282 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well..... 1000 thousand eggs..... and a species that can live for a thousand years.... How "often" will a female Krogan lay eggs?

They are bound to have population issues that's for sure. I think the Salarians would have had a similar problem even if they lived shorter lives and got fewer females. If it wern't for their birthcontrol.

The Salairans arn't nessesarily wrong, but the way it's happening isn't a very good one.

 

The codex says a clutch of up to 1000 eggs per year. I hope they fix the Krogan in the new game. 

[Bardox9]

The codex says a clutch of up to 1000 eggs per year.

 

Yes, but does that mean "up to 1000" in a single... I guess "birthing" is a good word for it... or is it up to 1000 over the course of a year? I can't find a codex or article that gets that specific about these "clutches".

[Excella Gionne]

The codex says a clutch of up to 1000 eggs per year. I hope they fix the Krogan in the new game. 

It's so broken that it's more of an issue than the endings... Krogans look vicious in that video concept of a krogan roaring. I hope they do revise the figure as they look too big and savage-like. The krogans in the trilogy were perfect, but their reproduction concept was destroyed by ignorance. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They were supposed to be over 7' tall and weigh 1 ton when in full armor according to codex so maybe they're going by the original Karpyshyn design.

[Excella Gionne]

They were supposed to be over 7' tall and weigh 1 ton when in full armor according to codex so maybe they're going by the original Karpyshyn design.

Yeah, but they tend to hunch a lot. If they do stand up straight, I think they are much taller.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

They are reptilian bipeds. Most reptiles lay eggs. It would not be a stretch for the Krogan to lay eggs. When the term "clutch" is used several times, it cannot be ignored. EDI is not some random character, either. EDI gets her information from galactic databases. She is not wrong. It is also in the codex. Prior to the genophage they could reproduce and mature at an astonishing rate. This is codex. This is Mass Effect lore. Wake up. You seem determined to anthropomorphise this species. 

 

The ending slides if you do not cure the genophage show a bleak Tuchanka. Tuchanka was bleak to begin with. There were 3.2 billion Krogan living on Tuchanka pre-invasion. Assume the reapers killed 1/4 of them. It doesn't mean extinction of the Krogan. It just means bleak and the status quo. If you cured the genophage, there are Krogan and more Krogan and more Krogan. They are a broken species.  

 

One, what the game shows, doesnt line up with ANYTHING said. And seeing that even the figures thrown around dont agree with each other. EDI's utterly ridiculous and utter lore break of a figure of 1k per clutch per female can not and could NEVER be controlled by anything BUT the Genophage. Even then, just one viable birth out of that figure would allow for a more than healthy and viable population. The only thing that could be done with that figure is to ignore it and throw it in the garbage heap where it belongs

 

The slides from the cure also work against the use of the term clutch, as any Krogan that has had children, only has one with them, implying they dont lay eggs to begin with.

 

You cant accuse me of trying to anthropomorphize them at all. Bioware already did that when they stopped trying to account for any and all consistency to lore to push their own agendas in the story.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

One, what the game shows, doesnt line up with ANYTHING said. And seeing that even the figures thrown around dont agree with each other. EDI's utterly ridiculous and utter lore break of a figure of 1k per clutch per female can not and could NEVER be controlled by anything BUT the Genophage. Even then, just one viable birth out of that figure would allow for a more than healthy and viable population. The only thing that could be done with that figure is to ignore it and throw it in the garbage heap where it belongs

 

The slides from the cure also work against the use of the term clutch, as any Krogan that has had children, only has one with them, implying they dont lay eggs to begin with.

 

You cant accuse me of trying to anthropomorphize them at all. Bioware already did that when they stopped trying to account for any and all consistency to lore to push their own agendas in the story.

 

I can accuse you of head canon. That's what you're doing. It's pure head canon. 

 

What I can agree on is that the slides are part of BWT - bad writing theory. They were hastily done to cover Bioware's collective asses because of the Original Ending to the game. 

