98 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

After encountering the infamous Recommended Button of NWN1, I guess I knew to re-check settings for my own tastes. However, I do recall thinking the game was bugged because my Companions were not following any longer; was informed to check and see if the Hold key had been deactivated yet. Oops!

But I have little sympathy for someone that knowingly tosses an AoE spell on themselves, and complains about it for working correctly. One thing these forums have educated me these past several years; some value complaining as much or more than the games themselves, and my patience has waned over time.

[Ironman Gaming]

I find this issue with every game I play though...The first char I played on DA:O as a mage and restarted as well...Got to redcliffe I think and felt some of the spells weren't working as well as expected...

 

Isn't this also true in Elder Scrolls/Skyrim?  With the flexibility in that game, it sounds like you could gimp yourself endlessly.

 

On Casual mode, I'd assume anyone can just power through the game since you don't take much damage at all...practically play and fall asleep with the lack of damage one takes.

[Mike3207]

Does Paralytic Explosion break through spell resistance?  I know Winter's Grasp can still freeze (and stop) mobs for a few secs even if they resist the spell and don't take damage.  Maybe others, would have to look through the list.
 
Mages should've probably been given something to lower spell resistance, but they're so overpowered already that anything to make them stronger seems unnecessary...Also, a warrior who's a templar built to destroy mages, I believe should be able to make things extremely hard/near impossible for the mage since that's their whole goal in life...Just my thoughts.

Mages do have something like that-it's called shapeshifter. All the shapeshifter special abilities-Slam, Poison Spit, all the rest-they ignore spell resistance.

Paralysis Explosion hasn't been resisted that I've seen-I'm not sure any of the spell combos are.You will see the glyphs resisted though.

[congokong]

Maybe I'm just not very good at DA:O but I found casual to be fairly challenging. DA2 was on normal and yet I found that easier. Strange, isn't it?

 

What bothered me about the AOE spell knocking my mage on their ass, besides looking stupid, was how large the AOE was that at times it was unavoidable for me. Yes, expert gamers on here may never encounter such issues but I'm not one of them nor is anyone presumably on their first playthrough.

 

Overall I do like DA:O which is why I go on these boards, but for the story, not the gameplay.

 

And I won't argue the "different strokes for different folks" philosophy. I learned this lesson hard when I bought a PS3 for Metal Gear Solid 4 and found it, despite having outstanding ratings and praise, to be my biggest disappointment in gaming.

[Blazomancer]

^Not strange at all. Both are different games, the difficulty curve need to be necessarily same. If you found it comfortable enough in Normal, you could have done it in Hard as well. I believe DA2 is easy on every setting except Nightmare, even in Nightmare it is annoying rather than difficult with inexplicable immunities and large FF damage owing to high PC-enemy HP difference.

Regarding the AoE size, IIRC the upgraded spells in DA2 had larger AoEs than that in DAO. But since you were on the console, you didn't have the benefit of the iso-cam. So it's fair enough that you found it annoying, now that I think of it.

[DarthGizka]

The topic of PE and resistance came up in several times, so here's a short recap: all hostile spells that we can cast are subject to spell resistance, without exception. If the spell is not resisted then the target may still resist one or more of its effects, via physical/mental resistance or a level-based chance*. The particularity of Paralysis Explosion is that there is no effect resistance, only spell resistance.

However, the spellpower of high-magic Wardens tends to reduce enemy chance of physical or mental resistance to zero - even for bosses with their +20 or +30 rank bonus - except during very early levels. That renders the distinction between the 'irresistible' Paralysis Explosion and the regular phys-resistible paralysis spells moot, by and large.

In the video thread I calculated the physical resistance chance of the Ishal ogre against Ajira's spellpower as 13%. Piotin had 59 physical resistance; with +5 for being one level higher and +20 for being a minor boss, his total score was 84 against Ajira's 84 spellpower, for a resistance chance of 0%. Legit resistance is extremely rare.

If the "Resisted!" message appears for a magic Warden then it is almost always either due to spell resistance or to immunities. All immunities granted by TABLE_EFFECT_IMMUNITIES (in effects.xls) for creature types like Desire Demons, Arcane Horrors and so on were deliberately set to give the misleading "Resisted!" message instead of "Immune!". Including the knockdown immunity of ogres.

