76 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

I got a *little* sidetracked on this playthough. I am actually just about to start the Disabled Collector Ship mission soon to get the Claymore, and then I can go about playing around with the different builds and suggestions from you guys. Although I am slowly getting used to a Charge-heavy playstyle again, so I may find it difficult to switch it around.

[a_mouse]

Take pictures!

[RedCaesar97]

Yeah, so I decided to continue the playthrough, and figured, why not record it.

 

Here's a summary of how I did:

 

Death.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Okay, now I am playing like I used to oh no wait I died again.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Oh for goodness sakes, grrrrrrr....

Load last save on Normandy, try new mission.

There we go, now that's more like it. Still rusty, but now I am making progress.

Hey, I finally feel like I am playing well again. Better save here just in case.

Well that part was easy. Now on to the hard part.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Death.

Quit.

[cap and gown]

Heh. Recording is a jinx. I died more times in my last hardcore run than I did in my first insanity run. It was especially humiliating to be taken out by three measly Loki Mechs on the Shadow Broker ship.    And I just did Cronos Station where I almost never have problems when fighting on the catwalk around the human reaper, but this time phantoms kept sneaking up behind me and killing me. In fact, I think the current playthrough is the only time I have ever been sync killed in SP, once by a Banshee during the 1st Leviathan mission, and the second by a Phantom on Cronos Station.

[capn233]

Was that with a typical Charge style?

 

Playing either of the other two in the series always causes me trouble when going back to ME2.

[RedCaesar97]

Was that with a typical Charge style?

 

Playing either of the other two in the series always causes me trouble when going back to ME2.

 

I was trying to play a combination of a laid-back style with Pull and Shockwave and a more aggressive style with Area Charge. 

 

I tried playing Samara's Recruitment Mission with Miranda and Garrus. Garrus kind of sucks on that mission. Then I took the same squad to Tali's Recruitment Mission where Garrus did a lot better, but I kept getting beat down by the Colossus for some reason.

[a_mouse]

Heh. Recording is a jinx. I died more times in my last hardcore run than I did in my first insanity run. It was especially humiliating to be taken out by three measly Loki Mechs on the Shadow Broker ship.    And I just did Cronos Station where I almost never have problems when fighting on the catwalk around the human reaper, but this time phantoms kept sneaking up behind me and killing me. In fact, I think the current playthrough is the only time I have ever been sync killed in SP, once by a Banshee during the 1st Leviathan mission, and the second by a Phantom on Cronos Station.

The key to battling Murphy's law is to have the recorder on all the time (just capturing everything while you play quasi-normally), then sort out the choice bits later.  Even still, Murphy's Law is a pretty powerful force.  Sadly, many of the the most amazing and/or ridiculous things that I've seen happen in ME2 occurred when the recorder was off for some reason or another...

[capn233]

I was trying to play a combination of a laid-back style with Pull and Shockwave and a more aggressive style with Area Charge. 

 

I tried playing Samara's Recruitment Mission with Miranda and Garrus. Garrus kind of sucks on that mission. Then I took the same squad to Tali's Recruitment Mission where Garrus did a lot better, but I kept getting beat down by the Colossus for some reason.

 

I just did Haestrom the other day as the Adept.  Garrus and Miri.  I stupidly went on the ground at the end to get the Colossus and as such had to deal with the neverending Geth reinforcements.  That was irritating and was one of the longer times I took to do that fight.

 

As for Justicar, you know me, I take Garrus nearly everywhere.  He is a little less useful against Eclipse than Blue Suns, but still ok.  As far as power, Miri-Kasumi is hard to beat there, at least as a Vanguard.

 

I need to do that mission as the Adept, I have been putting it off.

