173 réponses à ce sujet

[Bardox9]

What happens to the Krogan? I find myself asking this question everytime I even look at the words "Mass Effect". When I ask if the Genophage should be cured or not, the most common answers are either a simple "No" followed by a reason or some appeal to modify it to slightly increase the birth rate but not flat out cured. So, assuming the Genophage cure is sabotaged, what happens to the Krogan?

 

I usually spare Wrex in ME1, save Maelon's data in ME2, and in ME3... sabotage the cure. Seems counter intuitive, but there is a method to the madness. Sparing Wrex in ME1 provides the Krogan with Wrex's plans in ME2, which IMO is the best path forward for the Krogan. Saving Maelon's data and allowing Mordin to complete the cure means the possibility of curing the Genophage exists and could be used should the Krogan actually turn from their violent nature to focus on rebuilding their world instead of constantly fighting and killing each other not to mention those of other races. I sabotage the Cure in ME3 because, given the state of Krogan culture, I cannot see them placing their on population controls on themselves and not violently expanding again when they are overcrowded and are running out of resources.

 

The Genophage is not a sterility plague. It only limits the viable birthrates to the levels before the Salarians uplifted them. The number one reason for Krogan deaths is by gunshot via another Krogan. If they were not so violent, their populations would be growing. Not falling. Granted, sabotaging the cure (with Wrex alive) results in you having to kill Wrex. His plan will live on in the females clan. With the Genophage still in full swing, the females power in Krogan culture will still be strong enough to force the other clans to stick with the neutral breeding ground effort. I know I'm putting a lot of faith in the female clans abilities, but it is more likely than a kumbaya moment after a race of war mongers has their leash removed.

 

Even if I'm wrong and the Krogan get even more violent and end up driving faster towards extinction... well... it appears to be relatively easy to clone a Krogan army. If the Krogan took the focus off of infighting, they could take DNA from a male and/or female Krogan and (for lack of a better word) grow a healthy baby. No more still born kids. They could stabilize their population if just one clan focused on this. But no, with the exception of a Wrex lead clan Urdnot, they focus on developing new more powerful ways of killing themselves and others then complain about their falling population numbers.

 

Forget the question of "Should we cure the Genophage or not". If the Cure was sabotaged, what do you think happens to the Krogan?

[DeinonSlayer]

Well, I can say that if the cure was NOT sabotaged, the euphoria of the genophage being lifted would wear off damned quick when they remembered they're living in an overpopulated, irradiated desert which can't feed their newfound numbers.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If the Krogan had scientists they might even develop a cure. They've had 1000 years. But they won't. They're barbarians. The problem was the salarians uplifting them in the first place, but they needed them to fight the rachni. They rewarded them with planets and space ships. 

 

I killed Wrex in ME1, even though I like the character. I think it makes Tuchanka more Krogan.

[Excella Gionne]

The last paragraph sounds very darn unethical. Like I said in those "previous" threads, the sins of the father and mother should not burden the child.

 

By keeping the Genophage active throughout the generations, you anger the current and the next generation, because they feel imperfect and unbalanced as a species. Any species affected by a synthetic strain would become unbalanced, and I only blame the krogan partially. The ones that caused this problem were the Salarians. Anything after a problem that is tied to that particular problem is a casualty ONLY. 

 

The krogans wil eventually die out because of the Genophage + the Modified Genophage. There's not enough per generation to replace lost krogans and eventually it will lead to extinction. Even if they were to make a cure, those dumb*** salarians will come and sterilize them anyways...

 

Besides, didn't we argue enough about the Genophage already? 

[fhs33721]

Don't the EC slides heavily suggest that they ultimately die out without the cure? 

[KaiserShep]

They become relics in the Citadel Museum of Xenobiological History.

[Excella Gionne]

Don't the EC slides heavily suggest that they ultimately die out without the cure? 

Yes, they do. There's not enough births that can sustain the population itself, because natural causes will diminish their numbers....

[SporkFu]

I think the krogan would go back to slowly dying out, like they were before the opportunity to cure was presented.

The genophage by itself may not kill them, but the clans would resume fighting over the fertile females and their warriors would kill eachother.

Might take hundreds of years but eventually population growth would fall below zero and remain there.

Possibility also exists that another cure might be found. Remember warlord OKeer saying the only thing the genophage filters is the ability to survive the genophage, it doesn't necessarily male the krogan a stronger species.

But a less ideal cure might be found and it would be more difficult to convince the krogan not to jump at it; something like Saren wanting his own private army in exchange for the cure... Which would be a bad thing.

Shep, on the other hand, is offering the krogan a chance to be "big goddam heroes" (to quote Zaeed) and feel hope again. Curing may not work out in the long run; I mean it could be as bad as people fear... But at least this way the aftermath can get off to a better start. Of course my opinion is based off the assumption that it's Wrex and Bakara leading the krogan into the future.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The EC slides also suggest that the war was won by the Krogan if you cured it.

[SporkFu]

The EC slides also suggest that the war was won by the Krogan if you cured it.

