125 réponses à ce sujet

[megawug]

Harrier.  QED.

[Credit2team]

on a turian maybe

[Miniditka77]

As I said in the other thread, the Lancer is better against mooks, and the CSMG is better against bosses. The difference is marginal most of the time. 

[PurpGuy1]

3) WTF? Everything dies so fast anyway that even if Lancer was worse, it doesn't matter, so Lancer is better?

 

Good morning, BSN.

[BridgeBurner]

In other news, Turians have 55% stability which mitigates much of the yaw recoil the lancer has.

 

Test invalid, 100% of casters don't have passive stability bonuses, and using stability mods on the lancer drops it's effectiveness.

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

I like both.. *shrug*

 

That's in conflict with BSN Rule #1337, which says that every member is required to take sides on any question of preference, and not yield the slightest hint of acceptance of any merit in the opposite position.

 

Now which is it? Choose!

 

I see what you're saying, but you're wrong.

Also, your formatting makes me irreparably angry.

 

Irreparably...that's bad.

[Geek]

I don't really agree with the OP but I like the Lancer better mainly because I don't really care for the csmg.

[Creator Limbs]

Irreparably...that's bad.

Is it? Really? I have got to start looking words up before I use them.   

[ajma420]

I like both. Apparently I'm in the minority.

 

Edit: oh, apparently, I'm in violation of rule 1337. Whatever...

[TemplariShadow]

Is it? Really? I have got to start looking words up before I use them.   

 

 

Well, first off. Can the angry be fixed? If so, then we've got an issue, otherwise it's fine.

[Creator Limbs]

Advice: quit now.

[capn233]

In other news, Turians have 55% stability which mitigates much of the yaw recoil the lancer has.

 

Test invalid, 100% of casters don't have passive stability bonuses, and using stability mods on the lancer drops it's effectiveness.

 

So CSMG has no yaw recoil?

 

edit:

 

I am just going to go ahead and write the essay since it apparently needs elaboration.

 

Lancer has higher zoom recoil (about 3x) and as a result should have a higher magnitude of total recoil yaw.  However, the CSMG has a much higher yaw frequency, which going is to contribute at least as much to shot to shot variability as the slowly meandering Lancer's frequency.  It is 4 for CSMG v 0.5 for Lancer.

 

You can play around with the Avenger if you want.  You can fire more than half an extended mag before it will switch left to right set at 0.5.  Set to 4 it is much more common, something like every 5 shots.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Does anyone know if these two gun have a different force rating? This is just anecdotal, but it feels to me like the Lancer staggers enemies better than the CSMG.

[PoetryAvenger]

Objectively speaking, the M-7 Lancer is longer than the CSMG.

Objectively speaking, the M-7 Lancer is neither C nor SMG.

Objectively speaking, the CSMG is a clever anagram for "MSG, C?"

[T41rdEye]

Why not use both on different classes? There's obviously not that much separating them... 

 

Just use the damn reetard carbine every match if all you care about is killing efficiency and topping the scoreboard

[Pheabus2009]

Both are very good weapons(especially at high lvl), tho I prefer CSR and PPR more.

[BridgeBurner]

So CSMG has no yaw recoil?

 

edit:

 

I am just going to go ahead and write the essay since it apparently needs elaboration.

 

Lancer has higher zoom recoil (about 3x) and as a result should have a higher magnitude of total recoil yaw.  However, the CSMG has a much higher yaw frequency, which going is to contribute at least as much to shot to shot variability as the slowly meandering Lancer's frequency.  It is 4 for CSMG v 0.5 for Lancer.

 

You can play around with the Avenger if you want.  You can fire more than half an extended mag before it will switch left to right set at 0.5.  Set to 4 it is much more common, something like every 5 shots.

 

The eventual result is less left/right shot deviation on the CSMG at 0% stability, compared to a 0% stability lancer.

 

If you take weapons and compare their recoil stat for stat it's pointless, as each gun has a PATTERN to its recoil anyway... Typhoon's recoil is far from impressive as a stat, it's spread is noticeably tighter when stabilized though, like most ARs.

 

We also seem to have missed out the fact that the CSMG's instant clip regeneration is much better than simply having more shots to begin with. By the time you've begun regenerating lancer ammo, the CSMG has already chewed through another enemy or two due to not having to wait for it to recharge.

[RustyBuckets02]

lancer is 'bleh'.. I played it the first day I got it by match 5 I went back to the harrier....
 
 the CSMG looks cooler, has a wider range of mod options and its ammo consists of  prehistoric, calcified/petrified Collector 'pellets' that you can shoot at things... that's a win simply because you're shooting ancient poo at things!

But the ammo recharges. Where do all the extra shots come fro...

Oh.

Oh

[Terminator Force]

Ah cool, another Lancer topic. I think if we all just talk about the Lancer only, I'd be very happy.

 

 

Anyways, I too think it's better, no doubt. My Lancer is at level 4, while my CSMG at 5. But I'll reserve the right to change my mind once I have them both at level 10 and played with them both a heck of a lot more.

