Pretty sure demons don't actually "die" when killed in the "real" world, just go back to the fade....although with the breaches happening and everything meshing together
We don't know that in fact all we have to support this claim is 1 entry in journal.
The warden Allready tried to kill the formless one......it escaped on a refugee to Kirkwall
Hm? The warden killed him or at least vanished to the fade if that is true, that in kirkawll was another one.
We don't know that in fact all we have to support this claim is 1 entry in journal.
Hm? The warden killed him or at least vanished to the fade if that is true, that in kirkawll was another one.
They meant Flemeth. It's a popular (?) theory that she's actually the Formless One, who's the only Forbidden One left in addition to Imshael.
yeah, i was referencing the fan theory that flemeth is the "formless one" due to her being an abomination the likes of which no one has ever seen and able to shapeshift.
yeah, i was referencing the fan theory that flemeth is the "formless one" due to her being an abomination the likes of which no one has ever seen and able to shapeshift.
Well morrigan said she isn't abomnation in WH of course she could lie but it would be rather pointless lie.
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And how Fenris would know to tell the exact same lie is beyond me.Well morrigan said she isn't abomnation in WH of course she could lie but it would be rather pointless lie.
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Well morrigan said she isn't abomnation in WH of course she could lie but it would be rather pointless lie.
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She doesn't have to lie. She could simply be wrong.
That being said I don't actually support this theory, but anything Morrigan says regarding it shouldn't be taken as absolute fact.
She doesn't have to lie. She could simply be wrong.
That being said I don't actually support this theory, but anything Morrigan says regarding it shouldn't be taken as absolute fact.
Well see seems finally know what flemeth is and says that her claims that she was an abomination were wrong.
Of course it shouldn't doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken at all.
As i dislike flemeth because of her villian sue traits making her abomnation when sevral characters who were dealing with many abomnations mentioned that she isn't one would be rather cheap.
She doesn't have to lie. She could simply be wrong.
She could be, but statements from both Anders and Fenris back her up on this point.
Again, playing devil's advocate here because I don't actually subscribe to the theory, but none of these three are infallible individuals. Hell, the entire crux of Anders' story arch is based on the fact that he doesn't know anywhere near as much about spirits as he thinks he does.
Of course, this is also precluding the possibility that the Formless One is something other than an abomination, itself. The general implication I've gotten from the Forbidden Ones is they're something more than just powerful abominations. There's something special about them.
Hell, it's made explicit in The Masked Empire that there's something different about Imshael.
Imshael is definitely going to have a promising appearance in DA:I, hopefully more than just a simple antagonist.
Well, Flemeth is and isn't an Abomination. I think she's much more similar to Cole, Anders or Wynne. There's an implication with all 3 characters that there is a state beyond abomination when a spirit of any sort inhabits the body of a mage, a state where the spirit and the soul of the mage become one single entity. This is opposed to the Abomination state, in which the Spirit simply hijacks the body of a mage and (so far as it seems) either consumes or shunts the soul out of the body to use for their own purposes. Anders was an 'abomination' because we don't really have anything else that can describe his state, but at the same time Vengeance was still a unique entity from that of Anders. Wynn wasn't an abomination, but I think Cole....well, I'll discuss below.
Asunder Spoilers after the jump!
Well, Flemeth is and isn't an Abomination. I think she's much more similar to Cole, Anders or Wynne. There's an implication with all 3 characters that there is a state beyond abomination when a spirit of any sort inhabits the body of a mage, a state where the spirit and the soul of the mage become one single entity. This is opposed to the Abomination state, in which the Spirit simply hijacks the body of a mage and (so far as it seems) either consumes or shunts the soul out of the body to use for their own purposes. Anders was an 'abomination' because we don't really have anything else that can describe his state, but at the same time Vengeance was still a unique entity from that of Anders. Wynn wasn't an abomination, but I think Cole....well, I'll discuss below.
Asunder Spoilers after the jump!
Spoiler
Flemeth isn't (well as far few characters said she isn't possessed) abomnation when we go with da universe meaning of that word which mean possessed mage.In fact cole , wynne and anders were abomnations as every possessed mage is abomnation but they are rather unique cases.We know that cole was mage once and most likely was possessed by demon well at least everything point toward that now.
I don't think Imshael will be one of the major antagonists of DA: I. The Formless One and Fen'Harel make better candidates.
However Gaxkang and Xebenkeck didn't play much of a role in either of the previous games. Their missions didn't add much to the story. I hope it doesn't stay the same way with Imshael.
BTW, the four Forbidden Ones were responsible for teaching blood magic (or was it Dumat?) to people. Could they be linked to Red Lyrium in any manner? (since it seems to be the Templar version of blood magic plus it sings possibly implying the involvement of powerful beings similar to the Old Gods)
I thought one of the only truly frightening moments in the novel was when Michel met Imshael, and then later, when he accidentally freed him. I was kind of like... oh sh!t... then later when Gaspard and co. arrive at the remains of the Dalish camp, and you realize what Imshael did.... Jesus...
So, I hope if he (it?) does appear in the game, it is a significant encounter, and not a silly minor battle just to gather XP. I would rather him not appear if that's going to be the case.
People learned blood magic from the 4 forbidden ones, dumat, the other old gods, they also could only learn it from demons, and yet at the same time mages discovered how to use it on accident when they bleed by cutting themselves or something. I think they keep changing their minds, and haven't landed on one thing yet.I don't think Imshael will be one of the major antagonists of DA: I. The Formless One and Fen'Harel make better candidates.
