202 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Not everything they say is necessarily "Word of God". Perhaps it's just me, but I'd take a direct response to fans on this forum over a silly comment on a panel that was more likely used for humor. It's not really worth taking too seriously.

[Daemul]

I have no idea why people have a problem with the breath scene being ambiguous, all that means is that every interpretation is valid, not that your interpretation is wrong. Nothing is stopping you from believing that Shepard survived, validation from others is not needed. 

[Jukaga]

What dream said. Not what iakus said. It's a lot better than the hopeless and bleak Earth sequence. Granted, the Earth sequence was terrible for many reasons.

The worst offender is the pointless turret sequence at the fire base. Even now when I replay priority: earth that part depresses me.

[dreamgazer]

I don't think Earth is nearly as bad as some of its most vocal detractors do, but: 1) that turret sequence needed to go; and 2) war assets, similar to assigning forces in DA:O's finale, should have been options to assist in the push towards the Conduit v2.0 for a taste of variation. 

[fhs33721]

And if an actual developer ever came in and started chatting up the forum-goers, I'd be as civil and polite as anyone could hope for.  Because it's common courtesy.

 

And to answer your question:  such scenes are typically meant for the monster in the story, proving the creature that was supposed to be slain can return, and the hero didn't quite do the job right.

 

The hero typically gets an Unflinching Walk, Outrun the Fireball, No One Gets Left Behind, or even a Waking Up Elsewhere

 

What we got smacks more of Buried Alive

While those scenes are indeed often used on monsters or villains they are equally often used for heros (often in combination with supporting characters screaming "don't leave me now" at them at first or villains gloating over their lifeless form). And even if it only applied to villains that wouldn't change anything because the fact that making a breath/movement means survival in fictional works would still be undisputed.

Also Shepard is an undestructible force of death that slaughters entire platoons of enemies singlehandedly without getting a scratch and can withstand even beams from Reapers (you know the tipical advantages of being the main character of a videogame). So s/he could easily be defined as monster by normal, mortal people.

[Daemul]

Priority:Earth is the best Priority mission in the game imo, the rest of them are either way too short gameplay wise(I'm looking at you Tuchanka) or boring(Geth Dreadnought and Rannoch). 

[SwobyJ]

The original ME3 ending may have been more 'hey, imagine it yourself!', but Extended Cut's tone, character actions, and music during the breath scene all but outright state 'Shepard makes it'. By 'making it', I mean getting out of the rubble to live on the 'Earth' with his friends, loves, allies. Bioware isn't going to put him in a tomb to die out in with that breath scene - only with Vaporize/Low/High (and with those, he's not taking his breath, but just dead).

 

I mean really. Really. Come on.

[Mathias]

It's not being disregarded. It's being placed in the proper perspective. You can feel however strongly you want about a work, but the "NO JOKES ALLOWED" "be sensitive to my emotional needs" stuff just makes me scratch my head.

 

Nobody said "No Jokes Allowed". It's not a question of can you, but should you. For this particular subject I feel like he shouldn't have made that joke, especially given the negative reaction from players.

[Mathias]

Priority:Earth is the best Priority mission in the game imo, the rest of them are either way too short gameplay wise(I'm looking at you Tuchanka) or boring(Geth Dreadnought and Rannoch). 

 

I could not disagree more with that. The mission was pretty lame and felt more like a Gears of War level. They completely dropped the ball by not including your war assets in the battle for variation and flavor. A lot of people think it should've been like the suicide mission but on a galactic scale, and I agree. That entire mission really drove it home that ME3 was most likely rushed. The game needed nearly 3 years of development to reach it's true potential.

[CronoDragoon]

Nobody said "No Jokes Allowed". It's not a question of can you, but should you. For this particular subject I feel like he shouldn't have made that joke, especially given the negative reaction from players.

 

So he should mold his response so as not to anger the hysterical hyperbolizing victim complex players. I suppose you are right, for whatever that is worth.

[Iakus]

I have no idea why people have a problem with the breath scene being ambiguous, all that means is that every interpretation is valid, not that your interpretation is wrong. Nothing is stopping you from believing that Shepard survived, validation from others is not needed. 

 

SO where's the "interpretation" in Control or Synthesis?  Why does only one ending get the "interpretive" treatment rather than all?

[Iakus]

How so? One was an official, structured comment from a BioWare community manager.  The other was quite clearly said in jest and laughed off.