Piotin has 22.5% spell resistance, which looks harmless enough. However, it means that the chance of pulling off something like a double-hexed Nightmare combo is less than 30% - most of the time it just won't happen. Then there's the fact that bosses like Piotin can kill you with a single attack, two at most, not to mention that his thugs may lend a hand. This means that you have to juggle the whole bunch for a minute or longer without slipping even once, even though the probability of a double spell resist in such a fight is about 60% (99.4% single, 15% triple, 3.5% quadruple).

That's why I complained about spell resistance. Not only does it guarantee that your work will get sabotaged when you try fun stuff, it adds insult to injury by guaranteeing that the dice will stab you in the back. Physical fighters don't have to contend with such rubbish, and Dirty Fighting doesn't even have to overcome mental or physical resistance. And they all have instant-effect abilities like War Cry knockdown, Shield Bash, Pommel Strike, Overwhelm etc. pp. whereas a mage needs at least a second (for the so-called 'instant' spells like Mind Blast).

*) Winter's Grasp, freeze chance max(5%, 100% - target_level * 5%)

 

P.S.: 99% of the time it is just a nuisance but for about 1% it makes the difficulty spike to 'reload' level.

[Ironman Gaming]

Just played the Piotin fight a few times with my 1st char and some spells help insanely against him.

 

I should probably find a respec mod and test him against a lightning based spell char which should shutdown all his special attacks like my ogre video and make him pretty useless.

 

Without that, the easiest way I found to beat him all the time is just to keep him away and when he is about to Final Blow you, use forcefield...2 Internos will kill him and any of his croneys easily...To get to cast 2 infernos, I tend to use the Glyph of Repulsion which worked well enough with Paralyze stun.  The key is out of the 5+ knock down/freeze/stun spells you have, probably 1 will hit and once one does, I tend to move and cast either Inferno or go for the longer paralyze stun.  Then unload with more fireballs and everything else.  I try to sit in the Inferno too so after 1, all his friends are gone.

 

My magic score is only 59 (49 spellpower) and I had no uber tier 7 equipment and limited resist fire equip.

 

1st Char

 

I think "some" area of effect spell w/ forcefield is key since that will avoid 'kiting' to wait for your spells to recharge.

[DarthGizka]

Just played the Piotin fight a few times with my 1st char and some spells help insanely against him.

I should probably find a respec mod and test him against a lightning based spell char which should shutdown all his special attacks like my ogre video and make him pretty useless.

Yes, Piotin's special moves are the biggest dangers, especially Final Blow which can hit a squishy for something like two times HP regardless of armour. However, he and his 'right hand' are dangerous enough even without any stamina and can take down a squishy mage in one or two combat rounds.
 

The key is out of the 5+ knock down/freeze/stun spells you have, probably 1 will hit and once one does, I tend to move and cast either Inferno or go for the longer paralyze stun.

The key is that you rarely get to try more than two spells, regardless of how many CC spells you have in your arsenal.

The best way of getting some peace and quiet for casting spells is starting with Glyph of Repulsion and Sleep, using auxiliary CC on resisters. Cone of Cold can reduce the pressure on the glyph. Upgrade to Paralysis Explosion in preparation of the Inferno or when resistance becomes unmanageable.

Playing cheese in a trap does work well, I agree. Especially as you come out with all bread-and-butter spells cooled down and you can switch to (or equip) kit that regenerates mana or health while sitting in the Force Field. E.g. Cailan's Arms, High Regard etc.

30% amplification for fire damage can be attained as soon as travelling becomes possible, even on a non-cudgel budget. However, it's a two-edged sword - especially for a high-magic characters - since it makes one's own fire spells even more lethal for oneself. Especially the Inferno afterburn. A lesser balm doesn't cut it.

If the dice like you then you can go through the fight several times without fuss; if they hate you then you can easily reload several times in a row.

[Elhanan]

I have not used the Sleep line of spells in any game that I recall, and never needed to use Inferno in an arena match. However, my memory is faded, and can only believe at this point is that my AW used a lot of Dodge bonus equipment like when facing GoA. I do remember taking out the henchman first, and leaving Piotin until last.

[FlyingSquirrel]

So I've done a bunch of the sidequests, recruited Shale, and gotten everyone on board for the treaty except the dwarves. I'm finding the Harrowmont/Bhelen conflict a little confusing - the knowledge that each character has at any given time seems inconsistent, and none of the quest markers and updates seem to point towards the possibility of actually investigating this whole mess and figuring out who's telling the truth.