However Gaxkang and Xebenkeck didn't play much of a role in either of the previous games. Their missions didn't add much to the story. I hope it doesn't stay the same way with Imshael.
BTW, the four Forbidden Ones were responsible for teaching blood magic (or was it Dumat?) to people. Could they be linked to Red Lyrium in any manner? (since it seems to be the Templar version of blood magic plus it sings possibly implying the involvement of powerful beings similar to the Old Gods)
People learned blood magic from the 4 forbidden ones, dumat, the other old gods, they also could only learn it from demons, and yet at the same time mages discovered how to use it on accident when they bleed by cutting themselves or something. I think they keep changing their minds, and haven't landed on one thing yet.
Actually since codexes are in-game references, and dialogue is obviously all limited by in-game knowledge, I think all the differences are simply the different beliefs of different cultures. Tevinter wants Dumat to be the teacher as he is an Old God, White Andrastrian nations prefer the 'Demons Did It' because they really don't like blood magic. Blood mages themselves don't want to seem like demon worshippers so the whole 'oops I cut myself.... look magic!' explanation is their go to.
Actually since codexes are in-game references, and dialogue is obviously all limited by in-game knowledge, I think all the differences are simply the different beliefs of different cultures. Tevinter wants Dumat to be the teacher as he is an Old God, White Andrastrian nations prefer the 'Demons Did It' because they really don't like blood magic. Blood mages themselves don't want to seem like demon worshippers so the whole 'oops I cut myself.... look magic!' explanation is their go to.
Yeah, I actually enjoy the ambiguity when it comes to gods, spirits and morality. Leaves us with a lot more grey area and makes some decisions much harder.
Yeah, I actually enjoy the ambiguity when it comes to gods, spirits and morality. Leaves us with a lot more grey area and makes some decisions much harder.
well if you mean blood magic devs did what they could to make it evil they even said that that was their intention so so much for grey area in that matter.
well if you mean blood magic devs did what they could to make it evil they even said that that was their intention so so much for grey area in that matter.
Given both Hawke and Warden and Merril are blood mages, and none of them go crazy and mass murder, I'd say the dev's haven't made Blood Magic evil through and through. They've made it more evil than standard magic, because of it's propensity for attracting murderers, but it is certainly still grey.
Given both Hawke and Warden and Merril are blood mages, and none of them go crazy and mass murder, I'd say the dev's haven't made Blood Magic evil through and through. They've made it more evil than standard magic, because of it's propensity for attracting murderers, but it is certainly still grey.
They (devs) said that themselves and pretty much both protagonists ignore totally not only consequences of being blood mage but even normal mage same for other specializations with consequences like templar or reaver.Merril pretty much destroyed many lifes even if not purposely including her own not mention that she was once saved by hawke from possession as she was tempted by power and second time by her master.In fact only malcolm hawke didn't suffer negative consequences of being blood mage.Well that sword made of pure evil that corrupts most of it users don't corrupt 2 or 3 doesn't mean it isn't evil.Devs inteded it to be evil as they said well i said that before they said that it was their intention.Well at first it could be grey area but now they added a lot to that to make it evil.
Well pretty much reminds me dark side now when most of it users are ax-crazy and/or super di*** with few redeemable cases/individuals
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Blood magic itself might be evil, but the Mage/Templar/Veil tears issues make its use less of a black and white situation. If I were a mage I could say "I'm never going to do blood magic" and in a time of peace that would be a very black and white decision, but if my children were being tortured and murdered in front of me I might feel inclined to use it as a last ditch effort to save them. Does that make me evil? Yes, in a way, but I could still be a good person pushed too far. I know it's wrong to use blood magic, but it might feel more wrong to sit and watch my children die. I'd like to think I'd never turn to evil even in a dire situation, but I couldn't say for sure because I can't even fathom what state of mind I'd be in at a moment like that. Whether or not to use blood magic is no longer a clear choice, it's gray.
This picture in particular comes to mind:
Edit: Though I mostly was talking about ambiguity in where it came from and other moral and religious issues throughout the game. I like it when we don't know for sure who is right and who is wrong.
Modifié par Ispan, 07 juin 2014 - 10:12 .
Blood magic itself might be evil, but the Mage/Templar/Veil tears issues make its use less of a black and white situation. If I were a mage I could say "I'm never going to do blood magic" and in a time of peace that would be a very black and white decision, but if my children were being tortured and murdered in front of me I might feel inclined to use it as a last ditch effort to save them. Does that make me evil? Yes, in a way, but I could still be a good person pushed too far. I know it's wrong to use blood magic, but it might feel more wrong to sit and watch my children die. I'd like to think I'd never turn to evil even in a dire situation, but I couldn't say for sure because I can't even fathom what state of mind I'd be in at a moment like that. Whether or not to use blood magic is no longer a clear choice, it's gray.
This picture in particular comes to mind:
Edit: Though I mostly was talking about ambiguity in where it came from and other moral and religious issues throughout the game. I like it when we don't know for sure who is right and who is wrong.
Well to clarify templars don't want kill or torture mages they want capture mages well at least in most cases.So excuse i use blood magic or die was in use very few times in series.So it is nothing more than mostly pro-mages propaganda.
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