The sad thing? If you go solely by the conversation at the Joining, it's true.
The sad thing is that the way she says it indicates that women aren't supposed to be brave, that it's surprising for her, a woman, to be the bravest. Ugh. I don't recall any other lines like this though.
I really really hated what they did to Femsheps walk in ME3. I was used to this bad ass lady who walked like she gave zero <censored> what people thought of her, and they all of a sudden she moved like someone had made a crack about how she walked and had spent those 6 months in lock up trying to be more graceful. Blech.
As for DA2, I never once felt like LadyHawke's walk was out of place for her. It never felt like it was over exaggerated. Where for me FemShep and Dudeshep are interchangeable beings(Genderswapped versions of the same exact character), LadyHawke and MHawke were different people.
Per example: My femshep and my broshep made the same choices, felt the same feelings -- and while femshep romanced Garrus and broshep romanced Tali, had I been given the option to romance either with both genders, my broshep would have been all over Garrus and my Femshep would have bought Tali a house on Rannoch. They were the same person in different bodies.
In Da2, my MHawke romanced Isabela and begrudgingly sided with the Templars in hopes of protecting Bethany and the City. My LadyHawke romanced Fenris and went full tilt with the Mages. They were different people with different personalities, feelings, and hopes.
Aka: Shep is shep reguardless of gender, and Hawke was a surviving Twin.
And I'm rambling.
My point is so long as neither gender walks the way they did in DAO (Aka I walk like I've got to take a wicked poo), it doesn't really matter to me if gentquiz moves differently then ladyquiz. I'd be perfectly okay with neutral movements for both, and I'd be perfectly okay if they moved differently. Just please please PLEASE don't make our Ladyquiz move like she's an actual "Lady". I'm here to kick rear end and chew bubblegum, and I'm out of bubblegum. I'm not real interested in sitting down for a cup of tea while the world burns 
What is "acting like a lady" ?
Which also begs the question: what is "acting like a man" ?
Femshep and the skirt is an unfortunate consequence of an animation made without (and in fact, before) that particular outfit in mind, otherwise, there's nothing really wrong with it.
You could make a point that animations were ported from Maleshep to Femshep and thus the intent is male-orientated, but if they should go out of their way to create "female-specific animations", then on what basis should those be made ?
Indeed - and in RL there is NOTHING that suggests that women think much differently than men do (on a basic level - most stuff we do differently is IMO just socialisation and education and of course: rolemodels (few girls - except those growing up with a single-parent father - take a man as a rolemodel IMO, thus they try to imitade (without knowingly doing it) the female rolemodel which is more often than not, the mother))
So why should a woman act differently (isn't that just what we expect...but do those expections not come from our upbringing and socialisation?)?
I for one love that they act more or less the same (because I love women who don't fit the female-mould, I find them refreshing amongst all those girly-girls (and I am not necessarily talking about tomboys which I do like, too)), really, why should they not?
greetings LAX
ps: For me the only difference between men and women is: the plumbing (and ability to bear children, that women have) and the breasts on women...for everything else they are equal in my eyes (and worth as much as the other...I hate discrimination in all shapes and forms)
"I swear I'm the bravest one here, and I'm a woman!" - Warden in DAO before the Joining.
See, that's just the warden commenting on the fact that they are a woman. It's gender specific dialogue in the same way npcs commenting on your gender/flirting with you differently is gender specific dialogue (something I'm in favour of). The decision made by the female warden in this scenario is no different than the males and though they say different things, the sentiment is the same. Besides, the complaint was that there were things said by female/male characters that were not in line with what females/males would say, and this quote is something that is.
I feel like what the OP was getting at is that he wants protagonists to say and feel things differently based on gender. Things that fit in with the often incorrect generalizations that can be made about either gender - that sort of, "women are feelers/men are thinkers" mindset that many people have. In the quote above both gender of wardens have the option to be brave, but someone thinking in terms of gendered stereotypes might think it more "realistic" for the male warden to be brave but for the female warden to look to her male companions for protection or something like that.
"I swear I'm the bravest one here, and I'm a woman!" - Warden in DAO before the Joining.
Yeah, I never chose that dialogue for a female Warden, but that was the token gender option. To be honest, it seemed a bit sexist, to me. Like "I'm so brave *despite* being a women!". Well, congrats, you just made it sound like most women aren't ever brave, but you're *special*. (Edit: Sorry, if that sounded a bit aggressive. I did not mean it to.)
