Either live confined and "safely" in the Circles of southern Thedas or "free" and in a magocratic rat race of ridiculous proportions in Tevinter. Damned if you do; damned if you don't. Most mages that want to escape are isolationists and don't have money for slaves to taste their food.
Isolationists are idiots, there's no where to go, sooner or latter you are bound to meet other people.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Isoletionists are idiots, there's no where to go, sooner or latter you are bound to meet other people.
Hedge mages. And last I checked the Wild Witch Clan ain't nuthin' to eff with. It's as easy as picking a back water on the map (of which there are many) and scarring the p!ss out of superstitious locals so that they'll leave you alone. Or brew them love potions as Anders put it. Either one works.
Hedge mages. And last I checked the Wild Witch Clan ain't nuthin' to eff with. It's as easy as picking a back water on the map (of which there are many) and scarring the p!ss out of superstitious locals so that they'll leave you alone. Or brew them love potions as Anders put it. Either one works.
It's not going to last. Isolationism never lasts.
I suppose you could get rid of a good chunk of the new competition by offering Magister status to any newcomers willing to serve in the armies of Tevinter.
Throwing the new blood at the Qunari would be a pretty Tevinter thing to do as it would separate the stronger mages from the rest.
And that would be the right and smart thing to do.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
It's not going to last. Isolationism never lasts.
Ok. Just give me some directions to Thedas and I'll be on my way so that I can verify it for myself... oh wait
You don't know this. If it wasn't for the Blight Hawke would still be happily kicking it at Lothering.
Ok. Just give me some directions to Thedas and I'll be on my way so that I can verify it for myself... oh wait
You don't know this. If it wasn't for the Blight Hawke would still be happily kicking it at Lothering.
Try to live isolated in RL, tell me how it worked.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Try to live isolated in RL, tell me how it worked.
How do you know I haven't LOL? I spent a long time in solitude when I got out of the military. One on the most peaceful and reflective times in my life. And as far as other people go... agoraphobia is a real deal and I'm pretty sure those people manage in their isolationism just fine.
You seem like the type of person that makes judgments not based on first or even second hand experience. Not smart.
There are peoples who lived in isolation for hundreds of years. It's becoming harder, these days, what with the massive population and things like satellite surveillance, but Thedas isn't in danger of developing those any time soon.
How do you know I haven't LOL? I spent a long time in solitude when I got out of the military. One on the most peaceful and reflective times in my life. And as far as other people go... agoraphobia is a real deal and I'm pretty sure those people manage in their isolationism just fine.
You seem like the type of person that makes judgments not based on first or even second hand experience. Not smart.
So when you live in isolation, you obey your own laws, you are not a part of any society/country right? You can do whatever you want, build whatever you want, behave however you like?
There are peoples who lived in isolation for hundreds of years. It's becoming harder, these days, what with the massive population and things like satellite surveillance, but Thedas isn't in danger of developing those any time soon.
That is true, and that is why I said that it won't last, not that it currently is completely impossible in Thedas.
That is true, and that is why I said that it won't last, not that it currently is completely impossible in Thedas.
Thing about fantasy settings is they tend to stay that way. Not lasting is a relative term; if it lasts for centuries or a thousand years, that's dozens of generations that'll know peace. Just because eventually they may be found doesn't mean that time is worthless.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
So when you live in isolation, you obey your own laws, you are not a part of any society/country right? You can do whatever you want, build whatever you want, behave however you like?
Pretty much. Have you been to Martha's Vineyard? LOL.
So when you live in isolation, you obey your own laws, you are not a part of any society/country right? You can do whatever you want, build whatever you want, behave however you like?
Not really, and I think you know it. Morrigan and Flemeth pretty much lived in total isolation, but they still lived according to self-made rules Flemeth had mastered in the name of survival.
In the end, I don't think isolationists actually believe in total isolation. That is an absolutely terrible idea, one that is often used to break people's spirits and morale, whether in interrogation or pscyhological torture, which Anders experienced for a year (not starting a thread on Anders, but using him as an example and moving on.)
Instead, I think isolationists seek to set themselves up in isolated areas with very small populations so they can get supplies, and if anything goes wrong then they can keep the damage to an absolute minimum, especially since they are pretty pessimistic on the chances of improving the PR of mages, according to a conversation with Nial in the mage origin where he says mundanes will always fear mages because they don't want to stop fearing mages. That people don't want to understand.
Thing about fantasy settings is they tend to stay that way. Not lasting is a relative term; if it lasts for centuries or a thousand years, that's dozens of generations that'll know peace. Just because eventually they may be found doesn't mean that time is worthless.
What's the point of waiting? Why not set things right NOW, and not wait until you have to do it?
What's the point of waiting? Why not set things right NOW, and not wait until you have to do it?
Some people prefer a "live and let live" philosophy. Some people would rather live in peace, in isolation, than die fighting for some abstract concept.
What's the point of waiting? Why not set things right NOW, and not wait until you have to do it?
I'm going to wax philosophic on you.
"Turn a wheel too hard, too fast, and all you'll have is a broken axel."
Some people prefer a "live and let live" philosophy. Some people would rather live in peace, in isolation, than die fighting for some abstract concept.
It's not an abstract concept, it's right there. ''Live and let live'' works a little differently than you believe I think.
I'm going to wax philosophic on you.
"Turn a wheel too hard, too fast, and all you'll have is a broken axel."
There's nothing fast about it, mages have been in circles for centuries, might as well use the revolution for something.
