100 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Doesn't the murder in question have to be a crime for him to be considered a criminal?

Genocides aren't crimes to the nations who cause them, yet are still crimes to others. Same principle, just smaller scale.

[ladyofpayne]

Warden is younger. He can be Michel

[Former_Fiend]

Even if I thought he looked young, which I don't(and I know plenty of men in their twenties with comparable beards, so that isn't clouding my judgement), that still wouldn't explain why Michel would join the wardens.

[ladyofpayne]

Even if I thought he looked young, which I don't(and I know plenty of men in their twenties with comparable beards, so that isn't clouding my judgement), that still wouldn't explain why Michel would join the wardens.

Why? In the eyes of Celene he is traitor. She will execute him if she caughts Michel.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why? In the eyes of Celene he is traitor.

So he just runs off. She has bigger things to worry about than a single traitor, such as the traitor who leads an army of traitors. 

[Former_Fiend]

Why? In the eyes of Celene he is traitor.

 

Which has nothing to do with the price of whores in Antiva.

 

The end of The Masked Empire gives Michel's motivation as hunting down Imshael. From a writing stand point it makes absolutely no sense to give that impression only for the game to say "But on a whim, he decided to join the wardens instead, only to leave them scarce months later to join with the Inquisition. Because Imshael's someone else's problem now."

 

It's not like joining the Wardens would actually offer him any protection if he thought Celene would dedicate any effort at all to bringing him to justice. If she wanted him dead, she'd assassinate him regardless of which organization he sought refuge in. 

[ladyofpayne]

So he just runs off. She has bigger things to worry about than a single traitor, such as the traitor who leads an army of traitors. 

He can run off but not so far- he is alone, no food no money.

[Ispan]

He can run off but not so far- he is alone, no food no money.

 

He can kill 3 people with nothing but a blanket.  I think he can find some food on his own.

[Joe25]

He can run off but not so far- he is alone, no food no money.

Plus he took Gaspar's sword arm, he still has Celene's jewels, and the Chevalier's want him dead for being a half blood. A lot of people want him dead 

[Former_Fiend]

Plus he took Gaspar's sword arm, he still has Celene's jewels, and the Chevalier's want him dead for being a half blood.  

 

1: Gaspard doesn't bear him any grudge regarding that.

 

2: So he has valuables to trade for food, excellent

 

3: There is no indication that the chevaliers know that; Gaspard, at least, keeps the secret. Celene might spill it out of spite, but we have no implication that she will. 

[The Night Haunter]

1: Gaspard doesn't bear him any grudge regarding that.

 

2: So he has valuables to trade for food, excellent

 

3: There is no indication that the chevaliers know that; Gaspard, at least, keeps the secret. Celene might spill it out of spite, but we have no implication that she will. 

All this.

Michel isn't desperate by a long shot. If Gaspard wins he's pretty much all set. If Celene wins he needs to defect to Navara, but until then Celene has people actively trying to kill her to worry about, rather than hunting down a skilled knight who is, himself, hunting a demon that is a threat to all Orlais (and Thedas at large).

[Joe25]

1: Gaspard doesn't bear him any grudge regarding that.

 

2: So he has valuables to trade for food, excellent

 

3: There is no indication that the chevaliers know that; Gaspard, at least, keeps the secret. Celene might spill it out of spite, but we have no implication that she will. 

1: Gaspard wanted him as his champion for that, and he walked away

 

2: Celene has lost one of her main tools for the Game.

 

3: If Celene doesn't spill her reputation can be hurt even more than it is. And, Gaspard's honor code is not above using that to hurt Celene.   

[The Night Haunter]

1: Gaspard wanted him as his champion for that, and he walked away

 

2: Celene has lost one of her main tools for the Game.

 

3: If Celene doesn't spill her reputation can be hurt even more than it is. And, Gaspard's honor code is not above using that to hurt Celene.   

I think what you mean is if Celene does spill it will hurt her reputation. As it is no-one knows she picked a half-elven Champion, and no-one knows her champions betrayed (ish) her. If she reveals that information then it weakens her, she picked an elven champion, and on top of that she couldn't even keep who should be her most loyal defender in line, with that knowledge why would any other noble side with her?

 

It is in Celene's best interests to ignore Michel until she secures the throne.

[Former_Fiend]

1: Gaspard wanted him as his champion for that, and he walked away

 

2: Celene has lost one of her main tools for the Game.

 

3: If Celene doesn't spill her reputation can be hurt even more than it is. And, Gaspard's honor code is not above using that to hurt Celene.   

 

1: Gaspard specifically doesn't make Michel an offer to join with him because he knows it would be an insult to the man's honor.

 

2. Again, not seeing the relevance of this.

 

3. If Celene does expose Michel's secret it could hurt her. Gaspard's main line against her was her sympathy for elves; taking one as her lover. If it got out that her champion was a half blood, even if she denied knowledge of it, he would only add fuel to the fires against her. Conversely, Gaspard is absolutely above sacrificing his honor in favor of more practical decisions. That he kills Duke Remarche, his most powerful political ally, simply out of honor, is proof of this.