[RedCaesar97]

I think I have settled on my final build:

 

4 - Inferno Ammo

0 - Cryo Ammo

4 - Area Charge (just to be different)

4 - Pull Field

4 - Improved Shockwave

4 - Champion

1 - Stasis

 

I have used Reave for a bit, but did not find it all that useful when Pull or Charge would work better. I used it on Mordin's and Grunt's loyalty missions, but only because Reave > Mordin Cryo Blast is too good to pass up.

 

Also, finally beat Samara's mission in one shot, although it took me a while to do that. It is readily apparent that I absolutely suck with the Vanguard. 

[a_mouse]

Oh goody.  Stasis rank 1 - my favorite! 

 

But I'm thinking now that you have some experience with this build, you should run a level (that you know well) twice, comparing Claymore vs. favorite SG of your choice (Katana if I recall).  Then report back how you felt about that little test...

[RedCaesar97]

Since I picked up the Claymore, I will stick with the Claymore. If I was going to use another shotgun, I would have picked up the Sniper Rifle Training instead to get the Viper. But if I did that, then I may as well have used my original Vanguard which has pretty much the exact same build (it has Heavy Charge instead of Area Charge).

 

I actually have not played in the past few days because of lack of time, but hopefully I can start playing it again soon. If only because I need to start learning how to play well again. I keep sucking with the Vanguard. I was never that good with the Vanguard to begin with, but still...

 

And for the record, I know all the levels pretty well, its just actually playing the levels well -- or at least half decently -- is my problem. 

 

Hopefully I start playing better soon. I keep wishing I had switched to an Adept instead.

[a_mouse]

And for the record, I know all the levels pretty well, its just actually playing the levels well -- or at least half decently -- is my problem. 

Sorry, bad choice of words on my part.  You know all the levels of this game better than most people (including me) ever will.  What I meant was to replay a level you have played recently with the current build (and thus have muscle memory for), and then compare directly with and without Claymore.  Which was easier?  Which did you like better?  Which was more synergistic with your semi-Adept playstyle for this character.  I am not suggesting you change your build for the rest of the game - just humor me for an hour or so with a little side project...

[cap and gown]

Red,

 

I just started a ME2 insanity run as an Adept. I am about to hit Freedom's Progress. If you want to feel better about your gameplay, you can stop by occasionally and watch me get my ass kicked.

[RedCaesar97]

 just humor me for an hour or so with a little side project...

I'll see what I can do. I should have a lot of time this weekend, but hopefully I can get to it sooner than that.

[RedCaesar97]

What I meant was to replay a level you have played recently with the current build (and thus have muscle memory for), and then compare directly with and without Claymore.  Which was easier?  Which did you like better?  Which was more synergistic with your semi-Adept playstyle for this character.  I am not suggesting you change your build for the rest of the game - just humor me for an hour or so with a little side project...

 

If you want a visual comparison:

Recruiting Tali with the Claymore.

Recruiting Tali with the Katana.

 

They were about the same. Die a bunch of times at the beginning, then finished it in one take. 

I probably died more times with the Claymore first, but that was because it was spread out over a couple of days. And it has less to do with the shotgun, but rather me getting greedy and overestimating my ability to stay out of cover for stretches of time, and me making some really bad decisions.

 

Also, I really screwed up with reload cancel and the shoot-melee timing with the Katana. Once I got those kinks ironed out, it went a little smoother.

 

I will probably do this for a few missions, switching weapons out.

[a_mouse]

^wow, tough to call.  The way you are using the shotgun it is mostly single target ambush and cleanup.  For this the Claymore has the appeal of being able to take out the chosen enemy in one shot without fuss.  However, the few times you chose (or were forced) to juggle two or more enemies, to my eye you seemed to do better with the Katana.  With the Claymore you kept getting stuck out reloading, while with the Katana you got in an alternating fire-melee groove, and could roll with the punches better (using cover and position to limit who was shooting at you).

