424 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

But thats not going to happen. Despiste all the talk of my Hawke or my Inquisitor They are no less defined in their place in the story than a character like Geralt. If you think about it , the things you can change like name and ethnicity have zero impact on anything. It's just not realistic to expect to have control over the character to that level in a voice acted game.

Then the games shouldn't be voice acted.

[robertthebard]

Then the games shouldn't be voice acted.

The logic in the post you're replying to is flawed, however. Because my CE Warden would have let Denerim burn, and then moved on the Archdemon, an option that was not available. In fact, no matter how the game is presented, voiced or not, this limitation has always been in place. My Female DE would have gutted Alistair on the spot for rejecting her bid to be queen, even though she was good enough to "share a tent" all the way until he actually became "important". My Chaotic Evil Bhaalspawn would have sided with Sarevok outside of Candlekeep, if the option had been available. Side with the obviously more powerful person that shared my basic world views, until I was powerful enough to take him out. Voice acting doesn't create these limitations, they have existed since the genre has existed.

[AkiKishi]

Voice acting adds further limitations, especially with regard to how a character is perceived. It depends if you believe the trade off is worth it or not. I don't think there is a right answer. 

[Pasquale1234]

Anyone who walks like lady Hawke is doing it consciously to be sexy/sassy. It's a runway walk and not natural or efficient. I work in a grocery store, and this thread has made me take notice of people's walks for the last few days. Out of the large number of people I've been casually observing, 2 women and 1 man (which surprised me) walked like lady Hawke (but even then to a lesser degree). None of the three were in plate armor, trekking through the woods, running at an enemy in combat, etc...as much as I like her walk for certain things (being fancy with some nobles, etc...)I would rather have a neutral walk that looks natural. Though if I had to choose between lady Hawke and Femshep I'd pick the model sashay.

 

This is the primary reason why I take such issue with it - it is not a natural gait for anyone, but a conscious effort to garner sexual attention.  That Lady Hawke walked that way throughout the entire game made her look pretty desperate and pathetic, and I found it embarrassing to try to role-play that.  Apparently, you can only play a badass female if she is also somehow made a sexual object.

 

As I understand it, PC players were able to substitute the male animations.  If I could choose to use male walk / run animations on the console, I would do so, and not care about the default female animations.  It would probably be much cheaper and easier (?) to create a single neutral animation.
 

[Finnn62]

Voice acting adds further limitations, especially with regard to how a character is perceived. It depends if you believe the trade off is worth it or not. I don't think there is a right answer. 

 

I've been fairly satisfied with the relative neutrality of the voice acting for the player character in both the Dragon Age & Mass Effect series so far, honestly. I mean, there needs to be some emotion in a character's voice acting so they don't sound like a robot and some liberties taken in characterization, but, personally, I'm fine with the trade off. It seems more natural to me than having other characters all sound like they're talking to themselves, lol.

[KainD]

I mean, there needs to be some emotion in a character's voice acting so they don't sound like a robot.

Hard to please everyone with this as well. I enjoy playing more easygoing characters, ones that don't get emotional about anything, for example.

[Finnn62]

Hard to please everyone with this as well. I enjoy playing more easygoing characters, ones that don't get emotional about anything, for example.

 

True enough, if you are trying to play a character somewhat more like Sten or the Arishok, this might be troublesome. Good point. I feel like they might address this with the improvements to the dialogue wheel. From the confirmed info-"what we know" thread:

 

The Reaction Wheel is for reacting emotionally to a situation. Instead of choosing your tone, you choose an emotional reaction (such as "Sad", "Enraged", "Confused", etc.). The "Stoic" option is always available for a reaction-neutral response.

 

So that's something to hope for, right?

[Lady Nuggins]

This is the primary reason why I take such issue with it - it is not a natural gait for anyone, but a conscious effort to garner sexual attention.  That Lady Hawke walked that way throughout the entire game made her look pretty desperate and pathetic, and I found it embarrassing to try to role-play that.  Apparently, you can only play a badass female if she is also somehow made a sexual object.

 

As I understand it, PC players were able to substitute the male animations.  If I could choose to use male walk / run animations on the console, I would do so, and not care about the default female animations.  It would probably be much cheaper and easier (?) to create a single neutral animation.
 

 

It probably would be, but it doesn't look great either.  Two somewhat neutral animations, seem much better to me than making the female protagonist flail her elbows around because she's trying to run like someone with a much broader frame.