 

 

 

 

Also, yesterday I tried it on the Lancer on the Human Soldier, and realized taking duration in AdrenRush is the way to go for the Lancer. Because activating AR to get it to refill ammo ASAP is something I did a lot in the my London match against Collector. So after it refills and you start shooting, you want the damage boost to be lasting as long as possible.

[capn233]

The eventual result is less left/right shot deviation on the CSMG at 0% stability, compared to a 0% stability lancer.

 

If you take weapons and compare their recoil stat for stat it's pointless, as each gun has a PATTERN to its recoil anyway... Typhoon's recoil is far from impressive as a stat, it's spread is noticeably tighter when stabilized though, like most ARs.

 

We also seem to have missed out the fact that the CSMG's instant clip regeneration is much better than simply having more shots to begin with. By the time you've begun regenerating lancer ammo, the CSMG has already chewed through another enemy or two due to not having to wait for it to recharge.

 

The first issue is that the test was done for a specific reason for a different thread where people were going on about how Lancer is much less accurate than CSMG which meant headshots across map with CSMG and only at melee range with Lancer.  This was thoroughly debunked.  I do agree with the notion that the CSMG is more docile and in some ways superior to Lancer.  I don't agree with the OP that Lancer makes CSMG obsolete because I think they have different roles.  I did disagree with the idea that CSMG is really better against mooks.

 

Getting back to your first point "the eventual result is less left/right shot deviation on the CSMG at 0% stability, compared to a 0% stability lancer," This is just incorrect unless you are talking about human error.  You are not accounting for the drastic difference in recoil yaw.  Recoil yaw makes predictable variation in between each shot just like vertical recoil except when it switches direction.  CSMG switches direction much more frequently than Lancer.  It isn't as if recoil yaw goes all the way left then all the way right every shot.  It does not work like that.

 

In addition, the total magnitude of the recoil yaw is not all that large because most likely the yawscale is multiplied by the recoil number.  I did not find the code for this, but this is likely because if you set zoomrecoil and recoil to 0 and yawscale to whatever, you do not get yaw.

 

It is unclear to me what a recoil pattern is unless you really are talking about the interaction between the magnitude and the frequency of the yaw.  Or if there is some sort of actual preset pattern, then please point me to it.

 

Typhoon is probably not going to be very closely related to either of these weapons since it not only has a 2.25 yaw scale (which is unusual compared to most in being greater than 1), but also a relatively high frequency at 2.25.  So it will swing left to right much more often than Lancer, and it will probably deviate more left or right before it changes compared to CSMG.

 

Anyway you can also say that recoil yaw does not particularly change the group size anymore than vertical recoil does, especially at low frequencies.  We often discount vertical recoil's contribution to the group, but somehow decided the yaw opens the group up a lot.  In reality, it is more like it is moving the point of aim a little left or right and your accuracy (which is actually randomized with FRand()) is centered around that.

 

[LemurFromTheId]

Interesting. Don't stop now!

[Terminator Force]

Ok, I just remembered something. if you think that the one thing against the Lancer is it being harder to aim, here is were I'll 100% debunk it with one word. Muscle Memory. ... Ok, so that was two words.  But yeah. Play enough with the Lancer and it should be just as steady as the CSMG. Without a doubt. After all, how do you think guitarists as able to pull off crazy guitar solos at insane speeds. They don't think about their fingers moving, it just gets done.

 

 

Now is you think the other things is ammo regenerating ASAP is an advantage over the Lancer, you are wrong again. Because; a) a lot of power animations are long enough that the Lancer regenerates ammo anyways, and; the Lancers massive ammo reserve.

 

 

Now if you think the power mod thingy is a strike against the Lancer too, you're wrong again. Because; a) really only DOT power benefit (and the Huntress is still better with the Lancer); combo dmg where it's at; c) you're much better off adding a piecing mod/extended barrel anyways, cause like megabeast's sig says, weapon dps are better then power dps, or something along them lines?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, just reached my quota in saving money (63 mil, which I estimated to be the hallway point at maxing my manifest at 10% drop rate... can also tell I'm a Gold player that pugs all the time by having at least 1000 hours and no max manifest ). All I have to do now is make just a bit more to max my gels/rockets/ops/clips, then hopefully the troll store is nice to me.

[BridgeBurner]

 

Now is you think the other things is ammo regenerating ASAP is an advantage over the Lancer, you are wrong again. Because; a) a lot of power animations are long enough that the Lancer regenerates ammo anyways, and; the Lancers massive ammo reserve.

 

 

So much no. I release the trigger long enough to cast overload and I have 10-15 shots back in CSMG.

 

I do the same with the lancer and my ammo hasn't even begun regenerating.

[Terminator Force]

Yeah, well Overload is a zip fast power. Not all powers are that fast.

[Cyonan]

Yeah, well Overload is a zip fast power. Not all powers are that fast.

 

Actually, most powers are that fast except for a handful like Lash and Smash.