202 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

And I think it's pretty clear at this point that a charred torso alone in a pile of rubble doesn't "scream" loud enough.  

 

And I think it's pretty clear that you're in the corner with your fingers in your ears, eyes squeezed shut and screaming 'it's not loud enough!' Seriously you have to be intentionally missing the point to not see it. Should there have been more? Yes. But with what we got, is it clear that Shepard is alive (comparing what slides you got to other endings) in the end? Absolutely.

[Iakus]

And I think it's pretty clear that you're in the corner with your fingers in your ears, eyes squeezed shut and screaming 'it's not loud enough!' Seriously you have to be intentionally missing the point to not see it. Should there have been more? Yes. But with what we got, is it clear that Shepard is alive (comparing what slides you got to other endings) in the end? Absolutely.

 

 

The point I see is several devs saying "it's up for interpretation" completely undermines any point to the scene.

 

But yes, there should have been more.  The fact that a single "joke" causing this much uproar so long after the fact makes that demonstrably true.

[dreamgazer]

The point I see is several devs saying "it's up for interpretation" completely undermines any point to the scene.

 

But yes, there should have been more.  The fact that a single "joke" causing this much uproar so long after the fact makes that demonstrably true.

 

You're aggrandizing the "uproar" towards Hepler's jest, by a wide margin.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You're aggrandizing the "uproar" towards Epler's jest, by a wide margin.

 

Granted, I think the guy who made the joke probably should have been a bit more sensitive for his own benefit. BW were on some pretty thin ice at the time in the PR department, and I can't help but see his statement as a thoughtless, if not mean-spirited, jib.

[Han Shot First]

 

 

All I can think of is that's either some kind of cruel wink by the writing team, or that they're really THAT naive. I mean this was well after a year since the vanilla ending, they had to have known a lot of fans were pissed that there wasn't one ending where Shep could survive. 

 

There is an ending where Shepard survives.

 

Shepard survives in High EMS Destroy.

[dreamgazer]

Granted, I think the guy who made the joke probably should have been a bit more sensitive for his own benefit. BW were on some pretty thin ice at the time in the PR department, and I can't help but see his statement as a thoughtless, if not mean-spirited, jib.

 

I don't disagree, but that doesn't change his comment's intention and it doesn't supersede Ackland's official posting about the twenty-second clip. 

[Iakus]

There is an ending where Shepard survives.

 

Shepard survives in High EMS Destroy.

 

Bioware graciously allows you to interpret the scene that way, yes.

[Han Shot First]

Bioware graciously allows you to interpret the scene that way, yes.

 

I think that was their intent when they crafted the scene.

 

Consider that it is only High EMS Destroy where the breath scene triggers. If Shepard dies in all versions of the ending, why include a breath scene for only one of them? Why doesn't it trigger with Low EMS Destroy for example? Also with the Extended Cut installed High EMS Destroy gets a slightly different version of the Memorial scene, where the LI hesitates putting Shepard's name on the wall, and gives a slight smile without ever pinning it. if Shepard died in all endings why would there be different and more hopeful version of the Memorial scene, that also happens to be attached to the only ending where the breath scene triggers? Also if you dig into the game files the file names for two different versions of the breath scene are named something like "Shepard_Alive_Male" and "Shepard_Alive_Female."

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Bioware graciously allows you to interpret the scene that way, yes.

 

It's more than a gracious allowance. That was the sole intent of that scene. I will stand with you and say that it was definitely a lacking scene, but I'll stand against you when you try to question the intent or legitimacy of it.

[Steelcan]

Bioware graciously allows you to interpret the scene that way, yes.

Any other interpretation is much less sensible

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Any other interpretation is much less sensible

 

There is no other interpretation. I don't think it was Hepler who said it (I think it was Priestly who did) but the statement that it might be Shepard's dying breath was a poor jib in the name of comedy if it was. As I said though, Priestly was the one who said it (I'm pretty sure), and he's the guy who is rather... spiteful of the fans. But even if it was him, he has nothing to do with the story making processes and him saying that was him clearly trying to ****** people off.

[SwobyJ]

Iakus insisting with this stuff just looks ridiculous.

He lived. In what way, in what form, at what time, or whatever - that's the real interpretation factor. We can believe that he dug his way out with fierce determination (as hinted by lines earlier in the game), or we can believe that he was helped out of the rubble by his friends/allies/loves/henchmen (as also hinted by lines earlier in the game). Or both. Or neither.

 

We can believe that he still has enough cybernetic upgrades to be put together quickly, or we can believe that he's actually a scarred and wrecked man who will eventually die but be heavily memorialized by the galaxy. We can believe that he'll need a Lazarus Project 2.0, or that he'll be 'fully' human again.

 

We can believe that he'll go off into the stars for more adventure, or settle down and live a peaceful retirement.

 

We can believe that he'll take up more of a public leadership role in the galaxy, or keep things small and to only his close relations.

But I'm getting a bit annoyed that the discussion isn't about *how* he got out and what he does after getting out, but whether he lived and got out at all. It was a breath scene. He lived. Even if just enough to get out of that rubble and say goodbye again to the galaxy before collapsing.

[Mordokai]

Iakus insisting with this stuff just looks ridiculous.

He lived. In what way, in what form, at what time, or whatever - that's the real interpretation factor. We can believe that he dug his way out with fierce determination (as hinted by lines earlier in the game), or we can believe that he was helped out of the rubble by his friends/allies/loves/henchmen (as also hinted by lines earlier in the game). Or both. Or neither.

