173 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Much of that relies on the fact that the reapers could, if they wanted, simply nuke everything in sight and cut their losses on this cycle, but instead choose not to.

[AlexMBrennan]

it appears to be relatively easy to clone a Krogan army

Sure, if you happen to be a Reaper with all of their technology... else, not so much. 

 

Forget the question of "Should we cure the Genophage or not". If the Cure was sabotaged, what do you think happens to the Krogan?

I'd say that two factors are vastly more important than anything you have mentioned

1) salerian efforts - they developed the genophage once, and apparently still feel it's necessary... yet everyone assumes that they'll just ignore a perceived threat because Shepard disabled their initial solution?

2) turian gunboats - the krogan don't have a fleet, and are probably not smart enough to ever develop spaceflight so a few turian warships in orbit can basically impose whatever restrictions on population growth they want

[Obadiah]

We see Krogan all over the galaxy in Mass Effect. They are not a reclusive species and have much contact with many people within galactic space, many of whom probably sympathize and support their plight. Within Mordin's lifetime there have been two cures already - one natural, and one from the people tasked with overcoming the Krogan's natural ability to overcome it. Leadership has a really big problem if the very people tasked with implementing a policy are turning on that policy and sabotaging it.

To paraphrase the Catalyst, recent events have shown that the Genophage solution won't work any more, and the Council needs to find a new solution.

If Shepard doesn't cure the Genophage during the Reaper War, the Genophage will be cured eventually, and with their influence the Krogan will gain power, and the Alliance will be added to the list of people who screwed them over along the with Salarians and Turians. Very likely the Council will win any war with the Krogan, but they'll have to still deal with a really nasty war from the resurgent Krogan.

[KaiserShep]

We see Krogan all over the galaxy in Mass Effect. They are not a reclusive species and have much contact with many people within galactic space, many of whom probably sympathize and support their plight. Within Mordin's lifetime there have been two cures already - one natural, and one from the people tasked with overcoming the Krogan's natural ability to overcome it. Leadership has a really big problem if the very people tasked with implementing a policy are turning on that policy and sabotaging it.

 

We see plenty of krogan outside of Tuchanka in ME1 and 2, but thus far, we've only ever seen the males. ME3 does suggest that it's typically the males of the species that sell themselves out as mercenaries. Now, assuming that there's at least a few female outliers among this group, we have no way of knowing if there are enough krogan to provide a viable population, let alone be an influential group. As for garnering sympathy, what we'd likely see are cases like Maelon working in secret rather than some widespread "Save The Krogan" campaign, because the turians and salarians definitely wouldn't stand for it, and the asari would just roll with them rather than antagonize either of them. Considering their own part in history during the rebellions, they'd probably support them anyway.

 

 

To paraphrase the Catalyst, recent events have shown that the Genophage solution won't work any more, and the Council needs to find a new solution.

 

If the other two games have shown anything, it's that the genophage does actually work in conjunction with demilitarization. It effectively neutered the krogan's ability to wage war. In peacetime, if the genophage really wasn't working anymore, and the other races thought that they might be a problem, this new solution would probably be a final one. I am certain that the turians would have no qualms with rendering them extinct if they even got the slightest hint that the krogan might become a vengeful force to be reckoned with.

 

 

If Shepard doesn't cure the Genophage during the Reaper War, the Genophage will be cured eventually, and with their influence the Krogan will gain power, and the Alliance will be added to the list of people who screwed them over along the with Salarians and Turians. Very likely the Council will win any war with the Krogan, but they'll have to still deal with a really nasty war from the resurgent Krogan.

 

If Shepard doesn't cure the genophage during the reaper war, the krogan are history. Tuchanka is not repopulated, and if the rachni are alive, they take the planet over. Whatever influence the krogan may hope to have once the war is over evaporates if Mordin or Padok do not go through with dispersing a working cure.

[DeinonSlayer]

You know all that Krogan architecture that you see in ME3? The vast cities that were supposedly evidence of the Krogan's true intellectual nature, and that in curing the genophage they could return once more to this in a cultural renaissance? Yeah, total red herring.

Anyone who actually paid attention would know that when the Krogan civilization was at it's peak, the Krogan were genetically different. Only a minuscule fraction had the mutation which made them feel no pain during blood rage, making those individual's much more aggressive. These individuals were marginalized by Krogan society, and it was treated as a medical/psychological abnormality.

