279 réponses à ce sujet

[me0120]

Honestly, the same can be said for quite a few other kits. I'd like to hear someone trying to explain how playing a BW GI without consumables is more challenging than playing a Predator VM with level III/IV equipment.

I just want to point out that no consumables GI vs Predator VM + consumables isn't the argument. This is the same thing as saying that lvl 0 Drell with a crappy weapon with all 3/4 consumables is harder than GI with any weapon and no consumables.

This all should be about any build presenting more difficulty without consumables than the same build using consumables. Plus, if I could present the same difficulty without consumables and with consumables, I would pick the one without consumables so I could use those consumables at another time.

[MaxCrushmore]

Dolun, nowhere in my post did I mention N7 rating. And having started so many alt accounts, I am many times the sub N7 120 player without much of anything to use.

 

That is how I know how limiting not using consumables is. I can carry a Gold match to success using an HA without equipment or mods, but it will take upwards of 30 minutes. And for what? Especially when you can use an ammo mod and speed the game up by 4 - 8 minutes.

 

Any account with over 150 hours of play (assuming that player regularly completes the wave 10 objective) will have more consumables to use that they could ever run out of. So why not use them? By that logic, why spec all the skill points in your kit? I mean it obviously makes the game easier, so why do it?

 

And there is no excuse for players to enter Gold or Plat matches without in game consumables to use. That is simply being a leech, especially when there are going to be times where the mission success may hinge on that 1 player dropping a missile, or popping a med gel when they die away from the hack / escort.

 

To reiterate, in my experience, the players who don't equip mods or gear are FAR less likely to use in game consumables. Again, this is based on observing thousands of different players

[Wizard of Ox]

I just want to point out that no consumables GI vs Predator VM + consumables isn't the argument. This is the same thing as saying that lvl 0 Drell with a crappy weapon with all 3/4 consumables is harder than GI with any weapon and no consumables.

This all should be about any build presenting more difficulty without consumables than the same build using consumables. Plus, if I could present the same difficulty without consumables and with consumables, I would pick the one without consumables so I could use those consumables at another time.

 

I just wanted to point out that not using consumables on the GI is not gimping yourself as much as using retarded build/weapons with consumables… The argument was that restraining yourself to a handful of kits you can deal good damage with without consumables is no way of making the game harder. 

[LemurFromTheId]

Here's the perfect build for anyone who wants the full GI experience but doesn't want the game to be too easy:

 

http://kalence.drupa...!44135!!!111..S

[megabeast37215]

Human Adept, Asari Adept -- rarely, mostly to close appropriate mastery.
Volus Adept or Volus Vanguard, ACA -- rarely, as soldiers.
Fury, Asari Justicar -- moderately.
Grenadeless Drell Adept -- rarely, mostly for trolling.
Other adepts -- almost never.
 
Grenadeless Krogan Soldier -- rarely, mostly for trolling.
Grenadeless Batarian Soldier -- rarely these times, moderately in the past.
Flamerless Vorcha Soldier -- moderately, mostly for trolling.
N7 Destroyer -- moderately though I dislike his slowness.
Stimpackless Turian Havoc -- moderately, love him.
Flamerless GT -- rarely, mostly for fun with Scorpion or to closing Javelin.
Juggernaut -- moderately though it's not easy to find lobby without SP delay.
Other soldiers -- almost never.
 
Engineers -- Vorcha and Turian moderately,  other -- almost never.
 
Grenadeless Krogan Sentinel -- moderately.
Batarian Sentinel -- rarely.
Passiveless Paladin -- moderately, nearly love him, but not much.
Asari Valkyrie -- rarely, mostly for AF closing.
Krogan Warlord -- rarely, mostly for Black Widow closing.
Other sentinels -- almost never.
 
Human Infiltrator -- rarely, he/she is pointless for me.
Salarian Infiltrator -- rarely, mostly for closing ED and Valiant.
GI -- well, you know.
Pure melee N7 Shadow without ES -- love her.
Stimpackless Turian Ghost -- rarely, mostly for Overload closing.
Drell Assassin -- rarely, can't handle his mine properly.
Asari Huntress -- rarely, she's too fragile for me.
RM-less AIU -- rarely, mosly for SF closing.
Other infiltrators -- almost never.
 