 

Ok, I honestly can't remember where that was hinted. I may have some clues to it, but it's just wild guessing.

 

Mind refreshing my memory?

[Han Shot First]

There is no other interpretation. I don't think it was Hepler who said it (I think it was Priestly who did) but the statement that it might be Shepard's dying breath was a poor jib in the name of comedy if it was. As I said though, Priestly was the one who said it (I'm pretty sure), and he's the guy who is rather... spiteful of the fans. But even if it was him, he has nothing to do with the story making processes and him saying that was him clearly trying to ****** people off.

 

Also that statement was contradicted by Tully Ackland, who said the breath scene was intended to show that Shepard was alive. So at worst the two contradictory statements by Bioware employees cancel each other out and you're just left with the content. And the content itself heavily implies survival.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Also that statement was contradicted by Tully Ackland, who said the breath scene was intended to show that Shepard was alive. So at worst the two contradictory statements by Bioware employees cancel each other out and your just left with the content. And the content itself heavily implies survival.

 

Indeed, in which case it just comes down to looking at what it is. I'll be the first to say that they could have done a more impressive job depicting survival.

[CronoDragoon]

But I'm getting a bit annoyed that the discussion isn't about *how* he got out and what he does after getting out, but whether he lived and got out at all. It was a breath scene. He lived. Even if just enough to get out of that rubble and say goodbye again to the galaxy before collapsing.

I'm much more sympathetic to HYR 2.0's troll argument that Shepard - having had his synthetic implants fried - will be an invalid post-Destroy, at least until the money can be drummed up for replacement implants, than I am Shepard is dead.

[SwobyJ]

Ok, I honestly can't remember where that was hinted. I may have some clues to it, but it's just wild guessing.

 

Mind refreshing my memory?

 

Conversations like with Eve hint at Shepard digging himself out.

 

The whole Citadel DLC is one big 'we'll help you out of the rubble' pack.

 

By 'hint', I mean the writers placing messages in their work.

[SwobyJ]

I'm much more sympathetic to HYR 2.0's troll argument that Shepard - having had his synthetic implants fried - will be an invalid post-Destroy, at least until the money can be drummed up for replacement implants, than I am Shepard is dead.

 

I find that a more valid interpretation only if you played a Shepard that passed up medical related upgrades/war-assets throughout the trilogy.

 

It would be justice. lol

[Mordokai]

Conversations like with Eve hint at Shepard digging himself out.

 

The whole Citadel DLC is one big 'we'll help you out of the rubble' pack.

 

By 'hint', I mean the writers placing messages in their work.

 

I get the Citadel, but I've never saw conversation with Eve like that.

 

It's certainly an interesting perspective... thanks for sharing.

[dreamgazer]

The whole Citadel DLC is one big 'we'll help you out of the rubble' pack.

 

Quite literally if you romanced Jack. 

 

 

"Good enough, so that if you're ever hurt, barely breathing, lying under a pile of rubble at the ass end of this war, you're gonna have ..."

 

I get the Citadel, but I've never saw conversation with Eve like that.

 

"You either claw your way out through the rock with your bare hands, or you die."

[Mordokai]

"You either claw your way out through the rock with your bare hands, or you die."

 

I get what he's saying. I'm just saying I never considered it like that and that this perspective is new to me, but I can totally see it.

[SwobyJ]

This stuff is everywhere.

 

I've made this list before, of the most hinted endings. Keep in mind that this is after all DLC is out. There's another list I'd make that would account for only the base game (teaser - it wouldn't have Breath Destroy as #1).

 

1. Breath Destroy

2. High Destroy

3. Low Destroy

4. Vaporize Destroy

5. High Control (not counting Para/Rene differences)

6. Low Control

7. Synthesis

(not counting EC Refuse here)

 

By the way, this doesn't mean that there isn't, say, *any* messaging about Synthesis. It's there. But it's much more optional, and much more niche. It includes things like Genophage Full Cure, Thane Romance, Rannoch Peace, either minimal or many deaths happening, etc. (though it does accomidate both Paragon and Renegade Shepards to a degree)

 

But yeah, after all missions and conversations and DLC are said and done (and I'm mostly counting a ME1-ME2 import with everyone alive and Loyal btw), Breath Destroy is typically the most hinted. It doesn't block off the other endings though, and one is allowed to, say, imagine that ReaperShep makes an avatar to visit everyone or whatever. That'd be headcanon, but an allowed one.

 

 

Personally, this is how I RP now. I have Shepards that I'm planning to detail how I'll 'script' them, and how they'll reach their Control or Synthesis or Destroy or (maybe) Refuse endings. Because the writing is all there, often in ways that aren't consciously noticed by the player.

[SwobyJ]

And yes, Jack is more Destroy oriented. A few traces of Control, but barely. Not really a Synthesis story, for the most part.

[Iakus]

It's more than a gracious allowance. That was the sole intent of that scene. I will stand with you and say that it was definitely a lacking scene, but I'll stand against you when you try to question the intent or legitimacy of it.

 

And if it was just that scene, or just Ackland's statement, I would agree.  It was a poorly done, thoughtlessly shot  scene they couldn't be bothered with improving in EC.  A bad final scene atop a pile of other bad scenes in an overall bad ending.

 

But that "joke" has never been taken back, nor even admitted to being a joke.  And it has in fact been backed up up and reinforced by the words of others.  Makes one wonder if "Shepard definitely lives" went the way of the Dark Energy ending.

[Steelcan]

It did not go the way of Dark Energy, its in the game firmly there, present for anyone to get