[Ispan]

1: Gaspard wanted him as his champion for that, and he walked away

 

2: Celene has lost one of her main tools for the Game.

 

3: If Celene doesn't spill her reputation can be hurt even more than it is. And, Gaspard's honor code is not above using that to hurt Celene.   

 

I don't think Gaspard would use Michel's secret even to hurt Celene.  He holds tightest to his honor code when it involves other chevalier and he makes a point of saying to Michel "You're the damned model for a chevalier, no matter what blood runs in your veins" and "You are a chevalier.  What you do with it is up to you" so I don't see him forsaking his honor on the elven blood technicality.  Gaspard says very clearly that he will not report Michel and asks him to "thank [him] by doing something good when it counts."  Gaspard might be a horrible ******* who skirts around his honor with non-chevalier, but he'd have to majorly break character to go back on everything he said and reveal Michel's secret.

[Todd23]

1: Gaspard wanted him as his champion for that, and he walked away
*snip

That's kind of ridiculous and beyond presumptuous.

I still don't understand why he confessed to being a half blood after yielding. The only reason he had to yield was as his part of his agreement with briala to keep his secret. He had no reason to tell everyone. If he was going to tell everyone anyways then there's no need for him to keep his end of the bargain in the first place and he wouldn't have needed to yield.
His options were between dishonor, yielding, and letting people find out he was a half blood... and he chose all three.

[The Night Haunter]

That's kind of ridiculous and beyond presumptuous.

I still don't understand why he confessed to being a half blood after yielding. The only reason he had to yield was as his part of his agreement with briala to keep his secret. He had no reason to tell everyone. If he was going to tell everyone anyways then there's no need for him to keep his end of the bargain in the first place and he wouldn't have needed to yield.
His options were between dishonor, yielding, and letting people find out he was a half blood... and he chose all three.

He had a single choice with his honor code. He promised a favor to Briala, and he couldn't refuse just because he didn't like it. He is guilty over failing Celene and thus explains his failure, and confides to Gaspard, a man with the same honor code. All his actions fall within his character. His honor is the most important thing to him.

[Joe25]

Note to self "highlight all Gaspard's line that have the word honor" I just got done with the book two weeks ago. Sorry, I must have glance over some things.   

[Ispan]

Note to self "highlight all Gaspard's line that have the word honor" I just got done with the book two weeks ago. Sorry, I must have glance over some things.   

 

No worries!  I sympathize with Gaspard in some ways but still hate his guts so a lot of the things he said really stuck with me.

[TurretSyndrome]

I'm not hoping for Michel to be the Grey Warden companion. Just have a hunch, that's all. I don't care either way.

[Former_Fiend]

Gaspard is a warmonger; I'm not going to defend that. But he is rather affable and holds to his code, so we don't have any reason to doubt that he's being sincere with the dialogue with Michel at the end. 

 

So Michel's secret is safe; it's in Celene's interest to keep it because it's revelation would only hurt her reputation, and Gaspard's sworn to keep it out of respect for Michel. So at the very least this means that the Chevaliers as a whole won't be hunting Michel down. 

[The Baconer]

Doesn't the murder in question have to be a crime for him to be considered a criminal?

 

The Inquisitor can certainly make it one. Though, how someone's Inquisitor will actually learn about this Chevalier hazing is another matter.

[berelinde]

That's kind of ridiculous and beyond presumptuous.

I still don't understand why he confessed to being a half blood after yielding. The only reason he had to yield was as his part of his agreement with briala to keep his secret. He had no reason to tell everyone. If he was going to tell everyone anyways then there's no need for him to keep his end of the bargain in the first place and he wouldn't have needed to yield.
His options were between dishonor, yielding, and letting people find out he was a half blood... and he chose all three.

He yielded because he swore an oath. He told everyone anyway so that the knowledge could never be used against him again. His illusions about the honor of his title were gone, and he was sick of hiding behind a lie.

[Gervaise]

Whilst I would rather like the option of having him as a companion, I think it far more likely that he will just crop up as a quest along the way.  May be if we help him he will then join our forces as a agent.   Then we might get the option of talking with him whilst at the keep.    He could be a very interesting character to interact with provided they don't kill him off just after we meet him.   May be Sera might know some of his history since she is a city elf.   At the very least she might have been witness to the Chevalier initiation when he and his fellows were sent on a killing spree in the alienage.   At some point I am hopeful that he is going to acknowledge how much of a betrayal that was to his mother's memory and will want to atone for that as well.

[AppealToReason]

I have a feeling we'll be walking through a field or canyon or something and see a dude hiding behind a rock staring at a demon and go "Yo homie, werd up?" and then the demon runs away like Suicune in Pokemon Crystal. Michel gets all sad "Ah jeez ah man c'mon dude jeez!" and you pick up a quest or a temp squaddy until he dies fighting this demon.

 

Or you go into the library in your keep and he's face down ass up in a book about Templar hunting demon stuff, you get the quest and can either take him to kill it or kill it yourself and LOL at him after.

 

I don't like Michel that much. He's probably the only character in the book with an ending I didn't like