I see very little point in awarding an achievement for something where success is only a question of knowing how to reload the game.

 

Ultimately, it's the same old, tired argument. You want your playing style and gaming preferences to be rewarded. You want to feel as if you are playing the game right and those who enjoy different things are playing it wrong. Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Roleplaying achievements are just as valid as combat ones.

[9TailsFox]

Sidequests don't force you down a particular route that may have nothing to do with the character you want to play. 

Yes it force you, Example in DA Crows give you quest to kill someone. And what if you play character who don't kill for no reason.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Then why did you romance Zev as a guy?  You get the achievement for romancing Zev regardless of who you use to romance him.  As far as I know, there haven't been any achievements directly linked to s/s romance, right?

I got every trophy for DA:O, DA2 & ME2, there weren't any for S/S only romance. I just imagine the huge rage by certain gamers if they had do gay romances for trophies/achievements.

[TurretSyndrome]

Once you put them in the trophy list they are not exactly optional since the trophy requires them. A sidequest trophy you can do with any race/class or whatever. 

Trophies should be gameplay oriented and there is no game play in "gota **** 'em all" type collector romances. 

 

If they want to copy ME3 I'm ok with that. It's less crass.

 

If you're argument was just against romance achievements for each LI, I would agree with you, but that is not the case. You believe that achievements should only be awarded for things which take effort. So between romances and dragon-slaying, you believe that dragon-slaying should be the one that can be awarded an achievement. I'm sorry, but that line of thought is not right.

 

Completing a romance means following a path and being dedicated to it. That dedication is a form of effort and for that effort, you are awarded an achievement. It may not take the kind of effort you feel it should, but it is effort nevertheless. Achievements are also, like the others have said, checkpoints to different parts of the game's content. They are there to drive players towards whatever content that can be easily missed, as well as to encourage them to explore different aspects of the game.

 

Romance should have achievements irrespective of the characters that are romanced so players aren't forced to romance the characters that of a different sexuality than the player-character.

 

 

Then why did you romance Zev as a guy?  You get the achievement for romancing Zev regardless of who you use to romance him.  As far as I know, there haven't been any achievements directly linked to s/s romance, right?

 

Yes, you only had to romance that character, the game didn't care which gender you used to do that. If I remember correctly, I was at the friendship point with Zevran already where I could turn it into romance, so I decided I'd say the words and hit ESC as fast as I can, which I did. I just didn't want to create a new character and playthrough the whole game just so I could avoid a moment of discomfort.

[Dio Demon]

I got every trophy for DA:O, DA2 & ME2, there weren't any for S/S only romance. I just imagine the huge rage by certain gamers if they had do gay romances for trophies/achievements.

Cue the "You're shoving the agenda down our throats!", "We aren't going to just swallow this!" and "Stop putting it in our faces" 'arguments'

[berelinde]

I got every trophy for DA:O, DA2 & ME2, there weren't any for S/S only romance. I just imagine the huge rage by certain gamers if they had do gay romances for trophies/achievements.

My inner troll wants this.

 

More mature aspects of my personality remind me that setting up a mechanism to exclude *any* player group (even a pampered one) is probably not the best way to go.

[Althix]

I see very little point in awarding an achievement for something where success is only a question of knowing how to reload the game.

this is also the truth. which  is actually enforce my point of view.

 

There is a achievement in DA2, collect all crafting materials. Which you can't get unless you force yourself to endure Isabela for the rest of the game. This is a situation when achievement is botched very bad.

 

And you also may be right, that for example "romance" achievement is harder to get than a kill achievement. But in the end it's just a matter for playing the game. On your next playthrough you just pick another line in dialogue and here you are.

 

So achievement system only indicates progression and maybe replayability of the product, not actual effort.

 

For example there is a ring in Dark Souls 2 which you can only get by not using any of the bonfires in the game. This is just an item, not some achievement.

[daveliam]

I got every trophy for DA:O, DA2 & ME2, there weren't any for S/S only romance. I just imagine the huge rage by certain gamers if they had do gay romances for trophies/achievements.

 

Where was those people's outrage in ME 2 when I had a choice between a straight romance or not getting the achievement?  No where?  So it makes me wonder what the issue really would be about.....?  Also, I didn't see a giant backlash from the LGBT community about that achievement.  Over the lack of s/s options, yes.  But over the achievement?  Nope.

 

 

Yes, you only had to romance that character, the game didn't care which gender you used to do that. If I remember correctly, I was at the friendship point with Zevran already where I could turn it into romance, so I decided I'd say the words and hit ESC as fast as I can, which I did. I just didn't want to create a new character and playthrough the whole game just so I could avoid a moment of discomfort.

 

 

Well then, respectfully, you created your own  "problem" for convenience sake. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Cue the "You're shoving the agenda down our throats!", "We aren't going to just swallow this!" and "Stop putting it in our faces" 'arguments'

That wouldn't seem different then what BW gets now tbh, people already criticise them saying their pushing the "gay agenda" even without S/S specific romance trophies/achievements

[TurretSyndrome]

Well then, respectfully, you created your own  "problem" for convenience sake. 