The sad thing? If you go solely by the conversation at the Joining, it's true.
I don't find it sad beyond the fact that Duncan killed Jory for being cowardly, because it was sad that Jory died without even trying to undergo the Joining. The main character in a video game was braver than the temporary companion characters, who'd guess? Why should it be so special that she's a woman? Women can be brave.
On a more positive note: I sorta like the sex-specific dialogue that is available after Shale is revealed to have been a female dwarf. I was playing a female character and loved the whole line, "Now, let us crush something soft and watch it fountain blood. That is a girlish thing to want to do, yes?" not sure that's specific to either sex, though, or just something Shale says regardless, but I thought that was great 
The sad thing is that the way she says it indicates that women aren't supposed to be brave, that it's surprising for her, a woman, to be the bravest. Ugh. I don't recall any other lines like this though.
I guess interpretation is everything, because that's not the way it reads to me. This is the problem with a silent protagonist though, because I take that line to be calling them cowards, not claiming that it's rare for women to be brave.
See, I find a line like that insulting to both genders. It suggests that if men are not brave, they are not masculine enough. If a woman is braver than them, then that is an insult to their manhood. But that only works as an insult if you assume that women are not normally braver than men, or that not being manly is a terrible thing.
I have a problem with the idea that men cannot be scared, just as I have a problem with the idea that women cannot be brave. It sets up masculinity as something that is tied intrinsically with strength, femininity with weakness. It leaves no room for the former to express emotion or doubt, and makes the latter constantly have to prove herself equal to (or better than) her male peers.
And yet, I think Jory has every good reason to be terrified of dying. He has a family waiting for him back home that he thought he'd have a good chance of seeing again. Conversely, depending on her origin, the Warden is likely either already dying of the taint, or fleeing a life-or-death situation anyway, so of course she'd have a slightly altered view of her possibly imminent death.
A way better version of that line might be, "I'm braver than all of you and I'm half your size." Which is likely, considering every female build in Origins is shorter than the human male build.
That's why the normal walk shouldn't be "like a thug" it should be a normal, natural walk like you would see someone walking down the street with. A neutral walk will look normal in any situation
I disagree, have you seen women of shape (muscular or otherwise,) who view themselves as more than average walk? I can promise you if they are conscious of it, it isn't a neutral walk. like the poster said, if she is walking arounding in formal attire, at a social gathering she isn't trying to be neutral. No one in the history of modern man i think has ever walked neutrally if they were the center of attention or wanted to be.
On a related note, maybe women can have a different fighting style then men. Maybe they are more agile and more focused on stabbing and dodging enemy blows rather than using brute force. Given the fact that the average woman is less physically strong than a man it would be silly for the female players to fight like a man, especially against men.
My quizzys aren't noble either. Warrior is as close to soldier as it gets, so it makes no sense for them to sway hips. I wouldn't want that to my mages or rogues either.
You are aware that it was generally the noble houses that made up for the best warriors in many of these medieval like games right? They had the finest tutors in social interaction as well as warfare, so if indeed a female noble was allowed to participate in sword fighting and all things war related, why would she also not be learned in social etiquette, including proper posture and refined walking, these were all common signs of noble birth and proper upbringing. I'm not saying Femquisitor needs to have a pedigree but if she is going to try and persuade kings and queens, lords and ladies with more than just brute force she needs to be able to interact with them just as they interact amongst themselves. This isn't some new sexist thing, it's almost as central to the feel of the game and the time period they are mimicking as capturing the weight of heavy weapons, the proper way to hold bows and draw their strings.
It's funny that you posted this because i had just gone to youtube for the very same reason and saw the same video. While her walk isn't neutral, it's still a fairly common sight amongst women, usually those with at least a bit of self confidence, it's not because they view themselves as pressy, or weak, it's just a part of their allure as women, nothing more need be implied, not weakness not stupidity, just "I am a woman and I celebrate that strength with my movements as well as my posture."
On a related note, maybe women can have a different fighting style then men. Maybe they are more agile and more focused on stabbing and dodging enemy blows rather than using brute force. Given the fact that the average woman is less physically strong than a man it would be silly for the female players to fight like a man, especially against men.