P.S. Totally forgot about vanguards, no wonder.
Mostly Cabal, others -- almost never.

So.. you rarely to almost never play 80-90%+ of the kits in the game.. just like Kislitsin.

L O L

I'm done with you dude.

[Kislitsin]

Honestly, Junker, I don't understand all that no consumables thing.

Actually, I can understand going into battle w/o armor or weapon bonus. I rarely use something other than lvl1-2 for those slots on gold. I use powerful to op guns that are quite good even w/o amps on non-filtrators (assuming I still can oneclip stuff w phoon/lazor etc).

But I can not understand ignoring the ammo consumables. You can compensate for no cyclonics/am with better awareness. You can compensate for no weapon amp by using powerful kit and headshoting stuff. But you can't compensate the lack of free penetration, ammo priming, ohk capability of sssnipers.

They are a make or break. Shooting the brute for 5-10 sec's longer doesn't make you a better skilled player.

[The Last]

Dolun, nowhere in my post did I mention N7 rating. And having started so many alt accounts, I am many times the sub N7 120 player without much of anything to use.

 

That is how I know how limiting not using consumables is. I can carry a Gold match to success using an HA without equipment or mods, but it will take upwards of 30 minutes. And for what? Especially when you can use an ammo mod and speed the game up by 4 - 8 minutes.

 

Any account with over 150 hours of play (assuming that player regularly completes the wave 10 objective) will have more consumables to use that they could ever run out of. So why not use them? By that logic, why spec all the skill points in your kit? I mean it obviously makes the game easier, so why do it?

 

And there is no excuse for players to enter Gold or Plat matches without in game consumables to use. That is simply being a leech, especially when there are going to be times where the mission success may hinge on that 1 player dropping a missile, or popping a med gel when they die away from the hack / escort.

 

To reiterate, in my experience, the players who don't equip mods or gear are FAR less likely to use in game consumables. Again, this is based on observing thousands of different players

 

So you don't pay attention to who drops in your lobby, that explains a lot. If games are running that long its obviously not about the consumables, its about the people you are playing with.

[MaxCrushmore]

But I can not understand ignoring the ammo consumables. You can compensate for no cyclonics/am with better awareness. You can compensate for no weapon amp by using powerful kit and headshoting stuff. But you can't compensate the lack of free penetration, ammo priming, ohk capability of sssnipers.

They are a make or break. Shooting the brute for 5-10 sec's longer doesn't make you a better skilled player.

 

^This

 

 

Dolun, on what criteria are you evaluating players in your lobby? It's certainly not a lack of consumables you're noticing or caring about .. so I don't really understand your comment ... And I certainly DO notice when the people in the lobby don't have consumables .. that's how I know those matches take longer.

 

I used to not look at other players setups at all .. but then the failed MGers started making their way into Gold .. so I had to start paying attention.

[junker1990]

But I can not understand ignoring the ammo consumables. You can compensate for no cyclonics/am with better awareness. You can compensate for no weapon amp by using powerful kit and headshoting stuff. But you can't compensate the lack of free penetration, ammo priming, ohk capability of sssnipers.

 

 

There is nothing to "compensate". Penetration is aquired by weapon mods, ammo combos just are out of my world (combos are for casters, that's it), and I have enough headshots even without consumables.

 

They are a make or break. Shooting the brute for 5-10 sec's longer doesn't make you a better skilled player.

 

I'm not pretended.

[Kislitsin]

There is nothing to "compensate". Penetration is aquired by weapon mods, ammo combos just are out of my world (combos are for casters, that's it), and I have enough headshots even without consumables.

Unless you use an innate piercer (widows, jav, crusader, EP, Typhoon) you will loose damage on penetration. Extended barrel + some piercing ammo = no loss of damage on penetration.

Should I mention how phasics change jav and widow?

[cato potato]

So you don't pay attention to who drops in your lobby, that explains a lot. If games are running that long its obviously not about the consumables, its about the people you are playing with.

 

Eh? Am I missing something? Where did Max state that he doesn't pay attention to who drops into his lobby?

 

You're obviously a scrub, dolun. I bet you even apply all your character skill points and put on weapon mods. Pfft, I suppose that's helpful for those players who need them.