Reason enough right there. Afterwards, let what comes, come, and deal with it then. One thing at a time.

[Excella Gionne]

That depends on who is the clan leader, specifically.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

To me, it makes no difference who the Urdnot leader is or whether the cure is enacted or sabotaged. Eventually, it's just going to result in a colony drop on Tuchanka and the extermination of the Krogan. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I think the real damage from the genophage is psychological, not biological.

 

The genophage was created such that the krogan could technically still sustain a viable population, but if mating results in stillbirths at a staggering 99.9% rate, you're going to end up discouraging a VERY large portion of the population from mating at all. Who wants to go through repeated failed pregnancies and dead children? So while the genophage merely adjusts the level of viable krogan births, it's unlikely that the species is still mating at the previous rate as before, but lower (perhaps much lower).

 

At that point, it's kind of become a vicious cycle for them: the krogan are dying out because they're not interested in their future -and- the krogan are not interested in their future because they're dying out.

[grey_wind]

 

The krogans wil eventually die out because of the Genophage + the Modified Genophage. There's not enough per generation to replace lost krogans and eventually it will lead to extinction. 

How? Their 0.01% birth rate is practically equivalent to every other species; one child per couple per pregnancy. Add in their 1000 year lifespans, and there's no reason why they should die out if Wrex's reforms as mentioned in the OP are still in practice.

[Excella Gionne]

 I think the real damage from the genophage is psychological, not biological.

 

The genophage was created such that the krogan could technically still sustain a viable population, but if mating results in stillbirths at a staggering 99.9% rate, you're going to end up discouraging a VERY large portion of the population from mating at all. Who wants to go through repeated failed pregnancies and dead children? So while the genophage merely adjusts the level of viable krogan births, it's unlikely that the species is still mating at the previous rate as before, but lower (perhaps much lower).

 

At that point, it's kind of become a vicious cycle for them: the krogan are dying out because they're not interested in their future -and- the krogan are not interested in their future because they're dying out.

I agree. It's kinda like saying "Why are we trying to have kids just to watch them die again?". The Genophage has caused their species to become unbalanced....

[grey_wind]

 I think the real damage from the genophage is psychological, not biological.

 

The genophage was created such that the krogan could technically still sustain a viable population, but if mating results in stillbirths at a staggering 99.9% rate, you're going to end up discouraging a VERY large portion of the population from mating at all. Who wants to go through repeated failed pregnancies and dead children? So while the genophage merely adjusts the level of viable krogan births, it's unlikely that the species is still mating at the previous rate as before, but lower (perhaps much lower).

 

At that point, it's kind of become a vicious cycle for them: the krogan are dying out because they're not interested in their future -and- the krogan are not interested in their future because they're dying out.

I largely agree with this, though I am curious about how much psychological damage is caused by a stillborn egg...

There's no way in hell the females are giving birth to a thousand live young at a time.

[Excella Gionne]

How? Their 0.01% birth rate is practically equivalent to every other species; one child per couple per pregnancy. Add in their 1000 year lifespans, and there's no reason why they should die out if Wrex's reforms as mentioned in the OP are still in practice.

There are more krogans dying from natural causes than there are babies to actually replace them.

[SporkFu]

I largely agree with this, though I am curious about how much psychological damage is caused by a stillborn egg...
There's no way in hell the females are giving birth to a thousand live young at a time.

Yeah, but when it's already been happening for 1400+ years, it's bound to have a negative effect.

[grey_wind]

There are more krogans dying from natural causes than there are babies to actually replace them.

The only "natural" cause that can feasibly kill a Krogan is another Krogan. The Codex even mentions that death by gunshot is their number one cause of death.

[Excella Gionne]

The only "natural" cause that can feasibly kill a Krogan is another Krogan. The Codex even mentions that death by gunshot is their number one cause of death.

Death by gunshot is technically a "natural" cause. Being killed is a natural cause unless the cause of death was supernatural.

[grey_wind]

Death by gunshot is technically a "natural" cause. Being killed is a natural cause unless the cause of death was supernatural.

And under Wrex's reforms, that natural cause is largely mitigated. So I don't see the problem here.

[Excella Gionne]

And under Wrex's reforms, that natural cause is largely mitigated. So I don't see the problem here.

It doesn't mean they won't start killing each other. There are lots of krogan that live outside of their homeworld, and like what Wrex said, most never return. Tuchanka's resources are limited and they will need a new planet soon. Wrex can keep them from killing each other, but that's not gonna stop them when the clans are going hungry or are becoming strained on resources. 

[SporkFu]

I don't think the krogan would stop being krogan, nor do I think Wrex wants that to happen.

[KaiserShep]

My memory is shot at the moment, but does ME2 ever mention infertile females? ME3 touches on the subject of some krogan simply being incapable of giving birth at all, if we're to take Eve and Wrex on their word.

[Excella Gionne]

I don't think the krogan would stop being krogan, nor do I think Wrex wants that to happen.

Krogan is krogan. Every species is defined by their own traits. Wrex doesn't want to change his species, only their perspective.