 

For example:

• When talking to a merchant in the Commons who supports Bhelen, one of my dialogue choices is: "I hear Bhelen killed his father." I don't recall being told of this rumor before this scene, and if I do pick that choice, the merchant responds that some say Harrowmont did it. Where did this come from, and what else does the Warden know that I (the player) don't necessarily know? (And how?)
• Can I investigate the king's death myself? If I can, I'm evidently not finding the right NPC to talk to or hidden object somewhere, because it hasn't popped up in several hours of wandering around trying different quest paths.
• I went to talk to the representatives for both candidates and then did a few of the tasks for Harrowmont to see what would happen. After that I went back to Bhelen's rep, and he basically told me to shove off because I'd worked for Harrowmont and indignantly asked, "You do know who I am, right?" Um, yeah, seeing as we had an entire conversation about this earlier.
• The closest I've gotten to actually investigating what's happening was getting Bhelen's rep to admit that he'd forged the promissory notes, as well as checking out the stories from Harrowmont's fighters, at least one of which seemed to be valid (I found the letters that were being used to blackmail him). Are there other paths forthcoming that will allow me to investigate further? And will any of them address the circumstances of the king's death?

Basically, I'm wondering if I can trust *either* of these guys to do something about the oppressive social castes and not behave like dictators if and when they get into power, but so far I've only talked to Harrowmont directly and had a fairly limited set of dialogue choices. Harrowmont doesn't seem to have a clear philosophy from what I've found so far. Bhelen at least professes to want change but also was looking into the possibility of one-man rule if I am to believe the Shaperate director...which I'm not sure I should since he's likely a closet Harrowmont supporter. Bhelen's people do seem to be more corrupt in how they're approaching the election, but I'm not sure if that's because they really are or because they're the only ones I've caught so far. I'm also skeptical of how sincere Bhelen's professed egalitarianism is - that one noble in the tavern who hates the caste system doesn't appear to trust him.

 

I don't mind some spoilers, as I did browse a couple walkthroughs trying to figure this out, and I gather that I'm probably locking myself out of certain options every time I do a job for one or the other of them - I'm willing to tolerate being spoiled if it means not having to replay this over and over again.

[DarthGizka]

That's about it, you seem to have uncovered all the bits. Short of playing the two dwarf origins and watching the epilogue slides for either candidate as king there seems to be no way of acquiring more information. I tend to ignore the epilogue slides for the most part, though. Some of the rabbits that get pulled out of hats during the epilogue are new lows even for Gaider, and that's saying a lot.

 

P.S.: Bhelen is 'egalitarian' only in the sense that he doesn't give a flying meow about anything, except to the extent that it can be useful to him in some way.

[Elhanan]

For myself, it is a matter of balancing all the lies and deception being used to determine which leader to support, and also the character of the Warden. Plus, when playing a Dwarven Noble, one can play most of this supporting Bhelen, then give the crown to Harrowmont; well worth the the experience, IMO.

P.S. There are several minor NPC's that offer their opinions: Lass near the entrance, others in the tavern, etc. However, it is the facts and lies that can be confirmed that I prefer to use; not the gossip.

[AlanC9]

I believe the design intent is that most Wardens won't really know who the best choice is, but it's easy enough for them to figure out that neither one is close to optimal.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, my Warden does care about social equality and is horrified at the way the casteless dwarves are treated, but she also suspects that Bhelen may just be an opportunist who would later betray the casteless and the commoners if it benefited him to do so. Right now I'm working from the assumption that she's planning to support Harrowmont and try to influence him to change things once he's in office. (I realize the game may not let me do that, I'm talking about her IC perspective based on what she knows as things unfold.) The fact that even that one noble who hates the caste system doesn't trust Bhelen was a red flag for her, as were the blackmailing and lying by his supporters.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, I think I'm actually going to make it to the end this time - I've completed all the treaty quests and companion sidequests (Zevran doesn't seem to have one from what I can tell), and I've done probably a majority of the other sidequests. A couple of them are a bit on the oblique side as to how to complete them - for example, there's one called "Unbound" that I guess revolves around finding hidden notes in various locations, and apparently I just never found all of them. And I gather that the sick halla can't be cured unless my survival rating is much higher. Anyway, I did trigger the Landsmeet and have now been told to go around and see who else might support Eamon.

 

I will say one thing even though I found the game more interesting this time around - some of the combat sequences just drag on way too long. I'm thinking especially of all the times I get attacked by random werewolves and monsters when navigating through the Brecilian forest or looking for Witherfang and of all the darkspawn I have to fight in the Deep Roads. Maybe it's because I've been playing on casual to try to speed things up, but it feels like I'm fighting the same few battles over and over again, and that's probably the most likely factor to deter me from additional playthroughs in the future.