 

Because said just was later backed up by others

[Iakus]

They may have realized there were indeed people who wanted Shep to be dead in Destroy. Still, the Tully post explains the rationale behind the Destroy memorial scene, which is more than enough evidence for me.

 

And there were those who wanted Shep to live through Control or Synthesis.  Again, why does Destroy have to share, but the others don't?

[CronoDragoon]

And there were those who wanted Shep to live through Control or Synthesis.  Again, why does Destroy have to share, but the others don't?

 

I don't see the relevance of Synthesis and Control to my response, which was answering why BioWare might have wanted to preserve the ambiguous nature of Destroy. The reason this wasn't done in Synthesis or Control is obvious: they are clearly dead.

[Iakus]

I don't see the relevance of Synthesis and Control to my response, which was answering why BioWare might have wanted to preserve the ambiguous nature of Destroy. The reason this wasn't done in Synthesis or Control is obvious: they are clearly dead.

 

That is my opint.

 

Why does Destroy have to be ambiguous?

[CronoDragoon]

That is my opint.

 

Why does Destroy have to be ambiguous?

 

It doesn't have to be. But it is (to some people. it's clearly not to me and others). Why do all three have to be ambiguous if one is?

[Iakus]

It doesn't have to be. But it is (to some people. it's clearly not to me and others). Why do all three have to be ambiguous if one is?

 

Because "Some people want Shepard to die in Destroy" is not an excuse.  Any more than "Some people wanted Shepard to live in Control/Synthesis" (and yes, there are people who do wish that)  People wanted SHepard to die.  People wanted Shepard to live.  One was grossly more catered to than the other.

 

So, again, why do we get Shepard dying in every single ending, up to and including the best possible Blue and Green endings.  And we don't get a single definitive "Shepard lives ending" anywhere?  The closest one we get is deliberately ambiguous.

[dreamgazer]

Because said just was later backed up by others

In the face of a direct explanation of the sequence's intentions, one that's easily referenced.

In short, the community managers were placating the Debbie Downers, and in a far-less official capacity than Tully's rundown.

[Iakus]

In the face of a direct explanation of the sequence's intentions, one that's easily referenced.

In short, the community managers were placating the Debbie Downers, and in a far-less official capacity than Tully's rundown.

 

So it's being a Debbie Downer to point out (accurately) that there's like half a dozen different ways to watch Shepard burn to death, but not a single one showing Shepard getting off the Citadel alive?

[AlanC9]

Don't you mean a quarter-dozen? I'd say a third of a dozen, but we don't actually see Shepard die in Refuse.

[dreamgazer]

So it's being a Debbie Downer to point out (accurately) that there's like half a dozen different ways to watch Shepard burn to death, but not a single one showing Shepard getting off the Citadel alive?

Pretty much, yeah, considering the fact that you're overlooking the purpose behind Shepard's sacrifice in the other endings.

[Steelcan]

So it's being a Debbie Downer to point out (accurately) that there's like half a dozen different ways to watch Shepard burn to death, but not a single one showing Shepard getting off the Citadel alive?

yes, if they wanted to show him dead in all endings they would.

 

His survival is all but screamed at the player in High EMS Destroy

[SwobyJ]

SO where's the "interpretation" in Control or Synthesis?  Why does only one ending get the "interpretive" treatment rather than all?

 

There is interpretation in all endings.

 

For Control, you must interpret what it means for the galactic society.

 

For Synthesis, you must interpret what it means for the galaxy and universe.

 

Destroy is just more personal. When Shepard outright dies, you only interpret how safe your friends/allies/loves will be. The Breath scene adds more to interpret - the fate of Shepard.

[Iakus]

Don't you mean a quarter-dozen? I'd say a third of a dozen, but we don't actually see Shepard die in Refuse.

Synthesis

Low EMS Control

High EMS Control

Low EMS Destroy

Medium EMS Destroy

High EMS Destroy <3100 EMS

 

I deliberately left out the Troll Ending, since, as you pointed out, we don't actually see Shepard die.

[Iakus]

yes, if they wanted to show him dead in all endings they would.

 

His survival is all but screamed at the player in High EMS Destroy

 

Actually they did want to show Shepard dead in all endings.  The breath scene was simply an Easter Egg that took on a life of its own because Bioware so misread their audience.  It was all those who wanted Shepard to live could cling to.

 

And I think it's pretty clear at this point that a charred torso alone in a pile of rubble doesn't "scream" loud enough.