[The Last]

Dolun, on what criteria are you evaluating players in your lobby? It's certainly not a lack of consumables you're noticing or caring about 

 

N7 of at least 120, under tells me they lack everything I state below and no need to look further.

Challenge points varies, but I look for around 5k or so, they could have gotten a few good weapon, med gel, and ops pack upgrades by then.

Other is weapons, but i don't care as long as it is decent.

Never care about consumables, their perm gear mod slot is always filled.

 

I rarely have a problem, I had the problem when I brought 2 or 3 sub 120's in a game though.

 

 

I bet you even apply all your character skill points and put on weapon mods. Pfft, I suppose that's helpful for those players who need them.

 

.....

[Maurader Sackboy]

When I quick search for a random game, I'll put on lower level consumables -- the risk of total loss is much greater dropping into an ongoing match (possibilities for  WFOP hang, horrible lag, really bad pugs, etc.)  If I land in an actual lobby I'll likely switch out for  better consumables if the team looks o.k.

 

It's especially NOT FAIR if I get stuck WFOP and cancel out I lose my consumables. Once I made & ate a sandwich while WFOP (to see what would happen) and got "You were kicked ... " and still lost consumables (wasn't really 'kicked' since countdown had finished). WTF.

[WarCry_87]

A lot of hate here ,  not that im dissagreeing with any of you.. I think you're both right (the leechers and the haters)

 

I want to specify first, before I get some rage over me..

 

If I see a guy on platinum without equip, I kick him. Very occasionally I let them play, but only to laugh my ass off to see them suffering.

 

When I see a player on gold without equip, I look which character, which gun and with what mods he uses. If I see a projectile weapon with armorpiercing mod => kick. If I like what I see (char, gun, mods) I'll msg him, asking why he doesnt use any equip. If his answer is somewhat decent, I'll let him play. I'll even revive him, however if he dies a lot and doesnt do any dmg, next time I see him, he gets das boot.

 

It's their life, their equip, their experience. If they wanna suffer thru a whole gold game, be my guest. I dont give a ****.

 

For me the most important thing is, that people use their gels! Seen many players using great equip (lvl 4 this and that) first time they cant be revived, they bleed out. Those scrubs are the real problem for me, cause in the end, staying alive helps me and rest of the team a lot.

 

The answer to the topic at hand is simple, they are the first to ready up becuz they dont need to search which equip they'll use, nor change their character becuz they use the same dull setup over and over again. They are leechers, but the world is full of it, even outside the game. I dont waste my energy on them anymore..

[Computron2000]

If a real challenge is desired, do the following

i) Solo

ii) Gold/Cerberus/Glacier or Plat/Geth/Jade

iii) Before start of wave 1, fire all your missiles and use all your thermal clips.

iv) Use a kit that has no cloak, no charge, no teleport dodge. Kit must be able to gain tech and biotic medals either through direct powers or bursts (for best challenge, use a no dodge character with 1 point assigned to a biotic and/or tech power)

v) Use 2 different weapons (for more fun use an avenger and a katana)

vi) Get gold grabs/tech/biotic/weapon 1/weapon 2/20 headshots and at least silver melee (ie 7 gold and 1 silver or ~275 kills, extra kudos on all 8 gold)

vii) Get 10 waves survived

viii) Do it naked with no consumables or level 1 ammo if you have no ability to get tech medals normally

 

This will test your ability to remember how many you killed, what you killed with and what medals are missing while under fire. You are also forced to NOT kill some stuff because they are too expensive budget wise so you would not hit the required gold medals. This means sucking enemy fire while looking for the cheap troops in a small map as extending objective waves and wave 11 only gets you that much. No fallbacks like missiles and the luck of the draw giving you devices on wave 10 will make things challenging.

 

Without modding off sync kill percentages, enemy aim (like some fury did), objective types, etc of course.

 

Edit: The above conditions are harsh as hell but 7 gold 1 silver is doable. I've done 8 gold/10 ws on the turian sent but that was before gold melee moved from 15 to 50 and on gold/dagger/geth, level 20, level 3 consumables and get out of jail missiles (way less harsh than the above but hey if you want an absolute challenge...) so 7 gold+1 silver should be eminently doable still

[Ribosome]

Avenger HSol is an awesome time. Give your lame-ass infiltrators a rest for at least one game and try it

[Caineghis2500]

Avenger HSol is an awesome time. Give your lame-ass infiltrators a rest for at least one game and try it

Hsol is also great with the GPR. I run a CS spam build with incendiary rounds for lots of fire boom fun

[LaughingBanana]

Hmmm well, technically yes, you *can* contribute to and finish up even Gold/Platinum matches without consumables, but that's just like saying that when you are in the US and you want to get to Japan you're trying to get there by canoing on the ocean instead of just you know, get a ticket and fly in a plane over there.