[DarthGizka]

Well, if you can face-roll most combat encounters then they must become very same-y, because you aren't forced to evaluate the different tactical situations, enemy abilities and so on. The same thing can happen on a first playthrough when you don't have any idea WTF is going on, because the whole game system is basically undocumented... Happened to me with my very first character in places like the Circle Tower and during the Ashes quest, even though there is very little duplication and they are both fairly short.

 

There's a lot to be said for a Tourist or Story mode where the number of encounters and enemies is scaled back. There are more than 500 kills in the Deep Roads but my current solo mage didn't experience any sameishness at all, for the reasons mentioned above. However, if someone isn't interested in combat as such then all the fighting must get extremely long in the tooth...

[FlyingSquirrel]

BTW, I got the game through a Steam deal that came with all the DLCs installed, and I *think* I've finished all the DLC missions that get incorporated into the main game with the exception of "Feastday Pranks." I couldn't figure out what exactly I was supposed to do with that one - at one point I gave Alistair a lump of coal and he thanked me while still dropping his approval by 5 points, but I'd expected a new dialogue scene or something more unique.

 

Anyway, as for the separate DLCs, I gather that Awakening imports your last save from DAO, and that DA2 in turn imports from Awakening. Are there other DLCs that are particularly important and/or that import into DA2? I'll probably give most of them a look either way, just wondering if there's a particular order I should follow.

[DarthGizka]

In the canonical order, Amgarrak imports from DA:O or Awakening, and Witch Hunt imports from Amgarrak. There is no victory/epilogue save in Amgarrak, though, and it probably doesn't have much effect in a subsequent import.

 

The import mechanism can be a bit weird sometimes, though. For example, when I tried Amgarrak for the first time it offered a save from Witch Hunt for import (which would have been a nice thing for newly created characters, to get a bit more XP and loot) but that didn't really work.

 

Amgarrak, Witch Hunt, Leliana's Song and the Darkspawn Chronicles all have some bonus items - I call them travel stickers - that are automatically added to all subsequently created characters (and probably to all existing ones as well). Some of the travel stickers must be earned, some are more or less automatic.

 

The Feastday Pranks contain specific items for each companion, and they usually carry a price tag of -50 approval. Some are really hilarious, though. So make a save, get inventive and enjoy the fun. The onions and lumps of coal are generic standard fare for practicing Machiavellians, just like the cakes and 'thoughtful gifts'.

[Elhanan]

I do not recall any story hooks that carry over from the DLC to DA2, but my memory may not be accurate. Pls get confirmation.

[dragonflight288]

When it comes to dwarves, it's all about tradition and castes. You won't be able to know who's telling the truth. Harrowmont is a very nice guy, but he's a staunch traditionalist. Think about dwarven tradition and what that means for the caste system and trade. Bhelen's quests are dirty and underhanded, but he sees a future where dwarves can take back their lands, and is willing to make the necessary sacrifices, be it outdated traditions to annoying brothers who happen to be in the way of him taking the throne, or an assembly who actually chooses the king and not through direct bloodlines. 

 

One seems nice and honorable and the other a dirtbag, and you never learn who's telling the truth about Enderin, but if you play either of the dwarven origins, you will become quite biased one way or the other. 

[Kidd]

Anyway, as for the separate DLCs, I gather that Awakening imports your last save from DAO, and that DA2 in turn imports from Awakening. Are there other DLCs that are particularly important and/or that import into DA2? I'll probably give most of them a look either way, just wondering if there's a particular order I should follow.

Origins -> Awakening -> Golems of Amgarrak -> Witch Hunt -> Dragon Age 2 (which does not have post-game DLC) -> Inquisition

That's the order to play the content in. You can skip any of the steps, but I don't believe you can ever move backwards. Personally I do every part aside from GoA (sometimes skipping out on WH, but that's because I've played it before and I know which characters will get interesting choices and which characters pretty much won't - it's well worth it the first time regardless of who your character is =) ). GoA doesn't offer much in the vein of interesting plot or characters in my opinion, and it's hard as balls to the point of frustration.

Still, I guess I'd recommend you to make your own opinion of GoA. So try it out =) If you end up dying tons and get fed up, ignore the rest and just import into Witch Hunt.

[Elhanan]

The Stone prisoner, Warden's Keep, and Return to Ostegar may hold some information in the future; all recommended. Leliana's Song, Witch Hunt, GoA, Darkspawn Chronicles, are all worth a single session for the items, humor, and enjoyment alone.