 

Did you ever play the Original Ending? There were no slides. All the endings were nearly the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: You died, the mass relays were destroyed, and the Normandy crashed. If you played sufficient multi-player and chose destroy you got the 1/4 second gasp indicating that Shepard lived. You would never see your LI again. The galaxy was a wasteland. 10,000 year dark age. A religion was formed around you. "Tell me another story about The Shepard."

 

I would take the Tuchanka slides as "Yes, now the Krogan can reproduce and they are now happy." Not that "Oh, they give birth like humans." Read the codex, books, and pay attention to what is said in the game. If you don't you're doing a head canon.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I can accuse you of head canon. That's what you're doing. It's pure head canon. 

 

What I can agree on is that the slides are part of BWT - bad writing theory. They were hastily done to cover Bioware's collective asses because of the Original Ending to the game. 

 

Did you ever play the Original Ending? There were no slides. All the endings were nearly the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: You died, the mass relays were destroyed, and the Normandy crashed. If you played sufficient multi-player and chose destroy you got the 1/4 second gasp indicating that Shepard lived. You would never see your LI again. The galaxy was a wasteland. 10,000 year dark age. A religion was formed around you. "Tell me another story about The Shepard."

 

I would take the Tuchanka slides as "Yes, now the Krogan can reproduce and they are now happy." Not that "Oh, they give birth like humans." Read the codex, books, and pay attention to what is said in the game. If you don't you're doing a head canon.

 

You cant have it both ways by accusing me of headcanoning the ending and claiming that its Bioware's fault with BWT. Its one or the other. FYI, I've been  using the ****ed up ending slides to point out that there are 'facts and figures' that must be ignored for any sort of argument around the genophage to make some sort of sense seeing as reproduction is the single most broken thing about Krogan. The Cure Slides are likely one thing that may need throwing out, but EDI's figures are a guaranteed thing that can not be acknowledged, unless you want the Krogan to be such a broken race that they could literally drive every other species in the galaxy to extinction just by breeding alone.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You cant have it both ways by accusing me of headcanoning the ending and claiming that its Bioware's fault with BWT. Its one or the other. FYI, I've been  using the ****ed up ending slides to point out that there are 'facts and figures' that must be ignored for any sort of argument around the genophage to make some sort of sense seeing as reproduction is the single most broken thing about Krogan. The Cure Slides are likely one thing that may need throwing out, but EDI's figures are a guaranteed thing that can not be acknowledged, unless you want the Krogan to be such a broken race that they could literally drive every other species in the galaxy to extinction just by breeding alone.

 I can have it both ways. You are head canoning.

 

But like has been stated: EDI's in ME3 are correct. It is in the CODEX. Mordin's in ME2 are the same. Mordin mentioned that the genophage only stabilized the Krogan population. They even had to adjust it because the Krogan physiology had started adapting to it and population started increasing again. Okeer mentioned the number in ME2. Wrex mentions that the genophage isn't killing the Krogan in ME1 - it's that males would rather kill for credits than stay on Tuchanka and try to make things better. Krogan aren't too smart since their war. 

 

Then there was Garvug, and other planets mentioned IN THE CODEX. The CODEX is LORE. The Krogan could literally drive every other species to extinction just by breeding alone if they had access to space ships. They ARE that broken a species. 

 

The CODEX can be changed only by the writers. We can't change the lore. Sorry. Believe what you want to believe. The writers set up the Krogan species for this, but the astronomical population growth was ridiculous in my opinion. I can't change that. You can't change that. Only Bioware can. Do you understand that?

[themikefest]

The codex says a clutch of up to 1000 eggs per year. I hope they fix the Krogan in the new game. 

One way to fix them is to not have them in the next game.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

One way to fix them is to not have them in the next game.

 

Too late. They were in the trailer.

[themikefest]

Too late. They were in the trailer.

They could be showing something to get our hopes up like they did about ME3 and turn around and we find out its not true.

[Excella Gionne]

All they can do now is fix their history and biology...and reproduction...

[Jukaga]

Two things to note, one of which wasnt from you.

 

1: 1000 eggs per clutch per female is a bogus number. STOP USING IT PEOPLE.

