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[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Damsel of Distress wrote...
While I agree that Cailan and Celene were probably having an affair, I don't believe they were going to marry.

Arl Eamon's letter shows that he's discussed Cailan ditching Anora quite often, and despite that fact that Cailan has apparantly had numerous affairs, he's brushed him off each and every time. That shows a  degree of loyalty to his marriage with Anora.

"Permanent alliance" hints heavily that they were planning marriage. Maybe Cailan would have a change of heart? Maybe. We don't know and it will remain a what if.
Plus, we must remember that Celene is a genius in politics, probably beautiful and very sophisticated. If Anora easily captured Cailan's attention, I doubt his "loyalty" would last long in front of Celene.

Of course, this is all speculation. But I believe the evidence we have make this theory very probable and likely.  

I also very much believe that this alliance, whether marriage or not, was all Celene's doing. She could no doubt manipulate Cailan easily.

[DariusKalera]

Damsel of Distress wrote...

While I agree that Cailan and Celene were probably having an affair, I don't believe they were going to marry.

Arl Eamon's letter shows that he's discussed Cailan ditching Anora quite often, and despite that fact that Cailan has apparantly had numerous affairs, he's brushed him off each and every time. That shows a  degree of loyalty to his marriage with Anora.

Loyalty is only one of the possible reasons.  Another is that he is afraid of what Loghain might do if he, Cailan, gives Anora the boot without just cause. 

Or, he could be involved in these afairs in an attempt to get one of them pregnant.  He would bed one woman for a time to see if she became pregnant, if she didn't, he would move onto the next.   Which, honestly, would be the best way to get rid of Anora.  If he were to get one of these women pregnant, he could then use that as ammunition to remove Anora as queen since she would be the one incapable of delivering an heir.  It would also put the Landsmeet on his side incase Loghain were to try and start something. 

But, since it appears that none of Cailan's affairs produced a child, we can some what assume that it was he, and not Anora, that was having problems.

Cailan brushing off Eamon could be just a result of not finding a woman to take Anora's place.

[Realmzmaster]

Was Cailan a horrible king? Not enough information to base an opinion. I can summarize he was a man looking to enter the history books with glory and as a legend. The only problem is that he is a legend in his own mind.
He was not a great administer, but a lot of kings were not great administers. He appears to be popular with the people. But he is obsessed with trying to live up to the legend of his father and emerge from his father's shadow to become a king in his own right.
The easiest way for a king to prove his worth was on the battlefield and this suited Cailan. He did not have the political savvy, wisdom, or dare I say intelligence of Anora.

Let not have our civil discussion fall into name calling or insults. All of us are entitled to our opinions. I may not always agree with KnightofPhoenix, but I find his discussion and opinion to be well thought out. We may agree to disagree, but I respect his discourse and how it is presented.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 26 janvier 2010 - 12:48 .

[SusanStoHelit]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I agree that Cailan's infatuation with the Wardens and glory is not primarly the Warden's doing. But then again, we don't really see Duncan slapping some sense in the guy (metaphorically speaking of course). I don't know, but it looked as if Duncan was taking advantage of Cailan's bedazzled state. And why wouldn't he? The Wardens desperatly need a king to give them support.
I think that's what ticked Loghain off.

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Of course he took advantage of it, he knew there was a Blight and an Archdemon, and he desperately needed support. Especially the support of the king.

When you first arrive at Ostagar you can call the king stupid and criticize his behaviour either explicitly or implicity. Duncan basically shushes you and says that he's one of the few who support the Wardens, and they need all the support they can get.

[Realmzmaster]

I do not think even Duncan could have made Cailan see reason. Cailan may have thought it better to die a glorious death than a life in the shadow of his father and wife. Maybe he thought as the Klingons do. "Today is a good day to die." Rather have glory and honor in death than live a life in obscurity. But also it would not be in the Grey Warden's best interest to dissuade Cailan. Cannot stop a Blight with no army to help you get to the ArchDemon.

The Grey Wardens could also use the credo, "By any means necessary" .

[RangerSG]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I agree that Cailan's infatuation with the Wardens and glory is not primarly the Warden's doing. But then again, we don't really see Duncan slapping some sense in the guy (metaphorically speaking of course). I don't know, but it looked as if Duncan was taking advantage of Cailan's bedazzled state. And why wouldn't he? The Wardens desperatly need a king to give them support.
I think that's what ticked Loghain off.

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Of course he took advantage of it, he knew there was a Blight and an Archdemon, and he desperately needed support. Especially the support of the king.

When you first arrive at Ostagar you can call the king stupid and criticize his behaviour either explicitly or implicity. Duncan basically shushes you and says that he's one of the few who support the Wardens, and they need all the support they can get.

Exactly, my Dalish elf gave the, "You could if he wasn't such a fool," line to Duncan. Duncan's response is not to defend Cailan's wisdom, but rather to say, "Look, we need him."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement from someone who knows Cailan very well.