The characters in these games are never average and this is fantasy. That sounds like trying to make all female warriors closer to rogues. I'm against the idea of nerfing female characters' strength stats especially, because "they aren't as strong as men". I'm sure people wouldn't appreciate having to play a male to get the most strong attacking style. Also, there'd probably be a bigger strength difference between the qunari and the other races than between the sexes, I think. I don't like that idea one bit. Just my opinion.
On a related note, maybe women can have a different fighting style then men. Maybe they are more agile and more focused on stabbing and dodging enemy blows rather than using brute force. Given the fact that the average woman is less physically strong than a man it would be silly for the female players to fight like a man, especially against men.
Well im not for or against this, a female warrior like Cassandra who in this world fights dragons, is indeed physically stronger than the average guy, so her fighting style can easily mimic any other guys, however she doesn't use a two handed sword either, but we aren't given that impression that she couldn't grab one and slam it through a dragons skull on brute strength alone. Still in general when it comes to melee weapon fighting, it's usually the type of weapon one wields that determines how best to use it, not their sex. A woman using a greatsword would still have the same options as a man using it, so long as she is strong enough to wield it with the same strength as a man. Same stands true if a man is more agile than strong and uses daggers or a rapier with finesse as oppose to strength, same as any woman of similar build would do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Alistair say why females were lacking in Grey Wardens? I remember him talking about it cause they would be dragged into deep roads and turned into brood mothers. Now, I definitely not against women doing anything, just thought I remember hearing that mentioned in game. I haven't played it in quite awhile and going to be playing new wardens soon to refresh my memory of things.
It can be bad, someone saying, I'm a woman and I'm bravest one, I see the point. I also know its used by men and women in real life around me at times. Her comment to intentionally demean him. I heard it, and it was made to be rude. This could be the same to me as being mean to them on purpose. I wont say that it could of been said differently though. But I know from experience its intentional rudeness.
The characters in these games are never average and this is fantasy. That sounds like trying to make all female warriors closer to rogues. I'm against the idea of nerfing female characters' strength stats, especially, because "they aren't as strong as men". I'm sure people wouldn't appreciate having to play a male to get the most strong attacking style. Also, there'd probably be a bigger strength difference between the qunari and the other races than between the sexes, I think. I don't like that idea one bit. Just my opinion.
Maybe we should be given a choice on what types of female character we want to play. There should be more customization on walking and fighting style. If you, for example want to play a very feminized character who actually fights like a woman, you should be allowed to make one like it. For these types of characters their attacks might be more accurate and do more damage because they are more agile and focus on more vital parts of the body. Like real world self defense courses teach women to do the same thing rather than fighting brut force with forcce. On the other hand, if you want to be like, say Brienne of Tarth on ASOIF, a muscular woman who acts like a man and fights like a man, you should be given the choice of making such a character too.
Maybe we should be given a choice on what types of female character we want to play. There should be more customization on walking and fighting style. If you, for example want to play a very feminized character who actually fights like a woman, you should be allowed to make one like it. For these types of characters their attacks might be more accurate and do more damage because they are more agile and focus on more vital parts of the body. Like real world self defense courses teach women to do the same thing rather than fighting brut force with forcce. On the other hand, if you want to be like, say Brienne of Tarth on ASOIF, a muscular woman who acts like a man and fights like a man, you should be given the choice of making such a character too.
But the game already gives us the option of playing as a warrior, rogue, or mage. It doesn't need to give us a chance to "fight like a woman." If you want to play someone who is about agility and accuracy, play a rogue. Those traits are not gender-specific, nor should they be.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Alistair say why females were lacking in Grey Wardens? I remember him talking about it cause they would be dragged into deep roads and turned into brood mothers. Now, I definitely not against women doing anything, just thought I remember hearing that mentioned in game. I haven't played it in quite awhile and going to be playing new wardens soon to refresh my memory of things.
It can be bad, someone saying, I'm a woman and I'm bravest one, I see the point. I also know its used by men and women in real life around me at times. Her comment to intentionally demean him. I heard it, and it was made to be rude. This could be the same to me as being mean to them on purpose. I wont say that it could of been said differently though. But I know from experience its intentional rudeness.
This makes no sense. Grey Wardens are immune to the taint; they couldn't be transformed into broodmothers. And Alistair actually says that he wonders why there aren't more women in the Grey Wardens.