 

 

Sorry, but in-game dialogue from an objective character who literally vomits out facts and data constantly trumps your headcanon. It is an absolute fact with no room for interpretation.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They could be showing something to get our hopes up like they did about ME3 and turn around and we find out its not true.

 

It's actually been confirmed. It's Krogan. Let's hope they fix the reproduction. 

 

Hey, I've got an asspull they could use. Since the genophage cure doesn't really use the same sites as the genophage -- gobbledygook spouted by Mordin -- why not just have it adjust the birth rate but not have it be a "complete cure" because that would be impossible? 

 

Besides, the war didn't last long enough for us to really find out, right?

[I Tsunayoshi I]

 I can have it both ways. You are head canoning.

 

But like has been stated: EDI's in ME3 are correct. It is in the CODEX. Mordin's in ME2 are the same. Mordin mentioned that the genophage only stabilized the Krogan population. They even had to adjust it because the Krogan physiology had started adapting to it and population started increasing again. Okeer mentioned the number in ME2. Wrex mentions that the genophage isn't killing the Krogan in ME1 - it's that males would rather kill for credits than stay on Tuchanka and try to make things better. Krogan aren't too smart since their war. 

 

Then there was Garvug, and other planets mentioned IN THE CODEX. The CODEX is LORE. The Krogan could literally drive every other species to extinction just by breeding alone if they had access to space ships. They ARE that broken a species. 

 

The CODEX can be changed only by the writers. We can't change the lore. Sorry. Believe what you want to believe. The writers set up the Krogan species for this, but the astronomical population growth was ridiculous in my opinion. I can't change that. You can't change that. Only Bioware can. Do you understand that?

 

Wrong on two counts.

 

One, EDI's figure would turn the Krogan into a living plague with no viable options to stop them taking over the entire galaxy. That same figure under the Genophage would allow the Krogan to still grow at an unbelievable rate that would have rendered the need for a cure completely moot. If that figure was legitimate, the entire Genophage arc would have no purpose with no one willing to support a cure. There is no room for debate on this point if you are going to acknowledge EDI's figures as legitimate and canon. Either you claim the Krogan are the ME version of locusts that spread everywhere with no means of stopping them, or you acknowledge that we have been given bad information as a means of a thinly veiled counter to their obviously pushed message with the Genophage story arc. Again, you cant have it both ways since there is NO headcanon involved here. Unless you count the delusion you are operating under to be 'right.'

 

Two, Garvug's codex is written from an in-universe point of view and lacks needed information to make a meta judgment. I've said this before, the player has no knowledge of the size of the family units on Garvug. With Mordin's figure (Also repeating for emphasis his figure was for the species in general and NOT for an individual), that sort of over population would require massive family units. Anything less than that would not be able to ruin a world in such a way.

 

 

Sorry, but in-game dialogue from an objective character who literally vomits out facts and data constantly trumps your headcanon. It is an absolute fact with no room for interpretation.

 

Show me something in game that supports that figure, and I'll change my mind. To my knowledge, everything in game contradicts it in one form or another.

[cap and gown]

I see the Krogan reproduction rate as broken from a sociological perspective: a species that develops a language needs to nuture the young so that they can learn the language. But nurturing 1000 young is impossible simply due to time constraints. So that doesn't work.

 

As far as over population is concerned, however, even a species that only has one child per year, like humans, can quickly overpopulate any world. You don't need a 1000 children per year to reach such a level. The writers at BW are apparently unfamiliar with the concept of exponential growth.

[cap and gown]

Show me something in game that supports that figure, and I'll change my mind. To my knowledge, everything in game contradicts it in one form or another.

 

We have been showing you over and over and over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge it.

[Jukaga]

It's actually been confirmed. It's Krogan. Let's hope they fix the reproduction. 

 

Hey, I've got an asspull they could use. Since the genophage cure doesn't really use the same sites as the genophage -- gobbledygook spouted by Mordin -- why not just have it adjust the birth rate but not have it be a "complete cure" because that would be impossible? 