 

[Pasquale1234]

It probably would be, but it doesn't look great either.  Two somewhat neutral animations, seem much better to me than making the female protagonist flail her elbows around because she's trying to run like someone with a much broader frame.

 

 

I see your point - but I also think a lot of that could be fixed with a different body model and outfit.

 

Imagine a body model more like, say Jillian Michaels - which, frankly, I would   - wearing something not painted on, and I think the animation would look much less awkward.

 

Even so, I think I would still prefer that to Lady Hawke's strut.  YMMV.

 

 

[robertthebard]

Voice acting adds further limitations, especially with regard to how a character is perceived. It depends if you believe the trade off is worth it or not. I don't think there is a right answer.

I can get behind that statement. For me, going back to Origins now feels kind of dry in the dialog department, because it feels like they are talking at me, instead of to me. Yeah, I know it's perception, but after ME et al, and DA 2, it's hard to come back to sometimes.

[robertthebard]

It probably would be, but it doesn't look great either.  Two somewhat neutral animations, seem much better to me than making the female protagonist flail her elbows around because she's trying to run like someone with a much broader frame.
 

The problem I have with this video in particular is that, if she's wearing armor, or any other clothes for that matter, it's not as bad as this makes it look. The only "fix" would be animations for formal wear, such as that dress, animations for casual wear, such as the "jeans and hoodie" look, and animations for armor. By the time they get done doing all those animations, nobody would be able to afford to buy the game, but they'd look nice.

[Black Jimmy]

Hawke walked very feminine. It looked weird.

 

A choice in base animations in Character Creation would be nice. Like Saints Row.

 

That way, if i want to make my Femquisitor walk like a Soldier, then I can. And those who don't, don't have too.

[Lady Nuggins]

The problem I have with this video in particular is that, if she's wearing armor, or any other clothes for that matter, it's not as bad as this makes it look. The only "fix" would be animations for formal wear, such as that dress, animations for casual wear, such as the "jeans and hoodie" look, and animations for armor. By the time they get done doing all those animations, nobody would be able to afford to buy the game, but they'd look nice.

 

The dress highlights how bad it is, but it's still bad when she's in a uniform or armor.  The problem is that the animation doesn't match her body.  She's holding her elbows up like a chicken because her run was made for Broshep, who has a broader chest and bulky, muscular arms.  On him, it looks like he's running with his arms close to his body like a real soldier would.  On her, it looks like she has no idea how to run like a person.

[robertthebard]

The dress highlights how bad it is, but it's still bad when she's in a uniform or armor.  The problem is that the animation doesn't match her body.  She's holding her elbows up like a chicken because her run was made for Broshep, who has a broader chest and bulky, muscular arms.  On him, it looks like he's running with his arms close to his body like a real soldier would.  On her, it looks like she has no idea how to run like a person.

12Bravo, Combat Engineer, trained at Fort Lost in the Woods, MO, and soldiers do not run with their arms tight against their bodies. Neither male nor female, because, most of the time, if you're carrying your weapon, it will force your arms away from your body. The animation looks decidedly bad in the dress, but in civvies or armor, it's not as bad as that video.

[Ryzaki]

The logic in the post you're replying to is flawed, however. Because my CE Warden would have let Denerim burn, and then moved on the Archdemon, an option that was not available. In fact, no matter how the game is presented, voiced or not, this limitation has always been in place. My Female DE would have gutted Alistair on the spot for rejecting her bid to be queen, even though she was good enough to "share a tent" all the way until he actually became "important". My Chaotic Evil Bhaalspawn would have sided with Sarevok outside of Candlekeep, if the option had been available. Side with the obviously more powerful person that shared my basic world views, until I was powerful enough to take him out. Voice acting doesn't create these limitations, they have existed since the genre has existed.

 

eh Saverok would've just killed the PC straight out. That was one of his main goals from the beginning of the game.

 

Though you should be able to get a fail end from him pretending to agree with you and the next thing you know your PC is dead.

 

 

Hard to please everyone with this as well. I enjoy playing more easygoing characters, ones that don't get emotional about anything, for example.

 

Yep I tend to play my male characters (and alot of my females) as the stoic. overly emotive VA breaks that right in two.

[The Antagonist]

You can choose animations in Saints Row?

[AkiKishi]

You can choose animations in Saints Row?

 

It's not an uncommon feature but it can cause problems in certain games.

[naddaya]

You can choose animations in Saints Row?

 

You can choose compliments/taunts and how your character walks, but cutscenes are the same for all characters.

