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Loghain in Inquisition


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#126
Mykel54

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On the topic of Howe, i always thought that Loghain allowed him to gain so much power because he later planned to marry Anora to one of Howe´s sons, effectively making all those lands belong to the crown again, so no threat to Ferelden´s kings. This isn´t anywhere ingame, aside the little remark of Howe when he died ("I deserved more"), so maybe he was trying to get his family linked to the throne through Loghain. Howe was a power hungry bastard after all.

 

About Ostagar, it isn´t very clear who really made the battle plan. The game suggests that Loghain came up with it, because he is the general, but then you have Cailan making his demands that are unnegotiable, and Loghain bitching about it (ex. Cailan must fight alongside the wardens, in the front lines too.). So who´s to say how the plan would have looked had the king sat in Denerim instead? I think the plan used was a compromise between Cailan´s "glorious charge" and Loghain´s "sneaky tactical ambush", neither Loghain nor Cailan appeared too happy about it, probably because both had to make concessions from their ideal plan.



#127
Gtdef

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Why? It had been 400 years since the last Blight, a time during which humanity thought the Blights had ended. On top of that Grey Wardens had been kicked out Ferelden for a long time (200 years? Maybe just 100) so for all that time there was no-one saying 'Don't forget about the Darkspawn'. From a meta perspective obviously the Blight is the big threat, but to Loghain's mind, and anyone else who isn't a Grey Warden, the Blights are just stories. Cailan himself doubts it was a true Blight. If the King who really believes in the Wardens doesn't think its a Blight, why should Loghain, or anyone else for that matter? Just because the Grey Wardens said so? Well consider, the Grey Wardens authority in Ferelden was near nonexistent, how better to regain some of their lost prestige and political clout than to call a larger than average darkspawn incursion a Blight.

You have to look at it from the point of view of someone in the world, not one of us looking in from the outside.

 

Hardly a matter of who believes what though . What Loghain did was killing the king because he would leave his daughter for Celene, and pinned the murder on the grey wardens, while actively hunting and imprisoning any remnants or help the wardens outside Ferelden sent. He did all of that without even thinking for a moment that if he was wrong about the blight, he was dooming Ferelden.

 

He was wrong and he was lucky that the protagonist survives, otherwise he would see his country falling to the darkspawn and no one would be in a position to help him because he was the one that drove away anyone that could offer help. He is a nasty man and for all his talk about Orlais being the enemy and whatnot, he only cares about himself.


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#128
The Night Haunter

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Hardly a matter of who believes what though . What Loghain did was killing the king because he would leave his daughter for Celene, and pinned the murder on the grey wardens, while actively hunting and imprisoning any remnants or help the wardens outside Ferelden sent. He did all of that without even thinking for a moment that if he was wrong about the blight, he was dooming Ferelden.

 

He was wrong and he was lucky that the protagonist survives, otherwise he would see his country falling to the darkspawn and no one would be in a position to help him because he was the one that drove away anyone that could offer help. He is a nasty man and for all his talk about Orlais being the enemy and whatnot, he only cares about himself.

Actually perception is more important than reality in determining who does what. Loghain didn't believe it was a true Blight, and Cailan didn't really either (he just hoped it was, fool that he is).

 

Loghain was indeed wrong, and Ferelden is lucky that the Warden survived (although does Flemeth count as luck, lol  :whistle: ). I disagree about him caring only about himself, if you let him live and talk to him you see that he was doing everything that he believed was best for Ferelden. But you are entitled to believe what you want.


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#129
EmperorSahlertz

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And they came back dead. When all of your scouts are dead, the sound tactical move is not to assume you have numerical superiority and craft a strategy that is just suicidal if you happen to be outnumbered. 

You understand then that Loghain did NOT want to force the encounter at Ostagar, but that was entirely the work of Cailan? Loghain knew that if the King demanded the battle to happen, then he had to make it so. that is wy Ostagar happened in the first place.