 

Besides, the war didn't last long enough for us to really find out, right?

That's what I was thinking, Mordin should have had an ace up his sleeve and spread a genophage 'lite' that sets the birthrate to something a tad more sustainable rather than an outright cure to pre-industrial birth rates with ME tech health care that would see most of the Krogan larvae reach maturity.

[Jukaga]

 

Show me something in game that supports that figure, and I'll change my mind. To my knowledge, everything in game contradicts it in one form or another.

I and many others already have, you just refuse to see it through your headcanon fugue.

[Obadiah]

I think the idea from Mordin's point of view was that maintaining the Genophage had become akin to playing God, and though he had specific intentions, the continuing Genophage was having expected consequences.

Thus, it was time to stop and let the Krogan deal with their own problems.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I see the Krogan reproduction rate as broken from a sociological perspective: a species that develops a language needs to nuture the young so that they can learn the language. But nurturing 1000 young is impossible simply due to time constraints. So that doesn't work.

 

As far as over population is concerned, however, even a species that only has one child per year, like humans, can quickly overpopulate any world. You don't need a 1000 children per year to reach such a level. The writers at BW are apparently unfamiliar with the concept of exponential growth.

 

 

As already said, 1000 offspring per clutch per individual would make a race into a plague and force extermination since even 1/1000 would still allow for overwhelming levels of growth.

 

The Krogan are a broken race as it is. EDI's figure makes them into something that no one would ever allow to remain alive.

 

We have been showing you over and over and over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

Humping the sexbot's figure because it came from the sexbot isnt showing me anything besides your ability to reject reality. The figure is not supported by anything shown in game or at any point in the series. You've yet to show ANYTHING to show EDI's figure being supported.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I and many others already have, you just refuse to see it through your headcanon fugue.

 

You've done nothing but go "I'm right and you're wrong, so nyeh!" If you wanna try and be the Adam Savage of an argument, you have to actually have something to support your wild claims. You have nothing but a figure that many already refuse to acknowledge because of its actual implications if it overrode anything else established in the games and established after in ME3.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I see the Krogan reproduction rate as broken from a sociological perspective: a species that develops a language needs to nuture the young so that they can learn the language. But nurturing 1000 young is impossible simply due to time constraints. So that doesn't work.

 

As far as over population is concerned, however, even a species that only has one child per year, like humans, can quickly overpopulate any world. You don't need a 1000 children per year to reach such a level. The writers at BW are apparently unfamiliar with the concept of exponential growth.

 

And they live over 1000 years. 1 in 1000. A clutch of 1000 per year? They overpopulated worlds they were given. I'm assuming that out of the 1000 only a few survive because the strong eat the weak. Still even with only a few per thousand per year.... OUCH. 

 

Mordin's ethics be damned. Unleashing the Krogan on the galaxy after the war at their rate of growth everyone pays the price. They will want world after world. Fake the cure.

 

When I was 8 years old there were 3 billion people on Earth. Today there are over 7 billion. That was only 50 years ago.

[Jukaga]

You've done nothing but go "I'm right and you're wrong, so nyeh!" If you wanna try and be the Adam Savage of an argument, you have to actually have something to support your wild claims. You have nothing but a figure that many already refuse to acknowledge because of its actual implications if it overrode anything else established in the games and established after in ME3.

You have no argument, only what you want the Krogan's lore to be. Every authority on the Krogan in game says the same thing. Pre-industrial it wasn't a problem since most young died well before maturity due to predation and other causes. When they industrialized and got medical care, their population exploded. There was constant warfare, it culminated in a nuclear war. Fast forward, Salarians make contact and the uplift, Rachni war, Krogan victory, Krogan diaspora and surprise! The Krogan are just doing the same thing to their 'bargain worlds', and they want and need more clay. Enter the Rebellions and the Genophage. Have you been paying attention at all?

 

You're just making stuff up and not supporting it with any in game lore. It is you making counter-lore claims, the burden of proof is on you. I have 3 games worth of lore backing my point of view, what do you have friend?