 

I mean, you *can* canoeing your way from the US to Japan, but why would anyone not crazy enough will be willing to do that?

[Credit2team]

saw a fury adept do this in a gold lobby yesterday, ended up in last place, it was sweet justice

[Chealec]

Hsol is also great with the GPR. I run a CS spam build with incendiary rounds for lots of fire boom fun

 

Or Indra with Cryo ammo - SRs are great for pasting ammo effects and you can get a 200% CD with the Indra, so mucho conc-shot spammo.

[The Last]

Hmmm well, technically yes, you *can* contribute to and finish up even Gold/Platinum matches without consumables, but that's just like saying that when you are in the US and you want to get to Japan you're trying to get there by canoing on the ocean instead of just you know, get a ticket and fly in a plane over there.

 

I mean, you *can* canoeing your way from the US to Japan, but why would anyone not crazy enough will be willing to do that?

 

I'm talking about gold, not platinum in my cases.

 

Your situation describes the time to finish games takes longer. The time on completion is based on the teams overall effectiveness in the match, objectives and all. My games last 20-25 minutes, and that Is in an average PUG with or without consumables. I've looked at some of these livestreams you people were making, and your completion times are the same as mine.

 

I was told that with using consumables your game time completion should magically speed up by 4-8 minutes. Based on my time of completion, in a pug you should consistently be finishing between 12-17 minutes, no excuses.  In speed runs with good players I believe that time is achievable, but in a pug with randomly skilled people, that's just not happening. Skill matters in time completion, not consumables. And, that's the "consumables makes your time go faster" claim down.

[megabeast37215]

I'm talking about gold, not platinum in my cases.
 
Your situation describes the time to finish games takes longer. The time on completion is based on the teams overall effectiveness in the match, objectives and all. My games last 20-25 minutes, and that Is in an average PUG with or without consumables. I've looked at some of these livestreams you people were making, and your completion times are the same as mine.
 
I was told that with using consumables your game time completion should magically speed up by 4-8 minutes. Based on my time of completion, in a pug you should consistently be finishing between 12-17 minutes, no excuses.  In speed runs with good players I believe that time is achievable, but in a pug with randomly skilled people, that's just not happening. Skill matters in time completion, not consumables. And, that's the "consumables makes your time go faster" claim down.

Bullcrap. Weapon/kit choice has a lot to do with it too.

[Computron2000]

I'm talking about gold, not platinum in my cases.

 

Your situation describes the time to finish games takes longer. The time on completion is based on the teams overall effectiveness in the match, objectives and all. My games last 20-25 minutes, and that Is in an average PUG with or without consumables. I've looked at some of these livestreams you people were making, and your completion times are the same as mine.

 

I was told that with using consumables your game time completion should magically speed up by 4-8 minutes. Based on my time of completion, in a pug you should consistently be finishing between 12-17 minutes, no excuses.  In speed runs with good players I believe that time is achievable, but in a pug with randomly skilled people, that's just not happening. Skill matters in time completion, not consumables. And, that's the "consumables makes your time go faster" claim down.

 

See, you live streaming people suck compare to the god that is dolun. He does what you people do WITHOUT CONSUMABLES!!!! Bow down and worship him as all of you are useless and unworthy!!!!

 

Then again, my average completion times is plat wave 11 in 4 to 5 minutes. Don't believe me? Well prove me wrong!

[The Last]

Bullcrap. Weapon/kit choice has a lot to do with it too.

 

Damn, forgot to add that in there

 

 

See, you live streaming people suck compare to the god that is dolun. He does what you people do WITHOUT CONSUMABLES!!!! Bow down and worship him as all of you are useless and unworthy!!!!

 

Then again, my average completion times is plat wave 11 in 4 to 5 minutes. Don't believe me? Well prove me wrong!

 

Where in there did I say they suck....just nvm.