 

The nice thing about the Katana is the total stun lock you can achieve on an enemy (fire-melee-fire-melee-etc).  The only drawback is the weaker damage, which in this case usually required you to fire a 2nd shot to finish off an ordinary mook.  I think this may be why I like the Evi better - it can usually drop an ordinary enemy with one shot and one melee, which is not much less time than the Claymore, but leaves two shots in the clip, making it better in a crowd than the Claymore.  (Basically a compromise between Katana and Claymore).  

 

Funny, that last bit I always go up the left flank to avoid artillery and getting flanked.  But the overwatch position you show on the right (where you finally attack the Colossus from) is way better.  Will have to try that next time...

[RedCaesar97]

The nice thing about the Katana is the total stun lock you can achieve on an enemy (fire-melee-fire-melee-etc).  The only drawback is the weaker damage, which in this case usually required you to fire a 2nd shot to finish off an ordinary mook.  I think this may be why I like the Evi better - it can usually drop an ordinary enemy with one shot and one melee, which is not much less time than the Claymore, but leaves two shots in the clip, making it better in a crowd than the Claymore.  (Basically a compromise between Katana and Claymore).

That is why I like the Katana: that shot-melee groove you can get into. The Eviscerator is good for one shot - one melee kills on mooks, but it has too long of a fire delay if you need to shoot it again. You can go toe-to-toe with double-protected enemies (armor+shields) and completely stunlock them with the Katana, but cannot really do that with the Eviscerator.
 
I think the shotguns are really well balanced in ME2. While the Claymore is exclusive to the Soldier and Vanguard, they still pretty much come down to preference to whichever one you like best. The Katana tends to get overlooked since a lot of people look at it and consider it "just as starter weapon".
 
 

Funny, that last bit I always go up the left flank to avoid artillery and getting flanked.  But the overwatch position you show on the right (where you finally attack the Colossus from) is way better.  Will have to try that next time...

I almost exclusively go left myself, I decided to to the right side this time, if only because a few days ago I was getting annihilated whenever I decided to go left.

[a_mouse]

That is why I like the Katana: that shot-melee groove you can get into. The Eviscerator is good for one shot - one melee kills on mooks, but it has too long of a fire delay if you need to shoot it again. You can go toe-to-toe with double-protected enemies (armor+shields) and completely stunlock them with the Katana, but cannot really do that with the Eviscerator.

For this reason I actually think Katana reigns supreme in ME2 for elimination of a single heavy target (provided it can be stunlocked).  For me (since I am often CQing in a crowd), the issue comes down to how much damage you take from the current target vs. how much you get from his buds.  With Katana it takes longer to eliminate the target, so even if he remains stunlocked, you may end up taking more hits from adjacent (or overwatching) units.  With Evi, although you sometimes get counterpunches from the enemy you are actively working on, it takes much less time to eliminate him, so you can move on to adjacent enemies before they can react, reload, etc.  Example at 2:08 in this vid, or 5:02 of this vid.  

 

At the other end of this extreme is the Claymore, which, although it can silence any given enemy the quickest, can often leave you with your pants down when it comes to his buddies.  Ironically, I think this factor actually makes the Claymore a poor choice for CQC (yes, herecy I know...) if it were not for Inferno Ammo.  With IA you can take better advantage of the one-shot protection stripping, relying on fire panic for the adjacent crowd.  So perhaps on Geth this is not quite a fair comparison for Mr. Clay.  On the other hand (if we are allowing ammo powers into the comparison), if you'd taken Zaeed for squad disruptor, it would have favored Katana even more.  

 

In any case, though, I totally agree that SG's are well balanced in ME2.  Your demo here just provides more support for this view.  Thanks for humoring me!

[RedCaesar97]

I actually do agree with you about the Eviscerator.

 

I tend to use it as a "baby Claymore" on some Vanguards if I will be switching to the Claymore later.

I use it occasionally on some infiltrators, although I prefer the Scimitar on Infiltrators.

I like using it with Adepts, since I can use it to kill an enemy caught in Singularity without having to step inside the Singularity radius, causing the Singularity to collapse.