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#130
Shark17676

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See?  Even Loghain supporters admit that had the man gotten his way, the entire world would've been doomed to suffer through another long Blight, if not be outright destroyed by it.

 

Loghain thinking he was right and having all the "best of intentions" is irrelevant; he was nothing but an incompetent buffoon at best.


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#131
DragonRacer

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See?  Even Loghain supporters admit that had the man gotten his way, the entire world would've been doomed to suffer through another long Blight, if not be outright destroyed by it.

 

Loghain thinking he was right and having all the "best of intentions" is irrelevant; he was nothing but an incompetent buffoon at best.

 

Actually, no, it isn't irrelevant because it adds a dimension to a character.

 

A character doesn't have to be right to qualify for people liking/enjoying them as a character. That's sort of a very weird argument to have, honestly. "This character was wrong about something, therefore, nobody should like him" is how your post sounds.


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#132
Red Panda

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See?  Even Loghain supporters admit that had the man gotten his way, the entire world would've been doomed to suffer through another long Blight, if not be outright destroyed by it.

 

Loghain thinking he was right and having all the "best of intentions" is irrelevant; he was nothing but an incompetent buffoon at best.

There's still the issue of Riordan.

 

It's still entirely possible that Riordan could have slain the Archdemon for Loghain once he realized his error.



#133
The Night Haunter

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See?  Even Loghain supporters admit that had the man gotten his way, the entire world would've been doomed to suffer through another long Blight, if not be outright destroyed by it.

 

Loghain thinking he was right and having all the "best of intentions" is irrelevant; he was nothing but an incompetent buffoon at best.

I take it then you think Pencilin should never be used, since its discovery was a mistake?



#134
RedWulfi

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My loghain is dead so... yeah..



#135
Red Panda

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I take it then you think Pencilin should never be used, since its discovery was a mistake?

To be fair, that's argumentum ad hominem territory you're heading into desppite the point you have.



#136
Kel Riever

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To be fair, that's argumentum ad hominem territory you're heading into desppite the point you have.

 

I like ad hominems!



#137
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*

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Since this is a Loghain thread thought I'd get this out of the way...

 

For the honor of Ferelden!! 

 

Dude had some really badass combat banter.



#138
darkmanifest

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On the topic of Howe, i always thought that Loghain allowed him to gain so much power because he later planned to marry Anora to one of Howe´s sons, effectively making all those lands belong to the crown again, so no threat to Ferelden´s kings. This isn´t anywhere ingame, aside the little remark of Howe when he died ("I deserved more"), so maybe he was trying to get his family linked to the throne through Loghain. Howe was a power hungry bastard after all.

 

Hmm, I really like this.  It sounds like the kind of plan that Loghain would have considered worthwhile enough to make an alliance with a snake like Howe and turn a blind eye to his more questionable practices.  Combined with Redcliffe's only heir being a mage (therefore making his inheritance forfeit), Howe's destruction of the Couslands, and the bounty on the Wardens (and therefore Alistair) eventually being successful, there would have been nothing standing in the way of the Howes and Mac Tirs becoming the new royalty of Ferelden.  Nathaniel and Anora would have been good rulers together.  It wasn't a bad plan, in terms of Ferelden's well-being, and a very neat coup.

 

Well, aside from Howe being so vicious that he was set on doing who knows what to Anora (he suggested killing her right to Loghain's face, after all).  Dude was very smart, but he was also completely off his rocker, not a good thing for Ferelden's third most powerful person.



#139
duckley

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Didnt Howe have another son who was more like him and less like Nathaniel?

#140
Hanako Ikezawa

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Didnt Howe have another son who was more like him and less like Nathaniel?

Thomas. 



#141
Kingthlayer

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Executing Loghain will have negative political consequences?  My canon Warden's ending says otherwise.

 

We haven't seen Ferelden for 10 years, how can you say there are no consequences for killing Loghain?

 

Keep in mind, headcannon and fanfiction are irrelevant.