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[a_mouse]

Hi all. I've been trying to come up with a systematic way to gimp builds in Insanity SP ME3 to make it more "ME2-like" in challenge.  The idea is to have some standardized system that anyone can use, and that everyone else will know what they are talking about.  

 

One idea is an "Extended ME2" version of ME3.  My current working definition of it is:

 

Rule #1) No powers that were not part of ME2.  This excludes all the "grenade" powers (Cluster Grenade, Sentry Turret, Sticky Grenade, Lift Grenade, Frag Grenade, and Nova).

 

Rule #2a) Builds can use no more than 127 points total. This corresponds to fully-leveled passive and fitness, four fully leveled powers + one extra point. This forces a similar level of economic decision making as required in ME2, but allows powers to reach full rank.  

 

More restrictive alternatives to Rule 2 would be:

 

Rule #2b) Builds can use no more than 61 points total. This is the equivalent of level 4 passive + level 4 fitness + four level-4 powers + one extra point (same as level 30 in ME2 except 10 extra points to fill both fitness and class passive). This rule achieves a similar overall skill level as ME2, but allows points to to be reassigned from one power to another to maximize particular powers up to rank 6.

 

Rule #2c) Builds can use no more than 61 points total with a rank cap of 4 for all powers. This is similar to Rule 2b, but prevents reassigning points from one skill to another to achieve any power ranks greater than 4.  

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Vigilant111]

Hmm, if you exclude grenades, how do you do crowd control effectively? IIRC area (insert skill) can only be obtained through level 5 & 6 upgrades, you need something to substitute "heavy" and "area"

 

I feel that the weapons in ME2 are more powerful, take the Viper for instance, it has a much quicker fire rate than its ME3 counterpart, so you have to factor in inferior weapons in ME3

 

You could also make things more difficult by adding more weight, like bringing a Claymore or Widow, one of the things with ME2 is the slow recharging time for more destructive powers

 

Other things that can make ME3 more difficult by refraining from using power combos, stop doing combat rolls...

 

Personally I think ME3 insanity has its own merits, it is just that difficulty is skewed across targets, things like banshees and geth prime make it quite challenging at times but most other times you just cruise through; whereas in ME2, difficulty is more uniform across targets, they are all tough and mindless (they keep breaching your defense lines) so you have to play strategically

[RedCaesar97]

Just some open thoughts on your ideas:

 

Rule 1)

Probably not that big of a deal.

 

Of the new class-exclusive powers, Lift/Cluster/Sticky/Frag Grenade are pretty limited in utility considering how scarce grenade pickups are on most missions, plus how many powers you get overall.

 

Sentry Turret is unique but pretty lackluster when compared to overall utility of the Engineer's other powers

 

Nova is probably the most useful of all the new powers and is especially potent when combined with Charge (and any priming power). It would be the most missed out of all the new class-exclusive powers, but the Vanguard is still very good without it.

 

Bonus powers that cannot be used with this rule: Carnage, Proximity Mine, Lash, Dark Channel, Marksman, Decoy, Flare, Defense Drone. (And Defense Matrix if you insist that it cannot be used since it is no longer called 'Geth Shield Boost'). Of those, you would probably only miss Lash and Proxy Mine, and you could substitute Slam for Lash and only miss the shield-bypass aspect. 

 

Rule 2a)

Since most builds will only use 3 active powers at most (plus maybe one passive power like an ammo power or Fortification/Barrier/Defense Matrix) this rule does not hinder anything. 

 

Rule 2b and Rule 2c)

These two rules sort of go hand-in hand. You need 21 points to max a power/passive. So you need 63 points to max three powers. With Rule 2b, a limit of 61 will prevent you from maxing 1 power, so you could drop one of them to rank 5 and put the extra points into your passive. This should be enough for most classes without sacrificing too much.

 

But if you want more powers, then you are probably going to have to drop them to rank 4 like Rule 2c imposes. Now this hurts some powers more than others. For example, Sabotage becomes less useful with rank 6 Tech Vulnerability but Reave still gets a radius at rank 4. Incinerate was never all that good to begin with on its own, while Overload may or may not be able to strip shields (or specifically Phantom barriers) without really piling on the damage since you miss out on the big multipliers.

 

Some classes may or may not be as hurt by this rule. Infiltrator may lose the one-shot sniper kill ability, but that was a specialized build anyway, and can still get +100% weapon and power damage from Tactical Cloak and passive. Engineer may get hit the hardest by this rule. The class can still hold its own (it is ME3 gameplay after all).

 

 

Some final thoughts)

Ultimately, Rule 2c is probably the best rule for an "Extended ME2" idea. You can still exploit the combo mechanics without too much punishment. Tactical Cloak is still overpowered. 

 

You still have access to weapons new to ME3, including some overpowered DLC weapons. You could limit yourself to ME2 weapons only, and optionally ME2 weapons restrictions for additional continuity.

[RedCaesar97]

Hmm, if you exclude grenades, how do you do crowd control effectively? IIRC area (insert skill) can only be obtained through level 5 & 6 upgrades, you need something to substitute "heavy" and "area"

 

Who uses grenades for crowd-control in the single player campaign? Every class has other powers that can fulfill that roll with more reliability.

 

Most radius evolutions can be obtained at rank 4 of a power, such as Pull, Reave, Throw, Incinerate, Concussive Shot, Cryo Blast, Energy Drain to name a few. Overload has two Chain Overload evolutions, one at rank 4 and another at rank 6.

[capn233]

It's pretty difficult to make the game more ME2 like if you can't edit the game files.

 

One of the things you could do is avoid any weapons with cover penetration, or the piercing mods.  The downside is that you will lose armor piercing (the mechanic) and will need to debuff with armor weakening powers like Warp and Cryo, or run those respective ammos.  This would also mean AP ammo is out, even though it was a bonus power in ME2 (it does have a 50% cover penetration penalty in SP, but still it is better than no penetration).

 

You could restrict yourself only to weapons from ME2.  Most of them were depowered in ME3, especially the Shuriken, Revenant, and to some extent Viper (although Viper was rebuffed and is good for priming).  Also consider leaving weapons at level 1 for higher weight penalties.

 

As far as point investment goes, due to the combo system you can largely get away with only a couple powers.  Keeping things at Rank 4 only is an idea.  Basically though what you will end up with is a character that proceeds somewhat normally through the early game, but plateaus before or around mid-game.  Don't know if that is what you want.

 

Anyway it is sad you can't edit the game files on xbox.  You can change a whole 3 or 4 numbers in coalesced and make a pretty substantial difference.

[RedCaesar97]

Anyway it is sad you can't edit the game files on xbox.  You can change a whole 3 or 4 numbers in coalesced and make a pretty substantial difference.

 

It's the price we console peasants pay for playing on the inferior system.