[Stelae]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at upthread. I can't imagine a better way to make a girl into a fan of skirts than to tell her that she shouldn't wear them because the current conventions are sexist. She might internalize the rule, but if she doesn't...

Exactly; the best way to get me to try something as a kid was to imply I couldn't, or shouldn't. 

 

"Brussels sprouts?  No, you won't like them; they're more of a grown up food ... "

 

(mind you, it didn't work for fish, seafood or organised team sports.  Because I actually don't like them.  But I'll give anything a go, particularly if someone implies I shouldn't, even unto this day.)

[SilkieBantam]

This is the primary reason why I take such issue with it - it is not a natural gait for anyone, but a conscious effort to garner sexual attention.  That Lady Hawke walked that way throughout the entire game made her look pretty desperate and pathetic, and I found it embarrassing to try to role-play that.  Apparently, you can only play a badass female if she is also somehow made a sexual object.

 

As I understand it, PC players were able to substitute the male animations.  If I could choose to use male walk / run animations on the console, I would do so, and not care about the default female animations.  It would probably be much cheaper and easier (?) to create a single neutral animation.
 

I guess something that bothers me about what you wrote makes it sound like you're against women walking like that at all? 

Look, I'm a woman, and to be honest I do walk in a similar manner to Hawke. Not as extreme mind you but I do usually sway my hips.

 

I like to walk like that and I don't think we should shame women for wanting to be sexy. Saying a woman is "pathetic and desperate" for the way she walks bothers me and I'd appreciate it if we could all be a bit more civil about these things. 

 

That aside I'm all for a gender neutral walk if that's what will please people. Of course my dream, as I've probably posted earlier, is for the ability to pick our walk animations. 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

The problem I have with this video in particular is that, if she's wearing armor, or any other clothes for that matter, it's not as bad as this makes it look. The only "fix" would be animations for formal wear, such as that dress, animations for casual wear, such as the "jeans and hoodie" look, and animations for armor. By the time they get done doing all those animations, nobody would be able to afford to buy the game, but they'd look nice.

They could just cut out multiplayer animations. Ba-dum-tsh. (I liked multiplayer, but it's not hard for them to do more animations if they wanted to)

[Mes]

I guess something that bothers me about what you wrote makes it sound like you're against women walking like that at all? 

Look, I'm a woman, and to be honest I do walk in a similar manner to Hawke. Not as extreme mind you but I do usually sway my hips.

 

I like to walk like that and I don't think we should shame women for wanting to be sexy. Saying a woman is "pathetic and desperate" for the way she walks bothers me and I'd appreciate it if we could all be a bit more civil about these things. 

 

 

We're talking about a warrior type person in a video game, though. It doesn't fit with the character, it's way too extreme. A nice neutral walk would be best. 

[SilkieBantam]

We're talking about a warrior type person in a video game, though. It doesn't fit with the character, it's way too extreme. A nice neutral walk would be best. 

I agree a neutral walk would be probably be best but I was referring to the usage of the words "pathetic and desperate" to describe a way of walking.

It felt a tad ****-shameish to me is all. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

The logic in the post you're replying to is flawed, however. Because my CE Warden would have let Denerim burn, and then moved on the Archdemon, an option that was not available. In fact, no matter how the game is presented, voiced or not, this limitation has always been in place. My Female DE would have gutted Alistair on the spot for rejecting her bid to be queen, even though she was good enough to "share a tent" all the way until he actually became "important". My Chaotic Evil Bhaalspawn would have sided with Sarevok outside of Candlekeep, if the option had been available. Side with the obviously more powerful person that shared my basic world views, until I was powerful enough to take him out. Voice acting doesn't create these limitations, they have existed since the genre has existed.

Yes, those limitations have always existed, but the voice makes them much more severe. The range available to us is now much narrower. In DAO, you could have two different Wardens deliver the same line in different ways. Not always vastly different, but a subtle difference is still a difference. In DA2, because of the voice, yiu were now forced to deliver the line exactly the same way every time. This dramatically reduces the number of possible Hawkes you can play. You now have less freedom to define your character.

What you're talking about is absolute freedom, which no one is requesting. You're defeating the wrong argument.

You're presenting extreme examples that haven't typically been supported. Those of us who object to the implementation of the voice so far are concerned with how we can no longer play characters that we absolutely could play in previous games.

[Oasis_JS]

cookies! for everyone! XD

at the end..will see what they did. it's already done.. the whole walking..and running...   So will see what happen in future projects. and here's looking to see what they did for this one