Well, the Krogan wasted their world in nuclear warfare. We might do the same thing. Yes, they exhibited aggression. But this aggression was NOTHING like the Krogan of the present. After the nuclear holocaust, natural selection selected for those mutant Krogan who had the aberrant form of blood rage...the others died off, as they could not survive in the harsh ruined Tuchanka. And those Krogan make up the population of Krogan today.

So no, it is ludicrous to think that simply curing the genophage with Wrex's pacifying influence will be enough to maintain lasting peace. Mordin was right - every simulation led to war. Every variable was accounted for, and every indication was that it should not be cured.

The ONLY reason that I cure it is to gain
Krogan support in the war, and with the understanding that after the war a new genophage could be instituted when (not if) they revolt again. It may take them a millennia or two to get the numbers, infrastructure, and ships necessary for a rebellion, but I think you'd have to be super naive to blindly trust the Krogan for all time because of Wrex.

Did someone say "naive?"

[ImaginaryMatter]

Did someone say "naive?"

 

Naive, no.

 

It's heroic!

[Comrade Wakizashi]

The most logical thing to do for the krogan, as soon as they found out that they were betrayed by Shepard, would be to wait until after the victory against the Reapers, and then immediately unleash total war against the salarians. Of course they would ultimately lose, but it would be according to krogan tradition of honourable death in battle. Plus, they'd at least go down with a bang instead of dying out slowly like the salarian dalatrass would have wanted. Dragging down thousands of salarians into doom seems like a reasonable way to go for a krogan.

 

At least that seems a logical path to take as revenge for the betrayal. Anyway, for me it's a moot point since I don't ever sabotage the cure anyway.

[Obadiah]

@KaiserShep
Seems like the Turians stood for the cure just fine when the Reapers attacked. In fact, it seemed like the Turian general was taken aback by the idea that the fertile Korgan female resistant to the Genophage was being kept by the Salarians. Its one thing to launch a biological weapon in defense when your race is under attack. It is another to launch it 1000 years later when the race is simply overcoming the original infection naturally to maintain a status quo of power. At that point, the only people still supporting the Genophage are, well, people like the Dalatrass at the conference. Not even Mordin could continue to rationalize it indefinitely.

If the Krogan actually fight in the war with other races, sympathy for them will only grow. If the Rachni are part of the fight, well, the Queen owes her life to Aralakh company's sacrifice at that point.

Two cures already in the last ~30 years (Mordin's lifetime). How many more on the way? The Genophage is failing. Maybe the powers that be can continue launching secret strikes to maintain the effectiveness of the Genophage after the Reaper invasion, but its just a powder keg waiting to go off at that point.

[KaiserShep]

The turians, or rather just the Primarch, endorses the cure out of desperation, not sympathy. Unlike the salarians, who are sitting pretty on Sur'kesh for most of the war, the turians don't have the luxury of sitting around weighing in on the risk of a resurgent krogan post-war, when their civilization is on the brink of being eradicated. This whole cure business comes out of left field anyway. Victus didn't know that a cure was even feasible, but goes along with Wrex/Wreav's wishes because nothing changes the fact that they need them. During a time of relative peace, the turians would undoubtedly have little to no incentive to care, at least not to the point where they'd take steps to undo the genophage. I have no doubt that if the salarians had instead developed a bioweapon that would simply eradicate the krogan entirely, the turians would have still used it, and never looked back on it with regret.

 

A major catastrophe is likely the sole catalyst for supporting a cure for the genophage. If there's one thing that can be counted on, it's the general indifference of people when things are hunky-dory. The krogan have been living with the genophage for over a thousand years, and while that's just a lifetime for them, that's generations of most other races, and with krogan being little more than merc brutes and thugs to the general populace of the galaxy, it's not likely that there would be some kind of rally to save them.

 

But anyway, getting support for the cure post-war is a moot point, since there's no one of import left to gain sympathy for.

[Obadiah]

That's my point with bringing up the two cures that have recently happened. It doesn't take major powers to create the cure, it takes them to maintain the Genophage and overcome the cures. The cures are showing up regardless - naturally or by top major defecting scientists that create it. Its just a matter of on what terms the Krogan get it.

Victus now knows that a cure is feasible, and will find out if Shepard lied to the Krogans, his allies that helped defend Pallaven. If Wrex was able to find out that the cure was sabotaged, dead or alive in ME1, others after the Reaper War will find out as well. Victus may not go and work for a cure, but he's not going to support the humans or maintaining the Genophage after that kind of behavior (betraying an ally). And when another opportunity for a cure comes around, that's one more important Turian that won't stop it - he may even work to prevent the Salarians from stopping the cure.