 

I just have a preference for the Katana. I like its sound, and the shoot-melee rhythm you can get into. 

 

I am just playing this particular Vanguard as a more biotic-focused Vanguard, so I am not getting into any sort of reload-cancelling Claymore groove.

[RedCaesar97]

Vuck the Fanguard.

 

I played several hours on Sunday without much trouble; only Jacob's loyalty mission frustrated me.

Pop in the game Monday night and I suck all sorts of ass. Miranda's loyalty mission has always been sort of a pain for me. It is one of those missions where I either do really well, or really poorly (mostly poorly).

 

 

Also, a question of sorts: I am recording the missions, but does anyone really care if -- when I do get around to playing the Arrival DLC -- I do not bother with the Object Rho segment? I am thinking of attempting it a couple of times, but if I cannot do it, then I think I will just go down willingly to get it over with. I doubt anyone cares about this playthrough anyway.

[cap and gown]

Once I got the achievement I never bothered with surviving the horde. I just run out into the middle of the pack and get it over with.

[a_mouse]

I guess that depends. If you discover some awesome new way to beat the level that is unique to an Adept-like Vanguard, it would be great to see it.  Actually, I find it to be a great practice level for finding weaknesses in a build (at least against shielded enemies).

[RedCaesar97]

Just a quick rant.

 

Not sure when it happened, but it feels like i totally forgot how to play Mass Effect 2, or at least the Vanguard in ME2. I finally -- FINALLY -- beat Miranda's loyalty mission with the Vanguard. I think i died somewhere around 50 times. And no, that is not an exaggeration. I deleted about half my deaths unfortunately(?) so i will never know the exact total, but for goodness sakes, I nearly threw my controller through a wall. (But did not, because repairing walls is hard work).

 

I know that I have never been good at this game, and sometimes I just suck up the joint. But never that many times with any class on any one mission with just such insipidly stupid mistakes.

 

At first I tried beating it with the Claymore. After countless attempts over 2-3 days, I gave up. Today, I tried doing it with the Katana. I played it about the same as I would with the Claymore, and somehow managed to beat it with only a few deaths (about 6 or so). I switched back to the Claymore and it was like I had never picked up a controller before. Just incredibly frustrating trying to figure out why I was playing so terribly.

 

And the incredibly stupid thing is, I want to beat this mission with all shotguns. just for comparison's sake. I am going to be in for a world of hurt.

 

I will probably end up compiling a video of most of my deaths. Hopefully that will be somewhat therapeutic. 

[a_mouse]

It's a bit of a tricky level.  Many different types of units (including heavy, advancing, and artillery), and they come at you from odd directions - very easy to get flanked (especially the finale where you battle Enyala).  It's about the worst scenario you can envision for a Claymore, since it is nearly impossible to find isolated enemies that are not backed by a lot of covering fire, and you need to switch quickly between offense and defense quite a bit.  I'm not surprised you found it easier going with the Katana.

 

One thing that I found helps with this level (any class, but especially with slow-fire shotgun) is to practice classic WWII trench-clearing tactics.  Basically you want to get inside the enemies' own trench, and use it yourself for cover.  Plant you team in a well covered area at one end to protect your rear (reviving them as needed with medigel), and then work the other direction, clearing units out of the trench as you go. Do not expose yourself to fire or attack units outside the trench.  Rather, work you way up the trench, CQ'ing units as you go.  With this approach, a Claymore with IA will help rather than hinder.  Once you get upper hand (by getting a bead on enemies from multiple directions), switch to ranged weapons and exploit.

[RedCaesar97]

Miranda's loyalty mission: 47 deaths in 7 1/2 minutes.

 

And for the record, I never bothered to complete the mission with the Geth Plasma Shotgun. All the fun had gotten sucked out of me by that point and I did not think it was worth it to continue. I have not even touched the game in about a week. I should start playing it again this weekend since I am near the end. Just a few more missions to go.