[FlyingSquirrel]

There's a lot to be said for a Tourist or Story mode where the number of encounters and enemies is scaled back. There are more than 500 kills in the Deep Roads but my current solo mage didn't experience any sameishness at all, for the reasons mentioned above. However, if someone isn't interested in combat as such then all the fighting must get extremely long in the tooth...

 

It's more just that I feel like a little of it goes a long way. The ideal mix for me would probably be something along the lines of Feros in ME1 where there are a series of short battles in between searching, talking to people, and gathering information. The Deep Roads kind of felt like if I had to spend an hour shooting at geth just to get from the main colony to the ExoGeni building. But, if I do end up doing another playthrough, I'll probably set the difficulty higher to see if it makes it a little more interesting.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, Selena Amell officially ended the Blight yesterday, and I'm glad I stuck with it. I'm not sure if I'd yet rank it among my favorite games ever, and future playthroughs may depend on if I have the time (I do think the game's a little too long for a non-open-world game - I clocked in around 80 hours). But I will say that I queued up Awakening almost right away, and I'm sure I'll at least finish the DLCs and give DA2 a try. I did really get into the story and characters after a while, even though medieval-ish fantasy isn't my favorite setting.

 

I was especially impressed by the ending - I liked the way they set up the last conversations with each party member, the battle of Denerim itself was suitably epic, and the epilogue was something I don't think I've really seen in the RPGs I've played recently. Maybe kinda sorta with ME2, but that was just a line or two per squadmate about defeating the Collectors, whereas the epilogue dialogue scenes in DA:O addressed the larger picture of everything they'd all been through with the Warden. IIRC, Sten was going home, Shale and Wynne were both going to travel for a while, and Leliana, Oghren, and Zevran were sticking around. Morrigan had left in anger when Selena said no to her ritual, Alistair was dead (more on that in a bit), and my dog didn't have a dialogue scene or a mention in the slideshow (which did disappoint me a little - I stopped to pet him on almost every camp visit, and he even helped Leliana bust Selena out of Howe's prison).

 

I was trying to roleplay Selena as a "small-picture altruist," who was distrustful of most of Ferelden's political establishment and tended to approach situations from a general perspective of "how can I get everyone out alive and help out the underdogs" as opposed to being invested in a particular faction, and I did feel a bit tripped up in a couple places. One was the Harrowment/Bhelen conflict that I mentioned earlier, though I realize that was deliberately set up as a problem without any particularly good solutions.

 

However, I also ended up with Alistair killing Loghain even though Selena wanted to let Loghain have a chance to redeem himself and just generally wouldn't support executions. I wrote off the whole possibility of an Alistair/Anora marriage early on, figuring Selena would see it as the kind of political manipulation of people's personal lives that she detested, and even a little creepy given that Anora had been married to Alistair's half-brother. I looked carefully for the equivalent of a "Paragon interrupt" in the dialogue choices, but even after having her say she wouldn't kill him, she seems to nod in acquiescence to Alistair when he does it. (I guess I'll just have to assume she was in shock and was flinching because a bug bit her or something.  ) Alistair's insistence on revenge also caught me off-guard, since I'd never seen that sort of behavior from him before.

 

I figured that picking Harrowmont and Alistair for their relative positions made sense given Selena's skepticism of Fereldan politicians - the reluctance of each to become the new monarchs actually made them more qualified in her eyes. But regarding the marriage possibility, I wonder if I was letting my modern perspective seep into the roleplaying a little too much(i.e. simply rejecting arranged marriages regardless and particularly those to someone's half-brother-in-law) whereas perhaps in the context of Ferelden even a relatively progressive person would be more open to the idea. OTOH, I did try out those dialogue trees at one point and Anora, at least, did seem slightly creeped out by it even if she didn't reject it out of hand.

 

In any case, while I had initially thought I'd probably have Selena strike the killing blow against the Archdemon, I ended up letting Alistair do it. Not because I, or Selena, actually *wanted* him dead, but she felt a little less certain that he needed to survive for the purpose of serving as king, and he actually seemed to want to do it. I think the dialogue choice I picked was "If this is really what you want, I won't stop you." (Plus, from a metagaming perspective, I'd come to like Selena enough to want to be able to import her for DLC and any possible cameos in future DA games.) She wasn't thrilled that Anora had taken over, and was considering staying in Denerim partly to keep an eye on her.

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the tips along the way. I may keep posting in this thread if anyone's interested in further perspectives from a relative newbie to the DA universe.