 

How so? I'd still have to create a female character and play as the female character the entire game to get to him, and I never play as a female. Even then, I'd still be romancing a guy with my character. So, from where I stand, I just swapped two problems the game created for me, with one uneasy sequence.

[Mister Gusty]

I don't mind when there is a trophy for romancing a person ,so long as it is a general " you did a romance," trophy, but I didn't like the way in Origins there were trophies for individual characters as I had to start a brand new playthrough specifically to get the Alistair trophy, which was annoying.

 

It wasn't because I never made any female characters, it was just I really didn't like Alistairs character enough to be bothered with a romance, and it was the last trophy I needed for Platinum, all the other romances were fine for both my male and female characters, I just don't like being forced to romance a specific person.

 

I am assuming though that Inquisition will be doing the trophy/achievement for just doing any romance, so there really shouldn't be a problem assuming people are going to do more than one playthrough, which is kinda necessary to get all the trophies/achievements for a game like this anyway.

[Oswin]

The stuff I've done for the sake of trophy collecting is so ridiculous that I never really thought twice about doing a playthrough of DAO just to romance Morrigan and Leliana  ​ I used that playthrough to pick up all the trophies for all the other options I never liked to do as well anyway (like picking Loghain, siding with the werewolves, the Templars and defiling the ashes).

I can see how individual trophies like that in DAO are a bit of a pain but I honestly can't see a problem with just the one romance trophy. It's a part of the game. Trophy lists usually reward the player for exploring every part, even the annoying bits.

 

 

..Then again I can't criticise too much because I unlocked two trophies in Origins after I completed it for the first time, that I shouldn't have and it meant I didn't have to do two things that I didn't really want to do. Awesome glitch was awesome 

[Ryzaki]

My inner troll wants this.

 

More mature aspects of my personality remind me that setting up a mechanism to exclude *any* player group (even a pampered one) is probably not the best way to go.

 

Same. Inwardly I cackle at the thought of some poor soul going DA GAMERSCORE and forcing themselves to do it but yeah there should just be one romance achievement and it applies for all the LIs.
 

How so? I'd still have to create a female character and play as the female character the entire game to get to him, and I never play as a female. Even then, I'd still be romancing a guy with my character. So, from where I stand, I just swapped two problems the game created for me, with one uneasy sequence.

 

Yeah either a few minutes of annoyance or 40 hours and it's pretty clear what wins out.

[TurretSyndrome]

That wouldn't seem different then what BW gets now tbh, people already criticise them saying their pushing the "gay agenda" even without S/S specific romance trophies/achievements

 

Calling it "gay agenda" is certainly extreme, but it's a valid argument if someone feels that there shouldn't be character-specific romance achievements because that would force them to follow a particular romance that may not accommodate their gender and sexuality.

 

So yeah, I wouldn't want to go through the pain of romancing a gay or a bisexual male character because I want to have 100% completion. Instead, I would much rather appreciate it if the game just counted the romance I chose and awarded me with the "romance completed" achievement.

[Fast Jimmy]

Calling it "gay agenda" is certainly extreme, but it's a valid argument if someone feels that there shouldn't be character-specific romance achievements because that would force them to follow a particular romance that may not accommodate their gender and sexuality.
 
So yeah, I wouldn't want to go through the pain of romancing a gay or a bisexual male character because I want to have 100% completion. Instead, I would much rather appreciate it if the game just counted the romance I chose and awarded me with the "romance completed" achievement.

But then how could one ever get the "Mailbox Romanced" achievement for having sex with a vessel for the parcel service? THAT'S the issue at hand here!

[daveliam]

Calling it "gay agenda" is certainly extreme, but it's a valid argument if someone feels that there shouldn't be character-specific romance achievements because that would force them to follow a particular romance that may not accommodate their gender and sexuality.

 

So yeah, I wouldn't want to go through the pain of romancing a gay or a bisexual male character because I want to have 100% completion. Instead, I would much rather appreciate it if the game just counted the romance I chose and awarded me with the "romance completed" achievement.

 

Slightly off topic:  Well, gay and lesbian players have been told over and over that we just need to suck it up and play the opposite gender if we want to romance Alistair, Morrigan, Sebastian, Ashley, Miranda, Jack, Tali, Jacob, Thane, Garrus, Dawn Star, Bastila, Carth, Jaheira, Aerie, Viconia, Anomen, etc.......  When we say that we just don't want to play straight romances, we're told that we are limiting ourselves and don't understand the purpose of role-playing games (i.e. to role play someone different than us).  We're also told that it's optional content, so it doesn't matter if we want to experience the content, because we could just choose not to.  I don't agree with any of those arguments, but I think that they would apply to this situation, as well.  I hope that, perhaps, situations like the one that we are discussing would make those same people sympathetic to our concerns about the number of options available to us in the game.

 

Directly on topic:  I do agree that it's just easier to have a single achievement that you get for doing any of the romances.  I don't want to see them linked to individual characters because I also don't like playing certain romances and would rather not feel the need to do so if I want to get achievements.