As for the rest... I'm a mage and an elf; I don't really care about animation issues.
This is how I see a lot of people that ask for gender attention.
I think that's part of the humour, sure. (see also, Daffyd, the only Gay in the Village) People can get militant about their gender identity, especially while they are coming to terms with it (or not coming to terms with it, in the case of Republican politicians who claim to be staunchly anti-gay and then are caught "adopting a wide stance" in public toilets).
But the other, much larger, part is that it deliberately plays into silly ideas about what it is to be female or feminine, how it differs from being male, how much of gender is artifice anyhow and so on. Having the Inquisitor ponce about like Emily would be inappropriate in a character of either gender. Worrying about sitting with your legs crossed and your ankles together ceases to be an issue when you're wearing full plate. And I'm pretty sure setting people on fire is not ladylike at any time, and carrying a parasol to protect your delicate skin from the glare of your burning undead victims won't help.
At the end of the day, the title of this thread seemed to need a dose of Emily, is all.
I disagree, have you seen women of shape (muscular or otherwise,) who view themselves as more than average walk? I can promise you if they are conscious of it, it isn't a neutral walk. like the poster said, if she is walking arounding in formal attire, at a social gathering she isn't trying to be neutral. No one in the history of modern man i think has ever walked neutrally if they were the center of attention or wanted to be.
If this is how you think the FemInquisitor should walk then you're implying an awful lot about how all of the women in Dragon Age want to move through the world here...
I guess interpretation is everything, because that's not the way it reads to me. This is the problem with a silent protagonist though, because I take that line to be calling them cowards, not claiming that it's rare for women to be brave.
Wot Lady Nuggins sed.
"I swear I'm the bravest one here, and I'm a woman"
The only way this sentence makes sense as a rebuke is if you accept the subtext that women aren't usually braver than men, so the situation is remarkable. Men aren't supposed to be scared, or express it, even when they have bloody good cause, and if they do, your insult their masculinity by telling them a mere girl (supposedly inferior in the bravery stakes) is better than them.
I think that's part of the humour, sure. (see also, Daffyd, the only Gay in the Village) People can get militant about their gender identity, especially while they are coming to terms with it (or not coming to terms with it, in the case of Republican politicians who claim to be staunchly anti-gay and then are caught "adopting a wide stance" in public toilets).
But the other, much larger, part is that it deliberately plays into silly ideas about what it is to be female or feminine, how it differs from being male, how much of gender is artifice anyhow and so on. Having the Inquisitor ponce about like Emily would be inappropriate in a character of either gender. Worrying about sitting with your legs crossed and your ankles together ceases to be an issue when you're wearing full plate. And I'm pretty sure setting people on fire is not ladylike at any time, and carrying a parasol to protect your delicate skin from the glare of your burning undead victims won't help.
At the end of the day, the title of this thread seemed to need a dose of Emily, is all.
It would be wrong to say that you can't be feminine and a warrior at the same time. Maybe some female players want to be both. Plus, Bioware has given us different types of female MP voices before on DAO. Some are more "girly" and feminine than others. Maybe it should give more options for people who want to walk more feminine as well. I'm not saying that all female MP characters should be forced to prance around like Emily, but those who want the option to walk in a more feminine should be given it in a customization.
You are aware that it was generally the noble houses that made up for the best warriors in many of these medieval like games right? They had the finest tutors in social interaction as well as warfare, so if indeed a female noble was allowed to participate in sword fighting and all things war related, why would she also not be learned in social etiquette, including proper posture and refined walking, these were all common signs of noble birth and proper upbringing. I'm not saying Femquisitor needs to have a pedigree but if she is going to try and persuade kings and queens, lords and ladies with more than just brute force she needs to be able to interact with them just as they interact amongst themselves. This isn't some new sexist thing, it's almost as central to the feel of the game and the time period they are mimicking as capturing the weight of heavy weapons, the proper way to hold bows and draw their strings.
Problem with this argument is that we have 4 possible races/origins, and one of those is a Dalish elf (which, so far as we've seen, don't have anything resembling nobility). The human or dwarf Inquisitor might wind up being nobles, but elf and qunari almost definitely won't be.
@Xilizhra
Thanks, I knew I had it wrong. 
Reason I asked, I couldn't really remember and most likely mixed more than one conversation there.
There are more in DA2, which I was glad to see.
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