[KaiserShep]

There won't be another opportunity for the cure to be implemented. If you sabotage the cure, the krogan die out. However Victus or anyone else feels about it won't matter.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And the clans will have a far better chance at petitioning the Council for resources and another planet if they're not reproducing like rodents. How does curing the Genophage make this problem better?

 

It's for the feelz.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I have no idea how a race of infantry with limited numbers could win a war against 2km starships with an unlimited amount of indoctrinated foot soldiers, that makes absolutely no sense. You don't need the Krogan to win the war, infantry is useless against giant ships, you just need them to get an alliance with the Turians, they are disposable after that. 

 

Oh, I agree with you, but if you cure the genophage you get three slides of Krogan in all three endings. It kind of implies that the war couldn't possibly have been won without them. They were cannon fodder. But you see Krogan, and more Krogan, and more Krogan.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And this is why

 

 

Now I can fake the genophage cure.

[AlanC9]

Oh, I agree with you, but if you cure the genophage you get three slides of Krogan in all three endings. It kind of implies that the war couldn't possibly have been won without them. They were cannon fodder. But you see Krogan, and more Krogan, and more Krogan.

 

I don't see how it implies that.

[Obadiah]

There won't be another opportunity for the cure to be implemented. If you sabotage the cure, the krogan die out. However Victus or anyone else feels about it won't matter.

I haven't seen this in any of the EC slides. It just shows the Krogan returning to Tuchanka, and Tuchanka remains a wasteland. Why do you think they die out?

[Deathsaurer]

I haven't seen this in any of the EC slides. It just shows the Krogan returning to Tuchanka, and Tuchanka remains a wasteland. Why do you think they die out?

Probably because if the Rachni are alive and the Genophage isn't cured they move onto Tuchanka. See the wiki http://masseffect.wi...i#Mass_Effect_3

[ioannisdenton]

Just did it. with wrex and eve dead ofcourse. This is a game changer. good job bioware on this arc! the last part with mordin on the shroud was really tense!!!! it got me up on my feet!! i screamed cause i thought i was going to shoot him with my full renegade shep!!}
Last but not least with wrex and eve dead you get a whole different experience! Wreave is a totally different character than Wrex. I strognly recomend you guys to kill Wrex next time!

[themikefest]

Just did it. with wrex and eve dead ofcourse. This is a game changer. good job bioware on this arc! the last part with mordin on the shroud was really tense!!!! it got me up on my feet!! i screamed cause i thought i was going to shoot him with my full renegade shep!!}
Last but not least with wrex and eve dead you get a whole different experience! Wreave is a totally different character than Wrex. I strognly recomend you guys to kill Wrex next time!

Kill Wrex in ME3 and if Kirrahe is alive in ME3 with Thane stopping the assassin, Kirrahe gives a cool speech on Earth.

[KaiserShep]

I haven't seen this in any of the EC slides. It just shows the Krogan returning to Tuchanka, and Tuchanka remains a wasteland. Why do you think they die out?

This is really starting to remind me of the geth-survive-destroy thread, based on the fact that we don't see any dead geth in an epilogue slide. There is a stark difference between a cure slide and a sabotage slide, and it's pretty clear that the krogan are a lost cause in the latter.

[Obadiah]

Probably because if the Rachni are alive and the Genophage isn't cured they move onto Tuchanka. See the wiki http://masseffect.wi...i#Mass_Effect_3

Yeah, that looks pretty bad.

[Obadiah]

This is really starting to remind me of the geth-survive-destroy thread, based on the fact that we don't see any dead geth in an epilogue slide. There is a stark difference between a cure slide and a sabotage slide, and it's pretty clear that the krogan are a lost cause in the latter.

So... the slides explicitly show that they're weakened, but still alive, and on Tuchanka then, and not actually dead, and you just think they'll die.

[Deathsaurer]

Exactly what hope do the Krogan have of recovery with the Rachni invading the planet? I mean really. That speaks volumes about the state of the Krogan.

[DeinonSlayer]

Exactly what hope do the Krogan have of recovery with the Rachni invading the planet? I mean really. That speaks volumes about the state of the Krogan.

Says a thing or two about the Rachni as well.

[Deathsaurer]

That they're perfectly willing to exploit a dying race? Yeah, that's rather cruel of them. I mean it'd have been one thing to wait till they died off but going meh they're dying anyways, why should we care is a dick move.