There's nothing fast about it, mages have been in circles for centuries, might as well use the revolution for something.
Let me play devil's advocate.
I'm a farmer taking my cart to the town market, cool as you please, to sell my goods in a stall or something. Whistling a tune. As far as I know, the day is perfectly fine, my son was taken to the Circle by templars, la dee dah, I tried hiding him but accidental magic gave him away in the end. While in the market, I hear from a town crier that the entire circle has been liberated and all the mages were now free. Now most people in the market suddenly start panicking because they have centuries of religious dogma against mages vs a philosophical abstract (and one that I strongly support personally) that mages should have their freedom.
Many of those mages come to the town I'm in, and the townspeople are now expecting abominations and blood mages because for centuries that is what they've been taught to expect from any apostate or mage who isn't part of a circle, especially since the codex makes it clear that the templars and the chantry deliberately blurred the line between the two terms.
Now, me as a father of a mage may be happy, but the average person? How do you think they would treat the mages of a nearby circle where all the mages are now released, most of them are simply visiting to find the families that they were torn from?
The system itself is in desperate need of reform, probably needs to be abolished and set up anew. The old Circle system cannot be restored, there's too much bad blood on all sides, but it may be possible for it to be renewed, and that'll take trust and faith in each other from various sides.
But it's important to also recognize that the conflict goes far beyond merely oppressive templars or insane mages making bad names for both sides. You'd also have to deal with the cultural view on mages, and that cuts right to the heart of the Chantry's teachings, something that has been in place for centuries. The average person wold be driven into a chaotic mindset because their daily lives don't center around mages, keeping an ear to the ground and sensing the change. It would be abrupt, life-changing, and possibly quite violent, whether from the mage criminals who have a chip on their shoulder at their own injustice to the fearful mobs of mundanes who, even in current lore, gather and kill children as they're discovered to be mages for a bad crop, a still-birth or whatever.
It is a change that is going to be quite abrupt, and likely violent, and has very little to do with the Circle system and how mages are treated within it, and nearly everything to do with how much they're feared and how much they're preached against outside the Circles themselves.
Guest_Corrinus Palaiologos I_*
I agree it's sort of a strange hole...I've been recently playing DAO over again and there's multiple mentions of characters going to Tevinter in the Epilogue. It reminds me almost of people going sightseeing 'to see the Vatican' or Rome or something. Wynne and Shale can end up going to Minrathous.
However, the most interesting one is that Connor goes there and accepts a position for formal study of the Fade or somesuch. Second class citizen or not, he was offered a job over there. For a land of gloom and evilll I find it strange three characters, especially Wynne and Connor (at the insistence of his father no less), possibly go there. So personally, I think it might have the puppykilling taint for nonhumans and non-magical sorts, but if you're a mage, maybe you can go sightseeing there and not get too much hassle if you don't step on some lofty magister's toes. I think Tevinter might be the ideal place for human Mages who aren't fans of the Chantry and Circle stuff, but most aren't willing to undertake the journey and do fear they're going to be low in the hierarchy which is probably true.
Also, if guys like Dorian Pavus (from that paragraph), all speculative of course, exist, then maybe not all of the Tevinter mages are batsheet insane, yes?
Leaving aside the situation in Kirkwall where both sides seemed to go for extremes of behaviour, the majority of mages in Thedas are a mixed bunch of whom only the Libertarians really advocate total separation and independence from the Chantry controlled Circles. Other groups would like more freedoms but were reasonably happy with the status quo. The Loyalists always argued against any form of separation. Many mages are not particularly powerful and would probably not survive particularly well outside the security of the Circles. They would be open to being set upon by vengeful mobs, robbed by thieves, etc, without the protection of the Templars. Those from the peasant ranks may actually welcome trading their freedom for the comforts of the Circle. A city elf mage might find life preferably within the Circle to that on the outside. A peasant child rejected by their parents and persecuted by other children of the same age, might also find it better. I felt that the depiction of the Circle in Origins gave a much better balanced view of the situation than DA2. I still didn't like the system and was appalled at the thought that Jowan could have been made Tranquil originally simply on the say so of the First Enchanter because of a potential threat that he posed rather than anything he had actually done. However, Jowan says that he was originally rejected by his parents so unlike Anders he found the Circle a refuge until he realised what they were planning for him.
According to what we have been told, Tevinter also has a Circle system. The only difference is that the Templars are under the control of the Magisters and the Black Chantry, so they are most likely used when those in power want to rein in a potential threat among the lower class mages. So if you are a powerful mage and are not averse to using any means at your disposal in order to rise, then going to Tevinter might seem a good move. To any mage with principles about the abuse of power it would not. Otherwise why did not Malcolm flee to Tevinter with his wife instead of Ferelden?
Feynriel says that he can see where the Templars are coming from when he has spent some time in Tevinter. Fenris says that the mages there are not above enslaving their own. Lambert was converted to his extremist views after spending his initial years in Tevinter and seeing first hand how power corrupted those mages he had formerly thought of as friends. Rhys was set upon by a group of apprentices to a powerful Magister even though he was there as part of a diplomatic mission. All the evidence suggests that living a life of an apostate in the rest of Thedas would probably be preferable to trying to hack it in the corrupt culture of Tevinter.
Why do gay people in Russia and Uganda stay in a country where it carries the death penalty rather than moving to countries where it is legal and accepted? Money? Family ties? Restricted freedom of movement? Language/culture barriers? The idealism of standing up and being counted to fight an injustice in your own country, rather than 'escaping' to another? All of the above?
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